2002 Lakers vs. Kings play-offs fixed?

[Cheesewater]

Look up the definition of "strawman" and it describes your argument pretty well. In all the cases you cited, there was "evidence" to back up the charges. What evidence does Donaghy have to back up his claims? That's right, none.

That's the genius of his accusations. He doesn't have to back them up and the gullible, tinfoil hat brigade, such as yourself, will swallow his story hook, line and sinker.

I don't expect this to be your point of view if it comes out that any Suns/Lakers series in the recent past was rigged in the Suns' favor....

 

[justAndy]

Renz - It's not fair for you to label folks "tinfoil hat" when a LOT of observers with NO loyalty to the Kings stated their impressions about that game 6.
In an earlier post in this thresd I admitted to noticing an apparent bias by the refs towards the Suns in the '93 playoffs and I'm a Suns fan.
Maybe YOU have a blindspot because of your love for the Lakers.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Look up the definition of "strawman" and it describes your argument pretty well. In all the cases you cited, there was "evidence" to back up the charges. What evidence does Donaghy have to back up his claims? That's right, none.

That's the genius of his accusations. He doesn't have to back them up and the gullible, tinfoil hat brigade, such as yourself, will swallow his story hook, line and sinker.

By the way, I'm saving this quote for when the story fully develops. Do you know how shortsighted you have to be to say what you're saying here?

Do you really think the FBI would let this statement be released to the public if he wasn't able to legitimize it?

I honestly can't tell if you're being dense or brilliantly sarcastic.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Andrew]

Remember when the Kings were somewhat relevant...at least in the regular season?

Me neither.

 

[Renz]

By the way, I'm saving this quote for when the story fully develops. Do you know how shortsighted you have to be to say what you're saying here?

Do you really think the FBI would let this statement be released to the public if he wasn't able to legitimize it?

I honestly can't tell if you're being dense or brilliantly sarcastic.

Huh? How is the FBI going to stop Donaghy from saying anything? Donaghy can claim anything that he wants and no one can prove or disprove a thing he says about game-fixing. That statement by you is just weird.

 

[Bigdez22]

So what's the league supposed to do? A crooked ref says, "Those games were fixed". Okay. Again, it can't be proven or disproven. It's the cry of a desperate man, on his way to jail.

All it does is bring all the UFO/JFK/sports-is-fixed conspiracy nuts up out of the basement.

Your right....lets do nothing.

Typical LA attitude.

Its cool as long as I look good.

It's not like this came out of the blue. This has been talked about before by people who care about the game(Everyone not associated with LA). star players getting no calls. Refs blowing games on purpose.

Even Bill Plashkie(spell LA columnist) yesterday said it was the worst game he has ever seen.

and its not ufo/JFK/Sports is fixed conspiracy. Its the UFO/JFK/NBA is fixed conspiracy

The NBA.....Where The fix happens.
The NBA.....Where how do you not call that happens
The NBA.....Where tainted happens

 

[Renz]

Your right....lets do nothing.

Where did I say that? It'll be looked into by the feds, the league, etc., but nothing will come of it because, for the 100th time, Donaghy's charges can't be proven or disproven.

 

[D-Dogg]

for the 100th time, Donaghy's charges can't be proven or disproven.

Unless one of the refs involved comes forward...which isn't likely.

 

[nowagimp]

Where did I say that? It'll be looked into by the feds, the league, etc., but nothing will come of it because, for the 100th time, Donaghy's charges can't be proven or disproven.

yeah there will be no subpoenas as no law was broken even if the games were rigged. And David Stern is "not a crook".

 

[ajcardfan]

Unless one of the refs involved comes forward...which isn't likely.

The closest we'll ever get is Scot Pollard claiming there were "phantom" fouls called on him in the 4th quarter of that game. But, even if he were 100% correct, he couldn't hold up as a witness due to his obvious bias problem.

 

[elindholm]

I wouldn't discount the possibility of a paper trail emerging. There usually is one.

 

[nowagimp]

I wouldn't discount the possibility of a paper trail emerging. There usually is one.

