You Can Only Fire One - Keim or Wilks

[kerouac9]

I picked Keim. My reasoning is a little different. Keim hired Wilks. Keim hired McCoy. Keim knew what style of defense Wilks was going to run and Keim not only hired him anyway, he failed completely in getting him any pieces needed to run the new system. Instead, he got drunk and missed the entire offseason.

I don't think this is true.

Also, you can complain a lot about this roster, but you CANNOT complain about the defensive line rotation. Wilks might've said that he could work with Buc and Reddick, or he didn't know how much those guys really stunk. But I've rarely seen a defensive front formation change happen so smoothly.

 

[Snakester]

Easily it would be Wilks. Keim has been a decent GM. He's made his share of mistakes but he's also done a lot of good for the team. His first three picks this year are looking pretty good. A franchise QB in Rosen. A solid possession type receiver in Kirk and a starting Center in Cole that is getting better every game. I would rather have a GM that would grow a pair and be more aggressive, but we all can't get what we want.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I would have chosen Wilks, but I don't think either will get fired, so I voted for neither. IMO if you wanted both to be gone just vote for SK, because a new GM would want to bring in his own people.

 

[football karma]

Wilks

Is there an aspect of this team that has improved? I guess STs aren't terrible and have improved to "below average".

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Wilks has a greater day to day impact on destroying the morale of the team

 

[Solar7]

I believe more in Keim's ability to competently be a part of this organization. Wilks has unfortunately shown nothing, and looks overwhelmed, sad, and scared out there. This team needs some swagger, instead of measured coach speak, which is what we have right now.

I really feel bad for Wilks, but this defense might be salvageable if we can go back to a 3-4. Hell, I might really consider Todd Bowles. I'd be over the moon if we could bring Bowles back as DC.

 

[Jasper]

Everyday I log into this board hoping to find news that Wilks is fired.

 

[JosiahLee]

I don't think this is true.

Also, you can complain a lot about this roster, but you CANNOT complain about the defensive line rotation. Wilks might've said that he could work with Buc and Reddick, or he didn't know how much those guys really stunk. But I've rarely seen a defensive front formation change happen so smoothly.

You’ve mentioned this before, but why don’t you believe Keim hires Wilks? Do you believe Bidwill is that much of a micromanager?

 

[Chopper0080]

It is Wilks. In another era of football you could argue for another year. He offers Rosen nothing.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[bojack]

That's a real Sophie's Choice there...
I have to say Wilks only because despite Keim we were able to have successful years. I really think they both need axed because Keim has been failing more often than not. Wilks seems like a real quality individual, but he just doesn't seem like the right fit for this organization. He seems better suited a background role like a DC than a HC. Also, I don't know how much SK had to do with the staffing the coaching. For all we know he was the one that picked the DC, OC and some assistants and wanting the shot Wilks basically agreed to let SK make those decisions. If that's the case it's harder to blame Wilks for the mess we're in.

I'll assume though that Wilks does have the autonomy that a HC usually has... and if so he came in here, knowing we had a system that was more often than not producing winning seasons, and instead of slowly remodeling it he decided to just tear the foundation out of a perfectly good house tells me he is not fit for this job. You have no HC experience, no collateral built up with the team and you just turn it all upside down... that's a big gamble and if you're winning to go that route just don't expect to keep your job if it doesn't work out. Had he kept the systems in place and started tweaking them instead this team would be much closer to a .500 team and it would buy him another year of remodeling.

 

[sr7706]

D.

 

[bojack]

Here's a question... who was the last HC in modern history that inherited a .500+ team that their first year looked this bad (4 or less wins) and within another year or two had the team in the playoff discussion more often than not from then on?

Perhaps there is an example I can't think of...?

If our goal is bigger than building up to being a .500 team over the coming years we should cut bait now. If we were even a 4 win team last year then it would be easier to give Wilks another year. I don't think the players believe in his systems and unless you're prepared to do a wholesale change of the roster it won't work. The reason that won't work is you're not going to be able to attract players in free agency here without breaking the bank and you still have the same problem. First or foremost you need someone who inspires confidence in the players. Being a nice guy to work for is only going to prevent a mutiny, but it isn't going to create the buy-in you need.

 

[kerouac9]

You’ve mentioned this before, but why don’t you believe Keim hires Wilks? Do you believe Bidwill is that much of a micromanager?

I don't know anyone inside the building that told me anything, but I do know people who are close to Coach Arians, Bettcher, and Keim. On the day the hire was made, I talked to this person and asked about the situation. He said that everyone was aligned on Bettcher — then suddenly it was Wilks and Bettcher was scrambling for a job.

FWIW, I don't think deciding on a head coach is "micromanaging." That's one decision that the owner can (and should?) weigh in on. That's basically deciding who's the COO of your organization. IIRC, Keim wanted to hire Ron Rivera to replace Denny Green, and Michael came over the top to hire Whisenhunt.

 

[TheCardFan]

I don't know anyone inside the building that told me anything, but I do know people who are close to Coach Arians, Bettcher, and Keim. On the day the hire was made, I talked to this person and asked about the situation. He said that everyone was aligned on Bettcher — then suddenly it was Wilks and Bettcher was scrambling for a job.

FWIW, I don't think deciding on a head coach is "micromanaging." That's one decision that the owner can (and should?) weigh in on. That's basically deciding who's the COO of your organization. IIRC, Keim wanted to hire Ron Rivera to replace Denny Green, and Michael came over the top to hire Whisenhunt.

Interesting post.

Since Michael has taken over for pops, we have turned into an actual franchise. He has consistently delivered some of the best seasons Cardinals fans have ever seen. I give him full credit for that. The challenge for any CEO is not make mistakes with the COO (HC). He has certainly gotten it right with BA and seemed to take a reasonable shot with Denny Green (didn't work out). I never liked Whisenhunt and I doubt Bettcher would have been doing anything special, so you have to question his decision making ability at that level.

