writer crow: expose these guys, or give em credit

[cobbler]

I personally dont belive the Suns obtained Shaq to have a better season record so it too early to tell. If the Suns go all the way and have less troubles with teams that have an inside presence.... then its a sucess. If they lose in the early rounds, Shaq gets hurt or cannot maintain this level (and i will admit i didnt think he had it in him still), or you get killed by lack of perimeter D.... then its not a sucess.

It's all about the playoffs!!!!

 

[az1965]

oh, without a doubt, the Laker trade was one of the greatest robberies in the history of sport, but the question wasn't was one trade better than the other, was it? I thought the question was: Was that Shaq trade a success? That question has nothing to do whether or not it's as good as the Lakers and there's no doubt from seeing the difference in our rebounding, FG% while still scoring the same amount of points and actually beating some good teams that you can say we're not better now than we were with Marion.

I was not comparing with Lakers. That "trade" was a joke. I was comparing more from our financial standpoint. The post I made earlier.

 

[AsUdUdE]

If the suns still had marion(plus shaq), they would be easily the best rebounding team in the NBA and would be the favorite to win the title. it would have been a "better than gasol deal" and the suns would probably have 60+ wins right now.

With Marion on the team.. with Shaq, AMare, Nash, Barbosa.. Marion would have had an anerism by now..... No Way the Suns ever considered keeping Marion with shaq....

 

[nowagimp]

The point is that LAL gave up little (Brown, Crit etc) for Gasol making it a 100% success since Day 1. The only way that trade would have failed was if Gasol would have died in a fiery plane crash just after the NBA filed the trade papers.

Actually the trade would have failed for LA if gasol were to become injured, not able to play, and the Lakers were saddled with his contract. Since gasol has a history of lengthly injury, this is not so far fetched.

 

[cobbler]

Spot on. If your simply talking about the trades then both teams have already reaped benefits. If your reaping benefits and your team is better then before then wouldn't you classify that as good trade? If you start tacking on qualifiers like if you when a title or which team is in better long term shape etc...it's a different topic all together.

The point is that people are not using the same qualifiers when comparing the trades between the teams. I too wish that when people compared trades they would at least apply the same logic to both teams in the same argument.

If you want to use the same qualifiers then you can say as of now, the shaq trade was better than the gasol trade. Heck, Gasol has been oout half the games and Shaq has made a significant impact throughout.

Now with that said, it's the playoffs and where each team finishes that will ultimately determine if the trades were successful.

 

[nowagimp]

I would like some credit....I said it was a VERY good trade for the suns from the beginning and a ton of people on this board laughed at me....

Anyway I can be givin credit as well?? or at the very least mabe after the playoffs, we can go back and call out everyone that was anti-trade... I think that is actually a better idea....

And BTW.. Hollinger is an idiot, Moron, and will never say he was wrong under any circumstance.....

OK, you get the credit. I was not sure even though I knew the suns needed an inside presence. I was for the trade, but I was afraid that shaq might be used up. Even though I was a marion supporter(its all here), I knew they couldnt compete with amare at defensive center, and marion guarding guys like TD, KG, Odom.

 

[AsUdUdE]

OK, you get the credit. I was not sure even though I knew the suns needed an inside presence. I was for the trade, but I was afraid that shaq might be used up. Even though I was a marion supporter(its all here), I knew they couldnt compete with amare at defensive center, and marion guarding guys like TD, KG, Odom.

LOL.. awesome, Thank you I am now fulfilled....

Now.. all we have to do is wait for the Suns to win it all, and then we can start the "ASFN Eat Crow for saying it was a bad trade" Thread.. and we can call out every poster who was a hater....

Unfortuntly.. we can not do this until after the Championship....

 

[elindholm]

Gave up several draft picks to save money that we ended up losing again?

The Suns are still saving money through next season. In fact their salary costs went down with the trade. They'll spend more money in 2009-10, but it's within the ownership's right to decide that money now is worth more than money later.

 

[French Fries]

jime rome! jim rome! he said with emphasis that the suns are done. i believe it's a segment from "jim rome is burning". he so believed in what he was saying, it was funny. sorry, don't know where/how to find it...

 

[devilalum]

So am I. Ive been calling for us to get a center for over a year now. We could have gotten Dalembert and I would have been estactic.

A year?

Wow, you must be young. I've been wanting a center for 40 years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I personally dont belive the Suns obtained Shaq to have a better season record so it too early to tell. If the Suns go all the way and have less troubles with teams that have an inside presence.... then its a sucess. If they lose in the early rounds, Shaq gets hurt or cannot maintain this level (and i will admit i didnt think he had it in him still), or you get killed by lack of perimeter D.... then its not a sucess.

