2013 Summer League

Phrazbit

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What's wrong with his point. It's not like you can know everything there is to know about a player after his first five NBA games or even his first season or two. You're still taking a guess based on incomplete information just like you are when judging someone in a summer league game. What you can't do or at least what you shouldn't do is proclaim someone great from one or two appearances in a summer game.

Steve

So... you're saying I might have jumped the gun dropping $1500 on that Miles Plumlee autographed jersey?

But the guy is averaging 3.7 blocks per game, I dont want to jump to any conclusions, but he is basically a shoe in for DPOY right now.
 

Folster

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Christmas was on the Celtics summer league teams last year, so he must be a McDonough guy.

Here is a link to his summer league stats. 12.2 pts, 6.2 rbs, and 4 asts in Orlando. 14.2 pts, 4.4 rbs, and 2.2 asts in Vegas. He also shot to the mid to upper 40% range from the field. I liked the guy a lot coming out of college as I thought he could be a Michael Redd type hidden gem. He will be 27 in September. I think he has a shot to make the team or at the very least get a camp invite if he can demonstrate some solid shooting.
 

AzStevenCal

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So... you're saying I might have jumped the gun dropping $1500 on that Miles Plumlee autographed jersey?

But the guy is averaging 3.7 blocks per game, I dont want to jump to any conclusions, but he is basically a shoe in for DPOY right now.

Yeah but he's not getting ROY because Kelly O sewed that up in his first summer game.

Steve
 

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Christmas was on the Celtics summer league teams last year, so he must be a McDonough guy.

Here is a link to his summer league stats. 12.2 pts, 6.2 rbs, and 4 asts in Orlando. 14.2 pts, 4.4 rbs, and 2.2 asts in Vegas. He also shot to the mid to upper 40% range from the field. I liked the guy a lot coming out of college as I thought he could be a Michael Redd type hidden gem. He will be 27 in September. I think he has a shot to make the team or at the very least get a camp invite if he can demonstrate some solid shooting.

I loved Christmas coming out of Temple a few years back. I said in a thread we should've spent a 2nd round pick on him, although he was never drafted.

Glad he's on our team and hope he makes it on the active roster.
 

sunsfan88

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NBA games are a better prediction tool concerning how well a player can/will do in the NBA.

Brilliant! seriously..

Uh yea because one or two years in the NBA doesn't tell you how good a player will be. Then again, you probably think that you can tell if a player will be successful in the NBA or not after his first regular season game.

But this really does explain a lot...especially about how you diminish certain players and then praise others.

Is the reason you hated Gortat so much when he first got here because Gortat maybe sucked in the summer league of his rookie season?

Even using the first 10 games or 1 or 2 years of a rookie's NBA career as a "prediction tool" is ridiculous but it's better than using SUMMER LEAGUE as a "prediction tool".
 

Sci Fi

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What's wrong with his point. It's not like you can know everything there is to know about a player after his first five NBA games or even his first season or two. You're still taking a guess based on incomplete information just like you are when judging someone in a summer league game. What you can't do or at least what you shouldn't do is proclaim someone great from one or two appearances in a summer game.

Steve

Nobody here ever claimed Olynyk great. I said I considered him the leading candidate for the ROY. I still do and I'm not alone. But beyond that there are a couple flaws with your theory.

First, there were three games, not one. Yes, it makes a bigger difference than you'd imagine. But that's really a small point. What everyone here is failing to consider is that a player doesn't just come to summer league as a blank slate. He has a history that one can look at. He also has attributes such as his physical characteristics and his skills. If I'm judging his next year on anything, it's more on that than it is the games. But three games really help. If the draft were done now, I can assure you Olynyk wouldn't go 13th.

But just in case you'd like an other opinion, go over to bettingexpress.com and look at the line for NBA ROY. Olynyk is currently a very close third trailing only Burke and Oladipo. The other day when I originally wrote this he was fifth at +1000. He's now at +600. Give Burke one more game and he'll move ahead of him. He'd be second now if Burke had played yesterday. (And, yes, that's another projection based on two games.)
 
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AzStevenCal

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Nobody here ever claimed Olynyk great. I said I considered him the leading candidate for the ROY. I still do and I'm not alone. But beyond that there are a couple flaws with your theory.

First, there were three games, not one. Yes, it makes a bigger difference than you'd imagine. But that's really a small point. What everyone here is failing to consider is that a player doesn't just come to summer league as a blank slate. He has a history that one can look at. He also has attributes such as his physical characteristics and his skills. If I'm judging his next year on anything, it's more on that than it is the games. But three games really help. If the draft were done now, I can assure you Olynyk wouldn't go 13th.

But just in case you'd like an other opinion, go over to bettingexpress.com and look at the line for NBA ROY. Olynyk is currently a very close third trailing only Burke and Oladipo. The other day when I originally wrote this he was fifth at +1000. He's now at +600. Give Burke one more game and he'll move ahead of him. He'd be second now if Burke had played yesterday. (And, yes, that's another projection based on two games.)

