Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Chopper0080]

Minnesota tagging him.

Maybe. (I don't think so but it is a possibility)

 

[D-Dogg]

I'm sure I posted it here at the time but the USC fans I knew were jumping for joy when we hire Kliff. They REALLY didn't buy into him they thought he was going to be a disaster at USC because USC has always been a pro style offense and they saw KK as a gimmick.

Sure is working now with Daniels

I think l he learned a lot from his time here and then at USC. His route trees are much better.

I was one of the last off the Kliff bandwagon here, I don't think he can handle OC and HC duties, he CERTAINLY couldn't then. But, he can be a good OC if in the right environment.

 

[Chopper0080]

People are saying they think he gets 4-5 years at 40 a year

I don't believe any team with do this.

 

[Chopper0080]

I could see teams being willing to pay 3yrs, 35 mil per. I don't see a team giving him 4+ years. NFL teams are too risk averse.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think l he learned a lot from his time here and then at USC. His route trees are much better.

I was one of the last off the Kliff bandwagon here, I don't think he can handle OC and HC duties, he CERTAINLY couldn't then. But, he can be a good OC if in the right environment.

The concern with USC fans, and it was pre NIL when they were buying kids without everyone being allowed to, was KK would hurt recruiting. That people would no longer see USC as a good place to develop for the NFL because they ran a gimmick offense

 

[Russ Smith]

I could see teams being willing to pay 3yrs, 35 mil per. I don't see a team giving him 3 years. NFL teams are too risk averse.

Really depends on how many teams are looking for QB's at the time he signs. Most people compare him somewhat to Geno Smith 3 years 75 from Seattle, and Baker Mayfield, 3 years 100 from Tampa. Neither of them were coming off a 4000 yards 35 TD's less than 15 picks type year. Right now Darnold has nearly 3800 31 and 11. Geno had a serious injury in his past and lots of people didn't think Mayfield was to be trusted he was just too reckless.

It's probably because I'm so down on this years QB class in the draft but I think anybody wanting a QB is going to be competing for Darnold so he'll get a deal beyond those 2 deals both in salary and years

 

[HairZach]

I just want to comment that the interception on a pass where Kyler was a full yard beyond the line of scrimmage was the dumbest play I've ever seen in the NFL. The last time I remember that happening was the TCU vs. Cal 2018 Cheeze-It Bowl, a battle of 4th and 5th string QBs.

Btw I highly recommend this game to anyone with some spare time. 9 interceptions and 0 passing touchdowns. Demercado was the RB 2 for TCU. Jalen Reagor and Kavontae Turpin, the WR1 and 2 for TCU were held catchless.

 

[SoonerLou]

There's a universe where things get really ugly in ARZ next season SoonerLou.

I don't think it's likely, because I think overall the roster will get better. We'll tweak the Oline and WR room a little. MHJ will surely be better in 2025, Schedule won't be so tough, etc.

But we (on the board) knew it was a thing since 2020, and now I bet you a million dollars it gets talked about to death in the offseason. Next year if Murray doesn't play better in critical/pressure situations, they'll bench him, and then everything will descend into chaos.

Kinda fitting. He's on Daniel Jones collision course of being demoted to 3rd string if we don't start strong next season.

This sucks. Weirdly enough Im still more upset about 2020/2021. This team was nowhere near as good as those teams. While Kyler is more efficient now he's less dynamic. Those were the seasons to cash some goodwill for a team that was always a year away.

He's going to have to do some soul searching cause no one will care what he does until December.

 

[Solar7]

I'm going to pat myself on the back again on this one and point out that Kyler's who I said he would be... a divisive player like Jameis Winston. Not in playstyle, but the tantalizing opportunities that energize a fanbase mixed with an attitude and poor play in spurts that drives the fanbase crazy.

 

[Russ Smith]

I will say this, perfectly willing to move on if there's a plan that's not let's get rid of Kyler and then find someone better, you have to have that person identified I'm not interested in losing for Arch Manning and then he refuses to sign with us.