It's all about the playoffs!!!!

sorry, but the Suns team we saw earlier in the season wouldn't have won more than a game or two in the first round. Arguing that this trade can't be deemed a success unless they go all the way just seems like people not being able to admit that they were wrong... and to be honest, I really don't like using this term because I think it's thrown around too often, but it's "hate" for Shaq, nothing more, nothing less. You can't argue that we don't play the good teams in the West better, rebound better, play better defense and score just as well than that milk-toast, listless Pre-Shaq trade. I mean, you can, but you're gonna look pretty foolish doing it IMO.

Anyone who watched the team pre and post trade can see the difference between the two squads.

 

[nowagimp]

sorry, but the Suns team we saw earlier in the season wouldn't have won more than a game or two in the first round. Arguing that this trade can't be deemed a success unless they go all the way just seems like people not being able to admit that they were wrong... and to be honest, I really don't like using this term because I think it's thrown around too often, but it's "hate" for Shaq, nothing more, nothing less. You can't argue that we don't play the good teams in the West better, rebound better, play better defense and score just as well than that milk-toast, listless Pre-Shaq trade. I mean, you can, but you're gonna look pretty foolish doing it IMO.

Anyone who watched the team pre and post trade can see the difference between the two squads.

Yeah, big difference, it appears that shaq has made some enemies. The suns are a way better defensive team now.

 

[BC867]

Marion was still a freak of nature in the rebounding department at SF. Come on guys, it's not like Marion is going to start averaging 5 rebound per game now that he is not on the Suns. That is crap. Just look at his numbers when Amare was out or when others have been on the floor with him.

Marion was already averaging 10 RPG when Amare joined the team. I swear you Marion bashers never give up. If we somehow still had Marion on this team and we managed to get Shaq we would be a lock for the title IMO.

I think not. There would have been alot of minutes with either Diaw and Marion or Hill and Marion on the floor with Shaq or Amare.

Two small forwards and one big would not get us a title.

It's ironic that a 7-foot future Hall of Famer (Shaq) is content with not being the first or second option . . . but a 6'7" guy, who was not a money player and was an opportunity rebounder, whined because he wasn't.

That's the other reason Marion had to go.

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

A year?

Wow, you must be young. I've been wanting a center for 40 years.

John "hot plate" Williams and Luc Longley didnt do it for you?

 

[devilalum]

John "hot plate" Williams and Luc Longley didnt do it for you?

Alvan Adams was the best of the sorry lot but he should have been a forward. Like many other Suns forwards he had to play center because he was the closest thing we had.

It all started with the coin flip.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

What about Mark "foul called before the jump ball" West!?

 

[Chaz]

After 8 games with Shaq Bucher said we could "stick a fork" in the Suns. That they were done and not going anywhere. Since then they have done nothing but improve.

This trade was always based on Shaq's health and so far it is clearly a success because the Suns are much better prepared for the playoffs than they were.
It took the Suns single biggest weakness, defensive rebounding, and turned it into a strength.

 

[AsUdUdE]

What about Mark "foul called before the jump ball" West!?

hey now... I have a special place in my heart for Mark West... That dude is a TRUE phoenix sun.. even though he wasn't very good at "basketball"....

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This is a SUNS forum, why dont these Laker fans go to Laker forum and talk about Kobe cheating on his wife and buying her stuff to keep her, or Jerry Buss chasing girls 50 years younger than her???

No matter what, Laker fans wont admit Shaq trade is successful since they are bitter about Shaq. A title is needed for them to substantiate Shaq is replaceable.. Well, who won a Championship first after Shaq departed Lakers, SHAQ did..

Kobe is still waiting for his first ring after Shaq trade.

I wonder what will be the Laker fans' excuses once Shaq win a title with Suns, if Suns do. Dont tell me we dont have enough pieces to win a title. we sure do.
This team is more talented than the Miami Heat team Shaq was on that one a Championship..Dont tell me Wade carried the team and Shaq didnt do anything. Wade averaged 35 points because Dallas decided to double team Shaq at every possession, watch the game before you say something.

Shaq is not done, just watch yesterday's game..

We are past this argument. I know that you are new here. But Lakers fans are welcome here if they don't troll. Any fan is. There are lots of Laker fans in Phoenix. (a whole 'nother argument) You are going to have to live with talking about the Lakers at some point in this forum.