15 Days Until Training Camp Opens(!); 15 Top Stories of Training Camp

[MadCardDisease]

.....I am guessing the Fred Wakefield project.

I just did a quick bit of research. Since moving to Arizona the Cardinals haven't really had a TE put up numbers like that. Freddie Jones had one season where he had 500 yards and 3TDs in 2003. Jay Novacek had 569 yards and 4 TDs when the Cardinals first moved to Phoenix in 1988. Other than those two years the Cards have had zero production at TE.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Arizona Cardinals Training Camp Dark Horses

Link

This writer makes a few good points.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Good stuff.

I'm oscillating in disbelief.

 

[Mulli]

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[cardpa]

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It's probably better the ovulating.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Has anyone else noticed the national medias downgrade of the Arizona Cardinals? It took a few months, but I'm routinely hearing that most expect the team to finish 4th in the NFC West.

 

[Mulli]

Has anyone else noticed the national medias downgrade of the Arizona Cardinals? It took a few months, but I'm routinely hearing that most expect the team to finish 4th in the NFC West.

They read K9.

 

[BigRedRage]

Has anyone else noticed the national medias downgrade of the Arizona Cardinals? It took a few months, but I'm routinely hearing that most expect the team to finish 4th in the NFC West.

because the rams are elite.

 

[Mulli]

because the rams are elite.

Every year about this time people forget how terrible Sam Bradford is, and how overrated Jeff Fisher is.

 

[Krangodnzr]

They read K9.

I sometimes think that some fans don't go out on a limb; I'm not going to call anyone out in particular, but some fans on this board are "darksiders" just because they're more likely to be right taking that stance.

The logical stance is that this team IS going to regress and that the Rams made enough moves coupled with the return of Sam Bradford to put the Cardinals clearly in 4th place.

But my gut tells me that Arians is a really good coach and that if this team can win, they will win this year.

 

[Mulli]

I sometimes think that some fans don't go out on a limb; I'm not going to call anyone out in particular, but some fans on this board are "darksiders" just because they're more likely to be right taking that stance.

The logical stance is that this team IS going to regress and that the Rams made enough moves coupled with the return of Sam Bradford to put the Cardinals clearly in 4th place.

But my gut tells me that Arians is a really good coach and that if this team can win, they will win this year.

Wait a second! Did you just say "the return of Sam Bradford?"

You are better than that. haha.

 

[kerouac9]

Has anyone else noticed the national medias downgrade of the Arizona Cardinals? It took a few months, but I'm routinely hearing that most expect the team to finish 4th in the NFC West.

I sometimes think that some fans don't go out on a limb; I'm not going to call anyone out in particular, but some fans on this board are "darksiders" just because they're more likely to be right taking that stance.

The logical stance is that this team IS going to regress and that the Rams made enough moves coupled with the return of Sam Bradford to put the Cardinals clearly in 4th place.

But my gut tells me that Arians is a really good coach and that if this team can win, they will win this year.

Well, I guess it depends on if you're just ranking the division, or if you're doing an NFL power ranking. Urban talks about it in the blog yesterday(?)--in Peter King's MMQB, he had the Cards as 12th in his Fine Fifteen, but had Seattle 1, San Francisco 2, and St. Louis 10. That's a good football team that's still going to finish 4th in their division.

It's the preseason, and St. Louis is a team that looks better on paper. Good weapons in the passing game, a good running back corps, a defense that is going to remind people of the Giants' Super Bowl defenses. The problem is that the games aren't played on paper.

The Cards aren't a sexy team on paper. They're decidedly less sexy after losing two defensive playmakers and drafting a strong safety in the first round. They're maybe an underrated team right now, but the star power isn't there.

FWIW, I don't think the Rams are going to be better than us. They won one game in division last year, and I don't think they suddenly are going to manage to pull out 13-7 victories. The NFC West is entirely about winning division games, IMO.

The Rams have a stretch where they play four division games in five weeks. Great googly moogly.

 

[Mulli]

Well, I guess it depends on if you're just ranking the division, or if you're doing an NFL power ranking. Urban talks about it in the blog yesterday(?)--in Peter King's MMQB, he had the Cards as 12th in his Fine Fifteen, but had Seattle 1, San Francisco 2, and St. Louis 10. That's a good football team that's still going to finish 4th in their division.