I expect that lawyers like stern know how to make paper trails disappear. Its what they do for a living, mostly.

 

[Joe L]

Where did I say that? It'll be looked into by the feds, the league, etc., but nothing will come of it because, for the 100th time, Donaghy's charges can't be proven or disproven.

What do you mean it can't be proven???? It takes one person to roll over. If a memo appears or any tangible evidence emerges then all changes. Want to try for the 101th time?

 

[elindholm]

I expect that lawyers like stern know how to make paper trails disappear. Its what they do for a living, mostly.

You act like no one has ever been convicted of covering up white-collar crime.

 

[Renz]

What do you mean it can't be proven???? It takes one person to roll over. If a memo appears or any tangible evidence emerges then all changes. Want to try for the 101th time?

Fine, Joe. When someone rolls over, or some evidence emerges, then get back to me.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Sorry dude, I don't really care for "rape is funny joke material" people. Your post was stupid and offensive, and shows you don't really even know the details of the actual event, since you saw "butt" and decided to make a "funny" about it.

You thought I was being funny? Sorry, nothing about Rape is funny to me. You may be tired of the 'rape' story, but I'm not, and neither are a vast majority of women in the country. There is a reason Kobe is not the 2nd coming in advertising that he once was and was to become. Plain and simple, people never found it 'funny' and baseless (of course, I completely discount Lakers' fans from that equation).

You don't have anything to say on the conversation between e and me, other than to whine about my response to you in another thread. Dude, leave it in that thread. And don't quote something from me dropping an argument and then try to twist it as being anything more than it is.

It's been awhile since I was called 'dude' in writing, that made my day. Not exactly sure what it is that I 'twisted'. I said your attacks seem to be quite personal, and that needs to stop. Take it to the 'Smack Forum'. Don't post it here and think it lends credibility to your views.

 

[nowagimp]

You act like no one has ever been convicted of covering up white-collar crime.

Yeah it can happen, but a lawyer will get rid of the paper trail. Perhaps a witness not wanting a high paid NBA job will come forth. But I remember how Jose Canseco was laughed at saying that MLB had alot of steriod use, dont remember ANY players coming forth until the congressional investigation MADE them testify. Funny, how they just said jose was trying to make a buck talking about the steroid use being widespread. They basically character assinated him in the media and no media source believed him to be credible. Well, I guess he was plenty credible, and I expect that Donaghy statements have more than a little truth to them.

 

[TheVoiceofReason]

Just to remind everyone the 4th qtr:

(11:34) [LAL 76-75] O'Neal Free Throw 1 of 2 (30 PTS)
(11:34) [LAL 77-75] O'Neal Free Throw 2 of 2 (31 PTS)
(10:28) [LAL] George Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
(10:28) [LAL 80-75] George Free Throw 2 of 2 (1 PTS)
(9:46) [SAC] Stojakovic Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
(9:46) [SAC] Stojakovic Free Throw 2 of 2 missed
(8:29) [LAL 83-81] O'Neal Free Throw 1 of 2 (34 PTS)
(8:29) [LAL] O'Neal Free Throw 2 of 2 missed
(7:37) [LAL 84-81] Bryant Free Throw Flagrant 1 of 2 (23 PTS)
(6:21) [LAL] O'Neal Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
(6:21) [LAL 89-85] O'Neal Free Throw 2 of 2 (37 PTS)
(4:38) [SAC 90-89] Divac Free Throw 1 of 1 (12 PTS)
(4:24) [LAL] O'Neal Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
(4:24) [LAL 90-90] O'Neal Free Throw 2 of 2 (38 PTS)
(2:56) [LAL 91-92] Horry Free Throw 1 of 2 (6 PTS)
(2:56) [LAL 92-92] Horry Free Throw 2 of 2 (7 PTS)
(2:17) [LAL] O'Neal Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
(2:17) [LAL 93-92] O'Neal Free Throw 2 of 2 (39 PTS)
(2:07) [SAC 93-93] Funderburke Free Throw 1 of 2 (1 PTS)
(2:07) [SAC 94-93] Funderburke Free Throw 2 of 2 (2 PTS)
(1:55) [LAL 94-94] Bryant Free Throw 1 of 2 (26 PTS)
(1:55) [LAL 95-94] Bryant Free Throw 2 of 2 (27 PTS)
(1:37) [LAL 96-94] Fox Free Throw 1 of 2 (8 PTS)
(1:37) [LAL 97-94] Fox Free Throw 2 of 2 (9 PTS)
(1:27) [SAC 95-97] Bibby Free Throw 1 of 2 (22 PTS)
(1:27) [SAC 96-97] Bibby Free Throw 2 of 2 (23 PTS)
(1:15) [LAL 98-96] Fox Free Throw 1 of 2 (10 PTS)
(1:15) [LAL 99-96] Fox Free Throw 2 of 2 (11 PTS)
(0:20) [SAC 99-101] Turkoglu Free Throw 1 of 2 (9 PTS)
(0:20) [SAC 100-101] Turkoglu Free Throw 2 of 2 (10 PTS)
(0:19) [LAL 102-100] Bryant Free Throw 1 of 2 (28 PTS)
(0:19) [LAL 103-100] Bryant Free Throw 2 of 2 (29 PTS)
(0:11) [LAL 104-102] Bryant Free Throw 1 of 2 (30 PTS)
(0:11) [LAL 105-102] Bryant Free Throw 2 of 2 (31 PTS)
(0:02) [LAL] Horry Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
(0:02) [LAL 106-102] Horry Free Throw 2 of 2 (8 PTS)