But the people saying well we can't run a timing offense because Kyler is always late on the throws, how many times do NFL analysts who actually talk to OUR coaches before games have to tell us that Marv isn't running the routes correctly before people accept that the timing is NOT just Kyler, it's Marv?

 

[Solar7]

I will say this, perfectly willing to move on if there's a plan that's not let's get rid of Kyler and then find someone better, you have to have that person identified I'm not interested in losing for Arch Manning and then he refuses to sign with us.

But the people saying well we can't run a timing offense because Kyler is always late on the throws, how many times do NFL analysts who actually talk to OUR coaches before games have to tell us that Marv isn't running the routes correctly before people accept that the timing is NOT just Kyler, it's Marv?

I do totally get where you're coming from, but there isn't going to be a simple plan with this. Moving on is going to require eating money and taking a leap of faith. We can't guarantee who is going to be available or where we pick.

Unfortunately I'm of the mindset that he's stuck here next year no matter what... but that doesn't mean we can't bring in competition. We can't tell who is going to be on the market. Mayfield and Darnold were left for dead in recent seasons and have now outplayed Kyler. Trust me, I don't yearn for the days of retreads and QB purgatory... but we're currently in highly paid QB purgatory. At some point we have to rip off the band-aid.

As far as the timing routes go... it's not just Marv. This isn't Kyler's first year out there. He's almost always had this problem. Even with his best friend Hollywood Brown.

 

[Russ Smith]

I do totally get where you're coming from, but there isn't going to be a simple plan with this. Moving on is going to require eating money and taking a leap of faith. We can't guarantee who is going to be available or where we pick.

Unfortunately I'm of the mindset that he's stuck here next year no matter what... but that doesn't mean we can't bring in competition. We can't tell who is going to be on the market. Mayfield and Darnold were left for dead in recent seasons and have now outplayed Kyler. Trust me, I don't yearn for the days of retreads and QB purgatory... but we're currently in highly paid QB purgatory. At some point we have to rip off the band-aid.

As far as the timing routes go... it's not just Marv. This isn't Kyler's first year out there. He's almost always had this problem. Even with his best friend Hollywood Brown.

I get that and it's why I said the timing issue is not just Kyler.

Just pointing out that when the analysts on games are telling us Marv is running routes wrong, that's not just their opinion, that's coming from OUR coaches that they talk to during the week.

the Kyler response on the pick "just trying to make a play" I had Wilson deep and Trey underneath just went for the TD. That's the type of stuff Jake Plummer said year after year here and it drove me nuts.

 

[BritCard]

I have to ask again, why are people so mad about that pick? It's 3rd and 12 from the 49 yardline of Carolina. I think at best he gets to the 45 or 46 yardline so it's 4th and 8 or 9. We're not going to go for it, we're not kicking a 63 yard FG, so we're almost assuredly going to punt. Even if he decided earlier to take off he's not getting us into anything shorter than maybe 60 or 61 yard FG range.

The problem there IMO is the 2nd down runcall. And he should have audibled out of it when it came in.

Because it was such a Kyler Murray encapsulating play. Don't stay in the pocket. Don't go through reads. Panic, bail out, miss the open guy for a 1st down, throw a criminally weak pass thats 10 yards short of where intended. Was just trash football.

Yeah the result was insignificant. Call it an arm punt. But arm punting is about all Kyler is worth past 10 yards.

 

[BritCard]

That Dolphins game seems so long ago. I thought that was arguably his best game ever. From the pocket-presence, to MOF throws, etc.


Damn.

It's part of what is so frustrating.

He has these games where he sits in the pocket, goes through reads, makes good decisions and good throws and looks like an NFL quarterback. You think "This is it, he's finally getting it". And then it vanishes and he reverts back to the norm.

 

[BritCard]

I would rather watch Darnold play QB next year than Kyler.

I'd rather watch Cooper Rush play QB next year. He's currently vastly outplaying Kyler.