It's the preseason, and St. Louis is a team that looks better on paper. Good weapons in the passing game, a good running back corps, a defense that is going to remind people of the Giants' Super Bowl defenses. The problem is that the games aren't played on paper.

The Cards aren't a sexy team on paper. They're decidedly less sexy after losing two defensive playmakers and drafting a strong safety in the first round. They're maybe an underrated team right now, but the star power isn't there.

FWIW, I don't think the Rams are going to be better than us. They won one game in division last year, and I don't think they suddenly are going to manage to pull out 13-7 victories. The NFC West is entirely about winning division games, IMO.

The Rams have a stretch where they play four division games in five weeks. Great googly moogly.

Good points.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, I guess it depends on if you're just ranking the division, or if you're doing an NFL power ranking. Urban talks about it in the blog yesterday(?)--in Peter King's MMQB, he had the Cards as 12th in his Fine Fifteen, but had Seattle 1, San Francisco 2, and St. Louis 10. That's a good football team that's still going to finish 4th in their division.

It's the preseason, and St. Louis is a team that looks better on paper. Good weapons in the passing game, a good running back corps, a defense that is going to remind people of the Giants' Super Bowl defenses. The problem is that the games aren't played on paper.

The Cards aren't a sexy team on paper. They're decidedly less sexy after losing two defensive playmakers and drafting a strong safety in the first round. They're maybe an underrated team right now, but the star power isn't there.

FWIW, I don't think the Rams are going to be better than us. They won one game in division last year, and I don't think they suddenly are going to manage to pull out 13-7 victories. The NFC West is entirely about winning division games, IMO.

The Rams have a stretch where they play four division games in five weeks. Great googly moogly.

Well said... though, IF the Rams were to step up and win 10 games this season, I would not at all be surprised.
The Cards have so many questions that need answers:

- Will Michael Floyd really step into the #1 role?
- What type of production can we really expect from Fitz?
- Will our o-line, with the addition of the Incredible Hulk, be able to consistently protect Palmer?
- Will Ellington be able to match and surpass his production from last season?
- What does Dwyer have to offer?
- Will Taylor take a step forward in his development?
- Will the TE position become even remotely functional and productive?
- Have we done enough to fill the gaping holes left by Dansby and Washington?
- Will Minter prove to be a productive force?
- Will we be able to establish a credible pass rush / what can we expect from Abraham?
- Can Cromartie become a productive CB again?
- Can Buchanon quickly establish himself as a credible force at SS?

It seems right to expect that, on the offensive side of the ball, another year under BA should produce better and more consistent results. However, the above questions linger...
And defensively.... well, just seems to me that there is a TON to prove there.
As you said - the NFC West is truly a murderers row... Seattle remains atop the hill, with the 9ers right behind them. The Rams and Cards will most likely be battling it out for 3rd place in the division.

 

[kerouac9]

Well said... though, IF the Rams were to step up and win 10 games this season, I would not at all be surprised.
The Cards have so many questions that need answers:

- Will Michael Floyd really step into the #1 role?
- What type of production can we really expect from Fitz?
- Will our o-line, with the addition of the Incredible Hulk, be able to consistently protect Palmer?
- Will Ellington be able to match and surpass his production from last season?
- What does Dwyer have to offer?
- Will Taylor take a step forward in his development?
- Will the TE position become even remotely functional and productive?
- Have we done enough to fill the gaping holes left by Dansby and Washington?
- Will Minter prove to be a productive force?
- Will we be able to establish a credible pass rush / what can we expect from Abraham?
- Can Cromartie become a productive CB again?
- Can Buchanon quickly establish himself as a credible force at SS?

It seems right to expect that, on the offensive side of the ball, another year under BA should produce better and more consistent results. However, the above questions linger...
And defensively.... well, just seems to me that there is a TON to prove there.
As you said - the NFC West is truly a murderers row... Seattle remains atop the hill, with the 9ers right behind them. The Rams and Cards will most likely be battling it out for 3rd place in the division.