I firmly believe the strategy heading into this season is much different than the post draft strategy. I don't think they thought they would get a QBOF. Sign 2 veteran QB's, feature David Johnson, build a strong defense, and win ugly.

There is no doubt that McCoy was a bad decision.
You could argue that on paper, the strategy to hire Wilks, sign veteran QB's, build a strong D, address the oline (again, did they think LT, LG, and C were good...they sign a high priced FA G and then got a veteran RT), etc was a good one. I don't know what the strategy was but its easy to say the execution has been poor. You would need to better understand the strategy to determine the true failure to produce.

I will get grilled for this but is Wilks a poor coach? The results are a failure but is he the problem? Was it a bad hire (not qualified or able to be a HC), was it the strategy (who created the strategy), was it execution, or a combination? I don't know enough to know (as a casual fan...sad but true) if he is getting out X and O'd, out coached, out talented (roster), etc. I honestly don't have that level of knowledge or insight to the team to know.

As a HC, you typically see a high profile OC or DC. They are expected to bring that type of system/strength to the new team, address the other side of the ball, and be a leader.

McVay wouldn't seem to have the pedigree to be a HC. He is a brilliant offensive mind and hired one of the most experienced DC's in the business. He also inherited a very talented roster.

Our approach seemed to the opposite..hire a DC and a very experienced OC and previous HC. Not a very talented roster (especially on offense).

That being said, I think McVay would have coached this team to more W's than Wilks will this year. McVay is the exception though.

On the flip side, the defense is playing pretty well. Think about how good it could be with a legit DT and 2 LB's. Not too far away from being really good.

What if we had the next Sean McVay as OC next year, another legit WR or 2, and OL help?

The bottom line for a HC or anyone in the NFL is winning. I don't know if Wilks is a good coach or leader (behind the scenes) but I know he is failing at winning.

 

[JD Robertson]

I voted Keim strictly because I think a new GM will fire Wilkes. 2 birds 1 stone kinda thing.

 

[Stout]

I don't know anyone inside the building that told me anything, but I do know people who are close to Coach Arians, Bettcher, and Keim. On the day the hire was made, I talked to this person and asked about the situation. He said that everyone was aligned on Bettcher — then suddenly it was Wilks and Bettcher was scrambling for a job.

FWIW, I don't think deciding on a head coach is "micromanaging." That's one decision that the owner can (and should?) weigh in on. That's basically deciding who's the COO of your organization. IIRC, Keim wanted to hire Ron Rivera to replace Denny Green, and Michael came over the top to hire Whisenhunt.

IMO this doesn't at all absolve Keim. BETTCHER was the guy? BETTCHER was the choice? That would have been a train wreck too, IMO, and completely uninspired. It shows that NEITHER Keim nor Bidwill were showing real ambition--if true.

 

[az jam]

After living with Rod the slug Graves for many years, Keim was a breath of fresh air. I would like to see him get a chance to turn this around and think MB will keep him. The board may not like it but I think MB will give Wilks also another year.

 

[jmt]

I’m out after 60 years if we don’t fire Wilks.

 

[kerouac9]

IMO this doesn't at all absolve Keim. BETTCHER was the guy? BETTCHER was the choice? That would have been a train wreck too, IMO, and completely uninspired. It shows that NEITHER Keim nor Bidwill were showing real ambition--if true.

If you keep Bettcher and the entire offensive infrastructure I think were a 6-8 win team instead of this one.

 

[Paso Fino]

More than anything I'd like to see Michael bring in a consultant, a wise NFL front office type or respected ex-coach to evaluate the organization from top to bottom. There is
little doubt that Wilks is gone Dec. 31 barring a remarkable turnaround starting Sunday in L.A. Keim is more up in the air. That's why I'd like Michael talking to people
outside the organization.

Unless there is a new head coach, top tier free agents won't consider the Cardinals.

I couldn't agree more. When you watch the other games you see a level of sophistication that is missing from the Cardinals. I would like to see the Cardinals hire a new coach who has offense experience and a new defensive coordinator. When you look around you see successful assistant coaches who used to be head coaches. I was very impressed with Tony Romo's comments today during the Bears game. He might not be ready to be a head coach or an offensive coordinator but he could well be someone to bring in to help do the evaluation you advocate. The Cardinals are several players away from having a great team but the Rams showed that a successful transition is possible.

 

[Stout]

If you keep Bettcher and the entire offensive infrastructure I think were a 6-8 win team instead of this one.

So you think Bettcher would have been the head coach to lead this team into the future? Really?

 

[AZCB34]

I believe more in Keim's ability to competently be a part of this organization. Wilks has unfortunately shown nothing, and looks overwhelmed, sad, and scared out there. This team needs some swagger, instead of measured coach speak, which is what we have right now.

I really feel bad for Wilks, but this defense might be salvageable if we can go back to a 3-4. Hell, I might really consider Todd Bowles. I'd be over the moon if we could bring Bowles back as DC.

How good has Bowles' defense been in NY?

 

[football karma]

IIRC, Keim wanted to hire Ron Rivera to replace Denny Green, and Michael came over the top to hire Whisenhunt.

a nit: Rod Graves was the Keim equivalent back then and the Rivera fan, dating back to their Chicago Bears days

the scenario on Betcher you lay out might explain one thing:

for the most successful HC in Cardinals history, and, what seems like how tight MB, SK and BA were -- things seem a bit.... strained between BA and the org now.

maybe BA isnt happy he recommendation on transition wasnt taken, and instead, the whole staff was blown up.