Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[kerouac9]

I wanted to expand on the discussion I had elsewhere with @Stout and others about Kyler being the dominant cause of our defeats and him not being let down by the roster.

In our defeats last year (in order) these were Kylers passer ratings,

Bills 91.1
Lions 76.5
Commies 104.7 (but only 22 attempts for 142 yards)
GB 97.7
Sea 77
Minny 72.5
Sea 80.9
Car 77.9
Rams 76.8

You can see a clear difference there between pre bye week and post bye week, although in the early season he never attempted more than 34 passes in any defeat. Post season he had games with 48, 45, 38 and 37, the more he passed the worse his rating was.

Compare that to Joe Burrow in his defeats

NWE 86
Kan 103.7
Commies 127.5
Bal 137
Eagles 84.7
Bal 108.3
LAC 98.4
PIT 112.7

Burrow had a higher passer rating in losses than Kyler had in wins. That's a guy that was let down by his team. Burrow made 121 more attempts than Kyler too.

If we have Love, Tua, Herbert, Darnold etc at QB we win the division. I'm sure of it. We win in Minny, we beat the Seahawks in Seattle and we beat the Rams in LA. We surely win the Panthers game too but it's not needed, with those 3 we finish with 10 wins and box out the Chicks and Rams with the 2 wins.

Now compare QBRs

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I think him and the Cards need a fresh start. Not sure its happening here.

Maybe. Maybe not.

I think K1 (himself) could point to any of his first five years in the league and say his late-season drop-off in performance was either someone else's fault, or was exaggerated. In other words he could rationalize his lack of success for 2019 - 2023.

That's not really possible after 2024's collapse.

After the 2024 post bye debacle, where his faults were laid bare for all the world to see, he now must understand that he, Kyler Murray and Kyler Murray alone, must find a way to be better in the clutch, and in meaningful games.

There has to be an immediate personal reckoning and subsequent change. It's either that, or he's doomed to go into to the dustbin of history as an also-ran. As a never-was.

Maybe it takes a change of scenery to provoke this process, but it doesn't necessarily have to. He has enough support from the ARZ FO, coaches and players to further motivate him to make it happen while he's still here.

Again, that's if it's even possible for him to be better in those situations. I understand maybe it's not. All the K1 superfans have at this point is hope.

 

[DVontel]

Now compare QBRs

The Tua one is wild considering he has the same “shines in games with no pressure/no-shows in games that do matter” label that Kyler has.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I wanted to expand on the discussion I had elsewhere with @Stout and others about Kyler being the dominant cause of our defeats and him not being let down by the roster.

In our defeats last year (in order) these were Kylers passer ratings,

Bills 91.1
Lions 76.5
Commies 104.7 (but only 22 attempts for 142 yards)
GB 97.7
Sea 77
Minny 72.5
Sea 80.9
Car 77.9
Rams 76.8

You can see a clear difference there between pre bye week and post bye week, although in the early season he never attempted more than 34 passes in any defeat. Post season he had games with 48, 45, 38 and 37, the more he passed the worse his rating was.

Compare that to Joe Burrow in his defeats

NWE 86
Kan 103.7
Commies 127.5
Bal 137
Eagles 84.7
Bal 108.3
LAC 98.4
PIT 112.7

Burrow had a higher passer rating in losses than Kyler had in wins. That's a guy that was let down by his team. Burrow made 121 more attempts than Kyler too.

If we have Love, Tua, Herbert, Darnold etc at QB we win the division. I'm sure of it. We win in Minny, we beat the Seahawks in Seattle and we beat the Rams in LA. We surely win the Panthers game too but it's not needed, with those 3 we finish with 10 wins and box out the Chicks and Rams with the 2 wins.

im not on team murray (like at all) but this is a hit piece for sure - you don't take into account the mistakes the other qbs would've made - or the losses they would've put up - instead you have the other qbs starting off with the same record murray did - are we sure that would've happened? you then suggest they would've done better (than murray) in the last half of the season - i will say that one is more likely but honestly who knows - burrow sure - but darnold turned into murray in the playoffs and all them other cats are meh dot com

 

[DVontel]

I wanted to expand on the discussion I had elsewhere with @Stout and others about Kyler being the dominant cause of our defeats and him not being let down by the roster.