I would. I wouldn't be shocked if the Rams found their way into a playoff spot, but it'll be a thing where all four teams in the division get involved in a battle of attrition and someone sneaks in at 9-7.

The Rams went 1-5 in the division by an average score of 13-26. Two of those games were decided by a TD or less, and the Rams were 1-1 in those games. The Rams were 1-3 on the season in games decided by a TD or less, which is neither unusually lucky nor unusually unlucky.

The argument for the Rams is that their 30th ranked offense is going to move toward league-average and their 15th ranked defense will move into the top 10 or so. Basically, they're the 2013 Arizona Cardinals, only they didn't do anything to upgrade a quarterback position from Sam Bradford.

Can Bradford doing his best Alex Smith impression do enough to win the division? I somehow doubt it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I would. I wouldn't be shocked if the Rams found their way into a playoff spot, but it'll be a thing where all four teams in the division get involved in a battle of attrition and someone sneaks in at 9-7.

The Rams went 1-5 in the division by an average score of 13-26. Two of those games were decided by a TD or less, and the Rams were 1-1 in those games. The Rams were 1-3 on the season in games decided by a TD or less, which is neither unusually lucky nor unusually unlucky.

The argument for the Rams is that their 30th ranked offense is going to move toward league-average and their 15th ranked defense will move into the top 10 or so. Basically, they're the 2013 Arizona Cardinals, only they didn't do anything to upgrade a quarterback position from Sam Bradford.

Can Bradford doing his best Alex Smith impression do enough to win the division? I somehow doubt it.

I don't think you're accounting for another year with Fisher... Not that he's Bill Walsh or anything, but he's a damn good coach who will have another year with his team. That could be enough to get their offence into the league average category and their defense well into the top 10.
I do agree with your views on the war of attrition within this division. They will bludgeon each other for sure... so perhaps 9 wins will be all it takes. But damn - it could be the toughest path to 9 wins in the history of the league!

 

[Cardiac]

Well said... though, IF the Rams were to step up and win 10 games this season, I would not at all be surprised.

I respect Fisher and think he is a very good HC. I won't be shocked if the Rams win 10 games but I will be surprised because of how good this division is and that NFCW plays the AFCW which was the 2nd best division in the NFL last year.

The Cards have so many questions that need answers:

- Will Michael Floyd really step into the #1 role?
- What type of production can we really expect from Fitz?

My questions regarding our WR corps is will Ginn and or Brown make a difference and take the top of D's.

- Will our o-line, with the addition of the Incredible Hulk, be able to consistently protect Palmer?

The Oline will be improved but by how much and how long will it take them to gel? I hope Niklas is done with injuries and earns a ton of playing time, he will really help the running game.

- Will Ellington be able to match and surpass his production from last season?

Juke doesn't cause any concern for me.
- What does Dwyer have to offer?
- Will Taylor take a step forward in his development?

I had hoped that somehow SK found a way to draft a RB but I'm really not concerned about the RB's.

- Will the TE position become even remotely functional and productive?

I'm excited to see this group of TE's play although I will concede it could be the koolaid talking.

- Have we done enough to fill the gaping holes left by Dansby and Washington?
- Will Minter prove to be a productive force?

This is my biggest concern.

- Will we be able to establish a credible pass rush / what can we expect from Abraham?

I think Bowles will be able to generate a pass rush but losing DWaste and Los hurts because they were great blitzers.

- Can Cromartie become a productive CB again?

I think Cromartie will be very good and my concern is will teams start testing PP more and will he hold up.

- Can Buchanon quickly establish himself as a credible force at SS?

My faith in SK eases this concern for me.

It seems right to expect that, on the offensive side of the ball, another year under BA should produce better and more consistent results. However, the above questions linger...
And defensively.... well, just seems to me that there is a TON to prove there.
As you said - the NFC West is truly a murderers row... Seattle remains atop the hill, with the 9ers right behind them. The Rams and Cards will most likely be battling it out for 3rd place in the division.

As some have posted I could see the team actually improving but having a worse record than last year just because of our schedule.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't think you're accounting for another year with Fisher... Not that he's Bill Walsh or anything, but he's a damn good coach who will have another year with his team. That could be enough to get their offence into the league average category and their defense well into the top 10.
I do agree with your views on the war of attrition within this division. They will bludgeon each other for sure... so perhaps 9 wins will be all it takes. But damn - it could be the toughest path to 9 wins in the history of the league!

