2011 Draft Thread

[carey]

Yes I can prove it because there are definately 10 centers better than him and about 10 on the same level which puts him somewhere between 10-20 which is an average starting center.

Gortat, #13 for Flynn, #2 (Derrick Williams), #20 (Jeremy Tyler)

done done and done

I said before that I wouldn't do it, but if that were the trade I'd bite the bullet and pull the trigger.

I do think you're wrong about him being average though.

Player A: 15.3 points, 9.4 rebounds, 35.1 minutes, 56% from the field.
Player B: 13.0 points, 9.3 rebounds, 29.7 minutes, 56% from the field.

One of these centers was a #3 selection in the first round of the draft.
The other center is Gortat in Phoenix.

Would you trade either of them for Derek Williams?

 

[slinslin]

Al Horford is the other player and man seriously Horford is much better than Gortat. If he played with Nash his numbers would be much better.

And yes I would trade Gortat easily for #2, Horford is a toss-up depends on how much I love DWill.

 

[slinslin]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1113329&start=30#p28208605

Something a Wolves fan suggested

PHX Out: Nash, Gortat
PHX In: #2, #20, Flynn, Milicic, Webster

PHI Out: Igoudala
PHI In: Johnson, Ridnour, Pekovic

MIN In: Nash, Gortat, Igoudala
Min Out: #2, #20, Flynn, Milicic, Webster, Johnson, Ridnour, Pekovic

It works in the trade machine.

I'd do something like that although I dislike Flynn.....

#2 Derrick Williams
#13 Alec Burks/Marshawn Brooks/Josh Selby
#20 Jeremy Tyler

Milicic/Lopez
Frye/Tyler/Warrick
Williams/Dudley/Childress
Burks/Pietrus/Webster
Flynn/Brooks

Well we Childress would be useless still and Webster not much worth to us either.

 

[carey]

Al Horford is the other player and man seriously Horford is much better than Gortat. If he played with Nash his numbers would be much better.

And yes I would trade Gortat easily for #2, Horford is a toss-up depends on how much I love DWill.

The statistics are almost identical and the Suns don't even allow Gortat to start, so he isn't playing all his minutes with Nash. He's also playing 6 minutes less than Horford. I just don't know how you can say he's much better.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes I can prove it because there are definately 10 centers better than him and about 10 on the same level which puts him somewhere between 10-20 which is an average starting center.

Gortat, #13 for Flynn, #2 (Derrick Williams), #20 (Jeremy Tyler)

done done and done

And I have proven you wrong time and time again. It's your personal opinion list of centers who YOU THINK are better. It's a list that can't be backed up with any hard facts.

So...NOT done...done or done.

If you would like me to point you to the statics already posted on this site that proved you wrong in the past when we have called you out ....let me know. I think it's well established you like to ignore facts.

Also, if there are 30 teams in the NBA I think you have a really screwed up scale. There is a huge gap between 10 and 20 on your scale. LOL.

Since when in the NBA is being the 10th best player at your position average? Hilarious.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1113329&start=30#p28208605

Something a Wolves fan suggested



I'd do something like that although I dislike Flynn.....

#2 Derrick Williams
#13 Alec Burks/Marshawn Brooks/Josh Selby
#20 Jeremy Tyler

Milicic/Lopez
Frye/Tyler/Warrick
Williams/Dudley/Childress
Burks/Pietrus/Webster
Flynn/Brooks

Well we Childress would be useless still and Webster not much worth to us either.

I'd do that trade although I am loathe to trade Gortat (I hold a higher opinion of him than you).

This still leaves us with VC as a huge asset, Lopez as somewhat of an asset, Pietrus as a trade deadline asset, and either the #13 or #20 to couple with VC to make a better return for the immediate term....

Future Suns:

Flynn-Burks-Dudley-Williams-???

Although we could consider Dudley an asset and slide Williams to the 3. Get someone like Hickson, Gibson, AJohnson at the 4 and we have a great start there.

We really have to blow it up at some point and this is as good of a blow up as I have seen....

 

[JCSunsfan]

What's the attraction with Flynn? He hasn't done anything in Minneapolis. Why add more underachieving players to the roster?

 

[Folster]

Supposedly Minnesota was involved in talks with Houston during the deadline for some sort of Flynn/Brooks swap, but I guess our offer of Dragic and a pick was better. I wonder if they are still interested in Brooks and if Brooks would be open to a S&T.

 

[Mainstreet]

Al Horford is the other player and man seriously Horford is much better than Gortat. If he played with Nash his numbers would be much better.

And yes I would trade Gortat easily for #2, Horford is a toss-up depends on how much I love DWill.