In our defeats last year (in order) these were Kylers passer ratings,

Bills 91.1
Lions 76.5
Commies 104.7 (but only 22 attempts for 142 yards)
GB 97.7
Sea 77
Minny 72.5
Sea 80.9
Car 77.9
Rams 76.8

You can see a clear difference there between pre bye week and post bye week, although in the early season he never attempted more than 34 passes in any defeat. Post season he had games with 48, 45, 38 and 37, the more he passed the worse his rating was.

Compare that to Joe Burrow in his defeats

NWE 86
Kan 103.7
Commies 127.5
Bal 137
Eagles 84.7
Bal 108.3
LAC 98.4
PIT 112.7

Burrow had a higher passer rating in losses than Kyler had in wins. That's a guy that was let down by his team. Burrow made 121 more attempts than Kyler too.

If we have Love, Tua, Herbert, Darnold etc at QB we win the division. I'm sure of it. We win in Minny, we beat the Seahawks in Seattle and we beat the Rams in LA. We surely win the Panthers game too but it's not needed, with those 3 we finish with 10 wins and box out the Chicks and Rams with the 2 wins.

Herbert - Absolutely

Love - Sure

Darnold - I kind of doubt it. KOC isn’t on the sidelines.

Tua - Laughable. He is pretty much Miami Kyler with the “Shrinks in big games/Rises in little-stakes games” label.

 

[kerouac9]

im not on team murray (like at all) but this is a hit piece for sure - you don't take into account the mistakes the other qbs would've made - or the losses they would've put up - instead you have the other qbs starting off with the same record murray did - are we sure that would've happened? you then suggest they would've done better (than murray) in the last half of the season - i will say that one is more likely but honestly who knows - burrow sure - but darnold turned into murray in the playoffs and all them other cats are meh dot com

Yeah. Going with passer rating is the dead giveaway.

Burrow is better than Kyler. Like way better. Herbert is slightly better. Love and Tua are about the same, depending on when you’re evaluating them.

And around we go again.

 

[BritCard]

Herbert - Absolutely

Love - Sure

Darnold - I kind of doubt it. KOC isn’t on the sidelines.

Tua - Laughable. He is pretty much Miami Kyler with the “Shrinks in big games/Rises in little-stakes games” label.

In 5 defeats last season 3 of them he had passer ratings of 114, 125 and 98. I agree he has some of the same issues as Kyler, but not as bad.

 

[BritCard]

Yeah. Going with passer rating is the dead giveaway.

Burrow is better than Kyler. Like way better. Herbert is slightly better. Love and Tua are about the same, depending on when you’re evaluating them.

And around we go again.

Herbert is not "slightly" better, he's much better. Love and Tua are better.

 

[Stout]

Maybe. Maybe not.

I think K1 (himself) could point to any of his first five years in the league and say his late-season drop-off in performance was either someone else's fault, or was exaggerated. In other words he could rationalize his lack of success for 2019 - 2023.

That's not really possible after 2024's collapse.

After the 2024 post bye debacle, where his faults were laid bare for all the world to see, he now must understand that he, Kyler Murray and Kyler Murray alone, must find a way to be better in the clutch, and in meaningful games.

There has to be an immediate personal reckoning and subsequent change. It's either that, or he's doomed to go into to the dustbin of history as an also-ran. As a never-was.

Maybe it takes a change of scenery to provoke this process, but it doesn't necessarily have to. He has enough support from the ARZ FO, coaches and players to further motivate him to make it happen while he's still here.

Again, that's if it's even possible for him to be better in those situations. I understand maybe it's not. All the K1 superfans have at this point is hope.

Word. Unfortunately, he hasn't even left daddy as his QB guru.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Herbert is not "slightly" better, he's much better. Love and Tua are better.

let's look at it in a trade scenario - would you trade murray straight up for either tua or love? me neither - herbert maybe - burrow absolutely

all im saying is your hypothetical had some hypothetic-holes - not to mention tua is one hit away from retirement

 

[krazy2k]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. That is KM, and the Cardinals, in a nutshell. Until he is traded, retires, or the Cardinals spend what it takes to surround him with excellence on both sides of the ball, they will continue to be an optimistic, hopeful team at the start of the season and a collapsing cacophony of confusion in the 2nd half of the season.