I disagree wholeheartedly; I think Fisher is part of the problem. His conservative, play defense first and ignore building a modern NFL offense is part of the problem.

Look at his tenure with the Titans; he won a lot early on, but as the NFL changed he failed to adapt and hasn't been a winner in a long time.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Well, I guess it depends on if you're just ranking the division, or if you're doing an NFL power ranking. Urban talks about it in the blog yesterday(?)--in Peter King's MMQB, he had the Cards as 12th in his Fine Fifteen, but had Seattle 1, San Francisco 2, and St. Louis 10. That's a good football team that's still going to finish 4th in their division.

It's the preseason, and St. Louis is a team that looks better on paper. Good weapons in the passing game, a good running back corps, a defense that is going to remind people of the Giants' Super Bowl defenses. The problem is that the games aren't played on paper.

The Cards aren't a sexy team on paper. They're decidedly less sexy after losing two defensive playmakers and drafting a strong safety in the first round. They're maybe an underrated team right now, but the star power isn't there.

FWIW, I don't think the Rams are going to be better than us. They won one game in division last year, and I don't think they suddenly are going to manage to pull out 13-7 victories. The NFC West is entirely about winning division games, IMO.

The Rams have a stretch where they play four division games in five weeks. Great googly moogly.

Yeah, I guess that's a good point, but for everyone to be lauding the Rams year after year is silly after they continually fail to meet expectations. The Arians-led Cardinals team EXCEEDED expectations last year, and outside of losing two really good football players, has improved across the board.

IMO they keep missing the pick picture personnel wise. I really liked Greg Robinson, but put Sammy Watkins on that team and they become an explosive offense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I sometimes think that some fans don't go out on a limb; I'm not going to call anyone out in particular, but some fans on this board are "darksiders" just because they're more likely to be right taking that stance.

The logical stance is that this team IS going to regress and that the Rams made enough moves coupled with the return of Sam Bradford to put the Cardinals clearly in 4th place.

.

Wha? Darksider or not, I don't see anyone who thinks the Rams are better then us on this board. I actually see a lot of harmony as far as expectations are concerned. The O hopefully takes a step forward with Carson having a year under his belt with a better line and more speed at WR, and the D likely regresses some because they lost what was one of the best ILB tandems in the league and have HB coming off a major injury. Likely challenger for a wild card spot, even with the losses on D. How that's darkside-ish is a little beyond me.

As to the national media...they always look at losses of personnel more then additions, especially when the losses are as significant as ours. Couple that with the fact that no one really trusts Palmer all that much and you get an under the radar ranking. I understand that...but I'm with you in not understanding the magical leap people are expecting Bradford and the Rams to make. As long as he's the QB, they're stuck at the bottom of our division.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't think you're accounting for another year with Fisher... Not that he's Bill Walsh or anything, but he's a damn good coach who will have another year with his team. That could be enough to get their offence into the league average category and their defense well into the top 10.
I do agree with your views on the war of attrition within this division. They will bludgeon each other for sure... so perhaps 9 wins will be all it takes. But damn - it could be the toughest path to 9 wins in the history of the league!

I think that Fisher is a guy who can make a bad team competitive, but I don't know if he's the guy (anymore?) who can take a good team and make them great. This is Fisher's 3rd or 4th year in the organization; are they meaningfully better now?

I think the most damning thing is keeping Brian Schottenheimer in the fold. Was there anything from the performance of the offense that makes you think that this is a passing game ready to take the next step? Based on the guys that I'm reading, his offense was a complete joke.

Yeah, I guess that's a good point, but for everyone to be lauding the Rams year after year is silly after they continually fail to meet expectations. The Arians-led Cardinals team EXCEEDED expectations last year, and outside of losing two really good football players, has improved across the board.

IMO they keep missing the pick picture personnel wise. I really liked Greg Robinson, but put Sammy Watkins on that team and they become an explosive offense.

