Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Peter Sheldon]

Again. Name one center that covers fast athletic wings. That should not be his defensive assignment. If it is, he will be less effective in rebounding and defending the paint because he will be out of position. I agree about the layups. That has always been a problem with Nurk, even in Portland and Denver.

AD, Bam Adebayo. To some extent: Joker, Embiid, Sabonis, Myles Turner, Vucevic, Steven Adams. All better at guarding mobile people than Nurk. (or at least using height advantage to make up for it). Nurk has almost no vertical leap, so he cannot make up for it on defense when someone sneaks past him like some 7 footers can. Once someone gets past him, there is no hope. I still put Nurk very low on the mobility defensive list. There is slow at lateral movement, then there is super slow. Be happy about the good things he does, IMHO, this is not one of them. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns 2024-25 season schedule has been released.

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[Mainstreet]

The Suns will have 16 back-to-back games and 19 nationally televised games.

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[Mainstreet]

Here are more details about the Suns season schedule.

Full Phoenix Suns 2024-25 schedule

The Phoenix Suns' 2024-25 schedule opens with two road games, one each against the Los Angeles teams, before hosting the Mavericks at home.

arizonasports.com

 

[Hoop Head]

Again. Name one center that covers fast athletic wings. That should not be his defensive assignment. If it is, he will be less effective in rebounding and defending the paint because he will be out of position. I agree about the layups. That has always been a problem with Nurk, even in Portland and Denver.

Bam Abedeyo can cover quick wings.

 

[Phrazbit]

It is true that most centers can't cover athletic wings on the outside, but when it comes to helping cut off penetration and protect the rim from those guys when they get through, Nurkic is one of the worst starting centers in the league.

 

[Chaplin]

It is true that most centers can't cover athletic wings on the outside, but when it comes to helping cut off penetration and protect the rim from those guys when they get through, Nurkic is one of the worst starting centers in the league.

You keep using extreme hyperbole in all your posts, like Proximo, but how exactly do you know that his one of the worst starting centers in the league in cutting off penetration? I'm not disputing what you are saying, it's just hard to take your word for it when you don't back it up with anything.

 

[Phrazbit]

You keep using extreme hyperbole in all your posts, like Proximo, but how exactly do you know that his one of the worst starting centers in the league in cutting off penetration? I'm not disputing what you are saying, it's just hard to take your word for it when you don't back it up with anything.

Well, there is the eye test, he is pretty much glued to the floor, very immobile, not a threat at all to recover once someone gets an angle on him.

Statistically the biggest tell would be that we were the 4th worst team in the league at defending screens.

Teams Off Screen | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring off screen information for each team in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

 

[Hoop Head]

Well, there is the eye test, he is pretty much glued to the floor, very immobile, not a threat at all to recover once someone gets an angle on him.

Statistically the biggest tell would be that we were the 4th worst team in the league at defending screens.

Teams Off Screen | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring off screen information for each team in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

Wasn't Nurkic in the top 10 virtually all season at opponent shooting in the paint? I seem to recall the stats blowing away the eye test in that regard.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think we all know that Nurkic is not quick enough to guard an athletic player outside and prevent penetration to the basket off the drive. His lateral mobility is limited. This is one of the reasons the Suns drafted Ryan Dunn and will have to play team defense. It's also one of the reasons the Suns will need depth at forward/center because of foul trouble and injuries.

 

[Yuma]

Suns Schedule Release

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[Covert Rain]

Wasn't Nurkic in the top 10 virtually all season at opponent shooting in the paint? I seem to recall the stats blowing away the eye test in that regard.

Comparatively his individual stats were not bad against other centers. The problem was his team defense and protecting the paint. I posted those stats somewhere here on the forum. The Suns kept going up an down during the 2022-203 season at one point getting to Top 5 (with Ayton) then finishing Top 10 in that category. Then with Nurk in there we dropped to #18 Last season. That's a significant drop. Nurk was simply bad at rotating and nobody was scared of him in the middle. He rarely alters shots.

I don't know if you can put it all on Nurk though. Especially, if you believe that Vogel was a big part of the mess. The paint was simply an empty lane way to often last season with Nurk in there.

 

[leclerc]

I will be getting league pass again, ready to watch as many games as I can. My hopes are waaay lower than last year. Show me you have a pulse guys. Chillin' is not an acceptable answer. The new roster looks to be an upgrade. Point guard play is the new thing. Rooting for Tuys, Oso and Bol.

Let's not forget it's football season as well!

 

[CardNots]

I will be getting league pass again, ready to watch as many games as I can. My hopes are waaay lower than last year. Show me you have a pulse guys. Chillin' is not an acceptable answer. The new roster looks to be an upgrade. Point guard play is the new thing. Rooting for Tuys, Oso and Bol.

Let's not forget it's football season as well!

I don’t think Bud knows chillin.

 

[Proximo]

You keep using extreme hyperbole in all your posts, like Proximo, but how exactly do you know that his one of the worst starting centers in the league in cutting off penetration? I'm not disputing what you are saying, it's just hard to take your word for it when you don't back it up with anything.