Horford is a PF and Derrick Williams is a SF. Positions should be compared to like positions. I like Horford a lot... as a PF. Williams has yet to prove himself in the NBA. I hesitate to trade Gortat who may prove to be the best center the Suns have ever had. Also the fact that Gortat can be used to make a large trade for value only validates his worth as a center.

 

[Covert Rain]

Horford is a PF and Derrick Williams is a SF. Positions should be compared to like positions. I like Horford a lot... as a PF. Williams has yet to prove himself in the NBA. I hesitate to trade Gortat who may prove to be the best center the Suns have ever had. Also the fact that Gortat can be used to make a large trade for value only validates his worth as a center.

Ding ding. Good post Mainstreet.

 

[carey]

Horford is a PF and Derrick Williams is a SF. Positions should be compared to like positions. I like Horford a lot... as a PF. Williams has yet to prove himself in the NBA. I hesitate to trade Gortat who may prove to be the best center the Suns have ever had. Also the fact that Gortat can be used to make a large trade for value only validates his worth as a center.

I listed his stats because everyone loves him, and he's listed as a center everywhere.

Also, this is all speculation. No one knows if Gortat can be used to make that trade. All the original tweet even said was that the Wizards and Suns were the most active at trying to get the #2 pick.

 

[Folster]

The rumor of the Wizards and Suns in talks with the T-Wolves got me thinking.

Suns in: Rashard Lewis, Johnny Flynn, Jordan Crawford, #2
Suns out: Carter, Lopez

Wizards in: Carter, filler contract from Suns
Wizards out: Lewis, Crawford, #5

T-Wolves in: Lopez, #5
T-wolves out: Flynn, #2

or

Suns in: Rashard Lewis, Johnny Flynn, Jordan Crawford, #5 #20
Suns out: Carter, Lopez

Wizards in: Carter, filler contract from Suns
Wizards out: Lewis, Crawford, #5

T-Wolves in: Lopez
T-wolves out: Flynn, #20

 

[sunsfan88]

Nothing is worth taking Rashard Lewis's contract.

 

[elindholm]

Nothing is worth taking Rashard Lewis's contract.

I wouldn't go that far. The Suns need at least a few years to rebuild in any event, so if taking on a huge deadweight contract is the price to pay for some extra young talent, it would be worth considering.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

The rumor of the Wizards and Suns in talks with the T-Wolves got me thinking.

Suns in: Rashard Lewis, Johnny Flynn, Jordan Crawford, #2
Suns out: Carter, Lopez

Wizards in: Carter, filler contract from Suns
Wizards out: Lewis, Crawford, #5

T-Wolves in: Lopez, #5
T-wolves out: Flynn, #2

or

Suns in: Rashard Lewis, Johnny Flynn, Jordan Crawford, #5 #20
Suns out: Carter, Lopez

Wizards in: Carter, filler contract from Suns
Wizards out: Lewis, Crawford, #5

T-Wolves in: Lopez
T-wolves out: Flynn, #20

Wow. I like those trades, but I think they are too skewed to the Suns. The Wizards get hosed hard in those. I couldn't see that going down....

 

[Arizona's Finest]

We don't need to give up Gortat. He is part of the solution not the problem, no matter what the draft obssessed Slinslin would have you believe.

How about this trade?

Lopez/Dudley#13/Future 1st Rounder

#2 and Flynn

Williams will play SF in NBA and a Williams/Frye/Gortat Front Line could be amazing depending on how good Williams actually will be. Dudley becomes redundant with Williams here IMO.

Twolves get young vet big they want and a glue guy 2/3 combo in Duds as well as future pick.

Not sure the salaries would work but I would throw in Pietrus as well.

Quick question: If there is a lockout will the draft still take place as regularly scheduled?

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm reading articles that the Suns are interested in 25 year old shooting guard Jeremy Hazell. He appears to be very athletic, with some great moves not to mention his shooting. However, I doubt the Suns are interested in him at #13 as he is not even in the mocks at NBA Draft net nor Draft Express. Could the Suns be looking to add another draft pick (maybe in the second round) to draft him? He was off my radar but the video on him is much more than I expected. See below.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jeremy-hazell

 

[Divide Et Impera]

We don't need to give up Gortat. He is part of the solution not the problem, no matter what the draft obssessed Slinslin would have you believe.

How about this trade?

Lopez/Dudley#13/Future 1st Rounder

#2 and Flynn

Williams will play SF in NBA and a Williams/Frye/Gortat Front Line could be amazing depending on how good Williams actually will be. Dudley becomes redundant with Williams here IMO.

Twolves get young vet big they want and a glue guy 2/3 combo in Duds as well as future pick.

Not sure the salaries would work but I would throw in Pietrus as well.

Quick question: If there is a lockout will the draft still take place as regularly scheduled?