 

[BritCard]

I could see teams being willing to pay 3yrs, 35 mil per. I don't see a team giving him 3 years. NFL teams are too risk averse.

I'd guess 2 years $75m. $60m guaranteed.

 

[BritCard]

Kind of wild to say when there were domestic abusers and DUI offenders on this team.

And I want Kyler gone but if Bidwill hasn’t sapped your passion considering we have been garbage a majority of his existence & probably will be after Kyler is gone then yea you are one strong soldier.

Owners or some 2nd string DT don't register on the same scale as a #1 overall pick $50m+ a year QB.

 

[Stout]

There's a universe where things get really ugly in ARZ next season SoonerLou.

I don't think it's likely, because I think overall the roster will get better. We'll tweak the Oline and WR room a little. MHJ will surely be better in 2025, Schedule won't be so tough, etc.

But we (on the board) knew it was a thing since 2020, and now I bet you a million dollars it gets talked about to death in the offseason. Next year if Murray doesn't play better in critical/pressure situations, they'll bench him, and then everything will descend into chaos.

I don't want us to wait that long to be rid of him. At this point, I'm not in for another year of KM.

 

[Stout]

Because it was such a Kyler Murray encapsulating play. Don't stay in the pocket. Don't go through reads. Panic, bail out, miss the open guy for a 1st down, throw a criminally weak pass thats 10 yards short of where intended. Was just trash football.

Yeah the result was insignificant. Call it an arm punt. But arm punting is about all Kyler is worth past 10 yards.

There was an insignificant play earlier in the first half that had me tearing my beard out. Kyler drops back, clean pocket with plenty of time, so of course he decides to roll out to the right, where there's a defender, and he throws and incompletion down the right sideline. For absolutely no reason at all. WTF Kyler?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I don't want us to wait that long to be rid of him. At this point, I'm not in for another year of KM.

Yeah, I'm tired of getting kicked in the groin over and over after getting excited about this team

Time to move on

 

[DVontel]

Owners or some 2nd string DT don't register on the same scale as a #1 overall pick $50m+ a year QB.

Owners absolutely do. Kind of crazy to think otherwise.

 

[BritCard]

Owners absolutely do. Kind of crazy to think otherwise.

Bidwill doesn't have nearly the same impact as Kyler. He's clearly taken a step back since Monti came in. You barely see him now.

And not to defend a middling owner but what exactly has he delivered? The only Superbowl trip in history and the winningest stretch in Cardinals history from 07 to 17? Yeah it's not been great lately and he's a dick but kinda crazy to think he has as much negative effect on this team as Kyler, who from 6-4 and a shot at the division and the playoffs completely poo the bed (again).

 

[BritCard]

Saw a stat online that said Kyler is 0-10 in big games (Playoffs, playoff deciders, division on the line games).

Which is why I knew we were going to lose yesterday.

 

[blindseyed]

I don't get the Darnold hype, don't get me wrong he is playing lights out and very efficient BUT he is who is now because of Kevin O'Connell, you bring him here and he's like he was on the Jets .

 

[Sparky16]

I was okay with Kyler's game today right up until the INT.

He and Conner had led the team to 27 by that point. That's was okay. It wasn't pretty but Murray had protected the ball pretty well and had distributed the ball to his playmakers so that they had a chance to be successful.

And he had impacted the game with his legs.

But with a chance to win the game and the ball in his hands... in a December game with the season on the line.... disaster... McBride was wide, wide open right in his line of vision, but he made a terrible decision there.

love the kid to death. Carved up MIA, and then MIN for 58 minutes, HOF game against LA, game winning drives vs. SF, LAC. dominated CHI. But when the calendar flips to Dec man, it's an issue.

Somehow, someway, K1 needs to learn to keep his wits about him when all the chips are in the middle.

Man you have blinders on..... he flat out sucks. He has zero leadership value. A 20 year old in Tempe is running circles around the midget in leadership qualities