Not sure why you are throwing my name into this, but for what it's worth Nurk is Ok defensively in my book.

I am far far more concerned about his inability to finish at the rim, turn the ball over carelessly, and make 3's than I am about his D. Actually against some opponents that aren't real athletic he plays excellent post D.

 

[Chaplin]

Not sure why you are throwing my name into this, but for what it's worth Nurk is Ok defensively in my book.

I am far far more concerned about his inability to finish at the rim, turn the ball over carelessly, and make 3's than I am about his D. Actually against some opponents that aren't real athletic he plays excellent post D.

That is a fair assessment. My problem is the blanket statement that he's one of the worst starting centers in the league without anything to back up such a claim.

I shouldn't have thrown your name into it so I apologize, just historicaly you and Phrazbit have been the most negative posters about the Suns in the past year.

 

[CardNots]

That is a fair assessment. My problem is the blanket statement that he's one of the worst starting centers in the league without anything to back uo.sucj a claim.

I shouldn't have thrown your name into it so I apologize, just historicaly you and Phrazbit have been the most negative posters about the Suns in the past year.

Class act, this post is!

 

[clyde2tw]

Not sure why you are throwing my name into this, but for what it's worth Nurk is Ok defensively in my book.

I am far far more concerned about his inability to finish at the rim, turn the ball over carelessly, and make 3's than I am about his D. Actually against some opponents that aren't real athletic he plays excellent post D.

Agree, mostly.
Nurk has stiff hands that makes him miss way too many closeup shots. And his 3pt shots were off last season. I'm less concerned with bad pass TOs though, as with a full year together the team's more familiar with each other now, plus we have 2 true PGs on the roster.
I saw a clip where Nurk appeared slimmer which helps the screen def. Also, I noticed quick double teams of the ball handler, with his trailing defender and Nurk upfront, with certain success rate. Nurk is a huge body to pass over or manuver around with ball. I'd like to see it more.

 

[Hoop Head]

The problem with Nurk in the paint is he gets too frantic trying to tip it in or tap it out to someone. If he took a fraction of a second longer and was deliberate in his actions then I believe his shooting would increase and our offense would look better as a whole.

 

[Phrazbit]

That is a fair assessment. My problem is the blanket statement that he's one of the worst starting centers in the league without anything to back up such a claim.

I shouldn't have thrown your name into it so I apologize, just historicaly you and Phrazbit have been the most negative posters about the Suns in the past year.

I think I'm being pretty fair. It's not exactly a bold take to say that center is a weak spot for us or that Nurkic is not among the better starting centers around the league, I don't know exactly where I'd place him, but probably around 20th.

 

[Chaplin]

I think I'm being pretty fair. It's not exactly a bold take to say that center is a weak spot for us or that Nurkic is not among the better starting centers around the league, I don't know exactly where I'd place him, but probably around 20th.

You called him one of the worst, don't change your story now. And what is your criteria for placing him 20th? Just the eye test? Because I've already proved that he's better than 20 just on stats.

 

[Phrazbit]

You called him one of the worst, don't change your story now. And what is your criteria for placing him 20th? Just the eye test? Because I've already proved that he's better than 20 just on stats.

One of the worst at certain aspects, not overall.

But yeah, if I went through team by team, I fully expect he'd be in my bottom 10 starters and I think that is being very fair.

He rebounds well, he passes alright for a big and outside of that he is either below average or flat out bad.

 

[Phrazbit]

You called him one of the worst, don't change your story now. And what is your criteria for placing him 20th? Just the eye test? Because I've already proved that he's better than 20 just on stats.

Looking around the league's projected starters, I'd say he's better than Missi (Pelicans), Mark Williams (Hornets), Gafford (Mavs)but I'd take Dallas' overall center situation above ours, whoever Golden State is running out there, Mitchell Robinson (Knicks), Carter (Magic), Poeltl (Raptors).

That is pretty much the list of starters I think he's better than. I could be talked into taking him over Claxton or Zubac.

Jalen Duren and Zack Edey are young and unproven but I fully expect both to have better seasons than Nurk.

So... yeah, somewhere in the 20s, firmly, that is pretty fair, IMO.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think with guys like Nurkic, the key is to design your system in a way that maximizes his strengths. He does one thing really well already (rebounding) so he is already useful. He is a very good passer/ playmaker, so you have the guys move and cut on offense. Defensively, there is less you can do. He is good enough to be a starter in this league. If this team is going to be an actual contender, they will need to be at least a top-three team on offense, and slightly above average on defense. Nurkic' skill set matches that formula.

 

[Peter Sheldon]

I think with guys like Nurkic, the key is to design your system in a way that maximizes his strengths. He does one thing really well already (rebounding) so he is already useful. He is a very good passer/ playmaker, so you have the guys move and cut on offense. Defensively, there is less you can do. He is good enough to be a starter in this league. If this team is going to be an actual contender, they will need to be at least a top-three team on offense, and slightly above average on defense. Nurkic' skill set matches that formula.

well put! And Nurk doesn't take games off. Always tries his best.