The trade works as Flynn/Ellington/#2 for Dudley/Lopez/#13 and I don't think that we'd have to include future considerations. Dudley is a GREAT player with a GREAT contract. As much as I am loathe to trade him, you are right on Williams at the 3 leaving no room for Dudley anyway.

What's great about this option is that it leaves other assets in place for the Suns. Pietrus and his expiring $5m, VC and his buyout, and retaining Nash, Hill, Frye, and Gortat. This gives the Suns the flexibility to trade for a good, young 2 (though who knows how Ellington would turn out) and/or a servicable 4 (Hickson, AJohnson, Gibson).

 

[JCSunsfan]

The rumor of the Wizards and Suns in talks with the T-Wolves got me thinking.

Suns in: Rashard Lewis, Johnny Flynn, Jordan Crawford, #2
Suns out: Carter, Lopez

Wizards in: Carter, filler contract from Suns
Wizards out: Lewis, Crawford, #5

T-Wolves in: Lopez, #5
T-wolves out: Flynn, #2

or

Suns in: Rashard Lewis, Johnny Flynn, Jordan Crawford, #5 #20
Suns out: Carter, Lopez

Wizards in: Carter, filler contract from Suns
Wizards out: Lewis, Crawford, #5

T-Wolves in: Lopez
T-wolves out: Flynn, #20

Do you really think the Wizards would give up the #5 pick just to dump Rashard Lewis' contract? I don't think so, but teams have given up way more than I thought they would in salary dumps before?

I would do all this in a heartbeat.

 

[CardsFan88]

If we trade with the T-wolves, get RUBIO!

Now if somehow we could get Rubio and (draft pick for) Williams, I'd actually be excited about the future Suns, which is something I didn't think I'd say for a long time.

Rubio, Williams, and Gortat would be a good core to start from, although I know, I'm dreaming.

 

[Folster]

Wow. I like those trades, but I think they are too skewed to the Suns. The Wizards get hosed hard in those. I couldn't see that going down....

The Wizards definitely get hosed talent wise, but this trade would not be about talent for them. By trading Lewis for Cater, they could save over $42 million over the next two years, and possibly be a big player in free agency the next two years. Not to mention, a couple years ago they traded the #5 and parts for Randy Foye and Mike Miller. The Cavs got an unprotected lottery bound pick from the Clippers for taking Baron Davis' contract. For these trades to happen Washington would obviously have to be looking to unload Lewis and cut payroll. Would Sarver be willing to add that kind of expense?

If the Suns can get the #2, Flynn, Crawford, or #5, #20, Flynn, Crawford, for Lopez and Carter then they have to do it even if they have to take on Lewis' horrible contract. Like elindholm said, if adding Lewis is necessary to add young talent, then it should be considered. We're not going to be big players in the 2012 free agency like many are hoping. We need young talent and fighting for the 8th seed with Nash for the next couple years is not going to get us any.

I should give credit to elindholm, who originally came up with the Lewis and #5 for VC swap on his site sunstalk.net. I just expanded upon it and added Minnesota.

 

[sunsfan88]

If Boston offered us Rondo and O'Neal for Nash and Gortat, should the Suns do it?

 

[Magnus]

Definitely. I'd be sad to part with Gortat, but Rondo is a superstar caliber player, and that is an opportunity you don't pass on. Rondo was the one player that kept Boston going.

 

[PhxGametime]

I'm reading articles that the Suns are interested in 25 year old shooting guard Jeremy Hazell. He appears to be very athletic, with some great moves not to mention his shooting. However, I doubt the Suns are interested in him at #13 as he is not even in the mocks at NBA Draft net nor Draft Express. Could the Suns be looking to add another draft pick (maybe in the second round) to draft him? He was off my radar but the video on him is much more than I expected. See below.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jeremy-hazell

Jeremy Hazell is a good scorer but if the Suns were looking for undersized SG, I'd prefer Ravern Johnson SG Mississippi State. I really thought Hazell would be great after watching him 2 years ago. Both would be solid 2nd Rounders though. I have both rated higher than LaceDarius Dunn SG Baylor. E'Twaun Moore SG Purdue is another undersized SG that would be solid in the 2nd Round too...


I have Johnson #37 and Hazell #41. Outside of my top 10 Prospects, I change all the time though lol

 

[Covert Rain]

If Boston offered us Rondo and O'Neal for Nash and Gortat, should the Suns do it?

No. I would love to have Rondo but that trade would basically be Rondo for Gortat and Nash. Did you see O'Neal this past season? He is a shell of his former self and not worth his contract. He is not the same player anymore and injury prone.

Bad deal. Nash is old but still played at an all-star level. Your giving up an all-star who led the league in assists and a legit big man for Rondo. That is too much.