27 Free throws. I have this on tape somewhere, the kings weren't even allowed to attempt to play defense.

If you can find this tape, is there any way you can upload it to youtube? The American public needs to see the evidence.

 

[Evil Ash]

So what's the league supposed to do? A crooked ref says, "Those games were fixed". Okay. Again, it can't be proven or disproven. It's the cry of a desperate man, on his way to jail.

All it does is bring all the UFO/JFK/sports-is-fixed conspiracy nuts up out of the basement.

Let a independent third party investigate. As of now, the only people that have investigated this item further is the league itself. The NBA is investigating whether or not the NBA rigged games?! You see where some people are skeptical about this?

The league has issues and an outside source is the only one that can really determine how much has gone wrong and to what level.

 

[tobiazz]

Fine, Joe. When someone rolls over, or some evidence emerges, then get back to me.

You mean when another person has rolled over and more evidence emerges?

Donaghy has "rolled over" and it's time for someone to investigate his claims. The referees he fingers need to be questioned, investigated for a history of improper conduct inside and out of their officiating duties. One of the things that made Donaghy stand out were his fouls-called-per-quarter ratios (or whatever you want to call it), which were far outside the normal range.

The game he refers to was evidence. The vast majority of it's viewers felt there was something abnormal about the officiating and Ralph Nader requested a formal investigation. An investigator can look into similar games with lopsided foul calls (Suns vs. Sonics) and see if there is a pattern of referees, team popularity, etc.

Donaghy's story also needs to be examined from the other direction. Does he have much to gain if the claim was false and thus unprovable? If two of the refs were prepared to hand that game to the Lakers, would one of them tell him about it? Unlikely, but certainly possible if they had a close relationship. Did this ref ever tell Donaghy about other improprieties? Did Donaghy tell him about his own game fixing schemes? Donaghy may have simply chosen this game because of it's infamy or because of a dislike for two of the officials.

So, there are already vague claims and limited evidence. More may pop up as long as this issue is investigated further by the FBI. Currently, there is no reason to either dismiss his claims or, conversely, assume they are true. Your statement that his claims are unprovable is false. They are only unprovable with the limited data (the game) we have looked at so far.

 

[D-Dogg]

You mean when another person has rolled over and more evidence emerges?

Donaghy has "rolled over" and it's time for someone to investigate his claims. The referees he fingers need to be questioned, investigated for a history of improper conduct inside and out of their officiating duties. One of the things that made Donaghy stand out were his fouls-called-per-quarter ratios (or whatever you want to call it), which were far outside the normal range.