I guess that the Rams are in the position that the Cards have been in the past--the nice "underperforming but ready to make The Leap" story that we've heard in the past. I'm not sure where that story is really coming from, save for the fact that they had 2 first-round picks and a bunch of interesting assets.

I don't know if the Cards have "improved across the board," and you're dismissing the fact of losing two Pro Bowl-quality ILBs (who were the keys to the entire offense) pretty blithely to build your alternative narrative. Did the Cards improve at QB? WR (I know we all like Ginn, but he's not a proven WR, and John Brown is a 3rd round pick from a tiny school)? DL? OLB?

The easy wisdom is that you win in the NFL by winning in the passing game and getting after the quarterback on defense. We have a shaky starting QB with no real plan behind him, and our pass rush is dependent on an old OLB and no one else.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I never understood the Jeff Fisher thing. Guy hasn't won a playoff game since the 2003 season and has five total playoff wins in his 20 year head coaching career (one more than Ken Whisenhunt and Rex Ryan!).

 

[Krangodnzr]

Wha? Darksider or not, I don't see anyone who thinks the Rams are better then us on this board. I actually see a lot of harmony as far as expectations are concerned. The O hopefully takes a step forward with Carson having a year under his belt with a better line and more speed at WR, and the D likely regresses some because they lost what was one of the best ILB tandems in the league and have HB coming off a major injury. Likely challenger for a wild card spot, even with the losses on D. How that's darkside-ish is a little beyond me.

I'm not saying at this point in time, just making a general observation that it's real easy to be a darksider about this team, and it doesn't take any imagination nor moral courage to do so.

I agree that things are looking a little rosy around here and sometimes I have to pinch myself since it's not uncommon now to see koolaiders and darksiders having the same opinions on the team.

As to the national media...they always look at losses of personnel more then additions, especially when the losses are as significant as ours. Couple that with the fact that no one really trusts Palmer all that much and you get an under the radar ranking. I understand that...but I'm with you in not understanding the magical leap people are expecting Bradford and the Rams to make. As long as he's the QB, they're stuck at the bottom of our division.

Good points here.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I disagree wholeheartedly; I think Fisher is part of the problem. His conservative, play defense first and ignore building a modern NFL offense is part of the problem.

Look at his tenure with the Titans; he won a lot early on, but as the NFL changed he failed to adapt and hasn't been a winner in a long time.

I think that Fisher is a guy who can make a bad team competitive, but I don't know if he's the guy (anymore?) who can take a good team and make them great. This is Fisher's 3rd or 4th year in the organization; are they meaningfully better now?

I think the most damning thing is keeping Brian Schottenheimer in the fold. Was there anything from the performance of the offense that makes you think that this is a passing game ready to take the next step? Based on the guys that I'm reading, his offense was a complete joke.



I guess that the Rams are in the position that the Cards have been in the past--the nice "underperforming but ready to make The Leap" story that we've heard in the past. I'm not sure where that story is really coming from, save for the fact that they had 2 first-round picks and a bunch of interesting assets.

I don't know if the Cards have "improved across the board," and you're dismissing the fact of losing two Pro Bowl-quality ILBs (who were the keys to the entire offense) pretty blithely to build your alternative narrative. Did the Cards improve at QB? WR (I know we all like Ginn, but he's not a proven WR, and John Brown is a 3rd round pick from a tiny school)? DL? OLB?

The easy wisdom is that you win in the NFL by winning in the passing game and getting after the quarterback on defense. We have a shaky starting QB with no real plan behind him, and our pass rush is dependent on an old OLB and no one else.

You guys may be right... and I think this will the year where Fisher will prove himself to be a "better than good coach", or not. The Rams are loaded on both sides of the ball - and yes, that includes Bradford who I have always believed is better than what he has shown thus far in his career... But for him too, this year is "his" year to prove that.
Of course, I sincerely hope they fall flat on their face. However, my gut tells me that with the amount of top-tier talent they put on the field, along with Fisher who I believe is a "better than good coach", the chances for them to take a serious stride in the right direction are much better than either remaining merely a competitive team, or sliding backward...

Either way - this division is going to be a blood-bath this year.

 

[Mulli]

Fisher has been a head coach for 19 years. I think he has about 7 winning seasons. chances are better for another season of .500 or worse.