The game he refers to was evidence. The vast majority of it's viewers felt there was something abnormal about the officiating and Ralph Nader requested a formal investigation. An investigator can look into similar games with lopsided foul calls (Suns vs. Sonics) and see if there is a pattern of referees, team popularity, etc.

Donaghy's story also needs to be examined from the other direction. Does he have much to gain if the claim was false and thus unprovable? If two of the refs were prepared to hand that game to the Lakers, would one of them tell him about it? Unlikely, but certainly possible if they had a close relationship. Did this ref ever tell Donaghy about other improprieties? Did Donaghy tell him about his own game fixing schemes? Donaghy may have simply chosen this game because of it's infamy or because of a dislike for two of the officials.

So, there are already vague claims and limited evidence. More may pop up as long as this issue is investigated further by the FBI. Currently, there is no reason to either dismiss his claims or, conversely, assume they are true. Your statement that his claims are unprovable is false. They are only unprovable with the limited data (the game) we have looked at so far.

Good post.

 

[nowagimp]

You mean when another person has rolled over and more evidence emerges?

Donaghy has "rolled over" and it's time for someone to investigate his claims. The referees he fingers need to be questioned, investigated for a history of improper conduct inside and out of their officiating duties. One of the things that made Donaghy stand out were his fouls-called-per-quarter ratios (or whatever you want to call it), which were far outside the normal range.

The game he refers to was evidence. The vast majority of it's viewers felt there was something abnormal about the officiating and Ralph Nader requested a formal investigation. An investigator can look into similar games with lopsided foul calls (Suns vs. Sonics) and see if there is a pattern of referees, team popularity, etc.

Donaghy's story also needs to be examined from the other direction. Does he have much to gain if the claim was false and thus unprovable? If two of the refs were prepared to hand that game to the Lakers, would one of them tell him about it? Unlikely, but certainly possible if they had a close relationship. Did this ref ever tell Donaghy about other improprieties? Did Donaghy tell him about his own game fixing schemes? Donaghy may have simply chosen this game because of it's infamy or because of a dislike for two of the officials.

So, there are already vague claims and limited evidence. More may pop up as long as this issue is investigated further by the FBI. Currently, there is no reason to either dismiss his claims or, conversely, assume they are true. Your statement that his claims are unprovable is false. They are only unprovable with the limited data (the game) we have looked at so far.

I read that there was probably no federal law broken regardless of what happened, so it will not be investigated by the FBI. Unfortunately, that means an inferior investigation by local yocals IF any local law has been broken.

 

[tobiazz]

I read that there was probably no federal law broken regardless of what happened, so it will not be investigated by the FBI. Unfortunately, that means an inferior investigation by local yocals IF any local law has been broken.

If there is suspicion of the league allowing or encouraging fixed games, I would have to imagine that would be considered fraud of some form, which is usually handled by the FBI.

 

[Andrew]

I have to agree with that Lakers homer Bill something on Around the Horn, Tim might have just picked the most controversial game in recent memory.

Truth of the matter is, NO ONE KNOWS. It was obviously a one sided officiated game, but to sit here and type up how you think its a conspiracy without proof just boggles my mind.

It was a questionable game, nothing more.

And to those saying Tim has nothing to lose so he is telling the truth, he wants to bring down the NBA with him...that is evident.

 

[passenger]

I remember Bavetta calling foul on Bibby when Horry's flagrant elbow foul almost broke Bibby's nose.You can only watch the 4th quarter and tell easily that it was fixed.

Lakers fans here disagree but my friends who were Lakers fans have told me it was obvious.4th quarter free throws,21-27 for Lakers,7-9 for Sacramento.Vlade and Hedo was called for foul when their blocks were clean.

Sac bigs Divac,Pollard was fouled out.After the game Sac coach Adelman has said"Our big guys get 20 fouls tonight and Shaq gets four? You tell me how the game went" .

It was the most sickening game I ve seen,PHX-SPURS 3rd game comes second

2002 Sac was superior than Lakers and have deserved,I just would like to know what NBA would do about it,it's sad that their championship was stolen.Not only sad day for Sacramento fans but sad day for all fans,the NBA and basketball.