You're jumping to conclusions. First off, I also think Kelly has a fair chance at ROY. My comments had nothing to do with your post. I was still addressing the points another poster made on the 7th (the first day of summer league) proclaiming MCW better than Mclemore and insisting that one game of summer ball was enough to prove the bad draft label wrong.

If Kelly had measured better at the combine he would have been my choice for our pick. As it is, I'm very impressed by his game but before I proclaim him ROY I want to see how he does against real NBA players. Some guys can adjust but some of the shorter armed big men start to play cautious up against that much length. We'll see.

Steve
 

Sci Fi

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You're jumping to conclusions. First off, I also think Kelly has a fair chance at ROY. My comments had nothing to do with your post. I was still addressing the points another poster made on the 7th (the first day of summer league) proclaiming MCW better than Mclemore and insisting that one game of summer ball was enough to prove the bad draft label wrong.

If Kelly had measured better at the combine he would have been my choice for our pick. As it is, I'm very impressed by his game but before I proclaim him ROY I want to see how he does against real NBA players. Some guys can adjust but some of the shorter armed big men start to play cautious up against that much length. We'll see.

Steve

OK, now I understand. Wow, you're an early riser.
 

Mainstreet

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Any word on Malcolm Lee who was a throw-in in the trade with GS? I don't see him on the Vegas League roster. It's like no one talks about him.
 

Mainstreet

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To answer my question, Lee reportedly has had knee and hip surgery. Perhaps the Suns are waiting for insurance to pay his salary. Anyone think that McDonnough panicked in the draft moving from #30 to #29 to get Archie Goodwin? I mean, if GS wanted Goodwin, why would they trade one slot with the Suns.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nba/1868/malcolm-lee
 

Phrazbit

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To answer my question, Lee reportedly has had knee and hip surgery. Perhaps the Suns are waiting for insurance to pay his salary. Anyone think that McDonnough panicked in the draft moving from #30 to #29 to get Archie Goodwin? I mean, if GS wanted Goodwin, why would they trade one slot with the Suns.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nba/1868/malcolm-lee

I'd think they knew something, such as that another team was on the phone with GS trying to work a deal. All it cost the Suns was a tiny chunk of cap space for one season.
 

Mainstreet

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I'd think they knew something, such as that another team was on the phone with GS trying to work a deal. All it cost the Suns was a tiny chunk of cap space for one season.

Maybe.
 

sunsfan88

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To answer my question, Lee reportedly has had knee and hip surgery. Perhaps the Suns are waiting for insurance to pay his salary. Anyone think that McDonnough panicked in the draft moving from #30 to #29 to get Archie Goodwin? I mean, if GS wanted Goodwin, why would they trade one slot with the Suns.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nba/1868/malcolm-lee

Some other team was also in talks with GS to get the pick and draft Goodwin, at least that's what McDonough implied in the press conference for Goodwin.
 

Russ Smith

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To answer my question, Lee reportedly has had knee and hip surgery. Perhaps the Suns are waiting for insurance to pay his salary. Anyone think that McDonnough panicked in the draft moving from #30 to #29 to get Archie Goodwin? I mean, if GS wanted Goodwin, why would they trade one slot with the Suns.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nba/1868/malcolm-lee

Malcolm is a good kid who listened to very bad advice from his AAU coach and his dad and turned pro coming off knee surgery knowing there'd be a lockout.

He then worked out too soon after the surgery, never healed right, and has I think had 2 more knee surgeries since then.

Good defender, good kid, mediocre shooter. The problem with Lee and the surgeries is he has a LONG history of issues with his legs. At UCLA he had a constant cramping problem, several times he was on the bench late in big games because of cramps. They tried all sorts of things to help him. So he's already got this issue with his legs, add in a couple of surgeries and he's probably going to age very quickly.
 

Errntknght

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It sounds like GS played the Suns a bit - pretty clearly they wanted to dump Malcolm and used the Suns anxiety about Goodwin to do it. Its possible I suppose that McD liked Lee and was happy to have him forced onto his team - figuring our training staff would fix him up good as new.
 

Phrazbit

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I am not at all concerned about the parameters of the Golden State deal. Lee is owed 800k... and thats it. I am sure some Golden State fans were saying "Why did we give up a young player making beans to me BACKWARDS?!"

I dont care if Lee never plays another game. At the absolute worst the "cost" of the Suns moving up one spot was a miniscule fraction (1.3%) off our cap for one year.
 

JCSunsfan

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It sounds like GS played the Suns a bit - pretty clearly they wanted to dump Malcolm and used the Suns anxiety about Goodwin to do it. Its possible I suppose that McD liked Lee and was happy to have him forced onto his team - figuring our training staff would fix him up good as new.

Its ok. It didn't cost us much and we got the player we wanted.
 

elindholm

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Anyone think that McDonnough panicked in the draft moving from #30 to #29 to get Archie Goodwin? I mean, if GS wanted Goodwin, why would they trade one slot with the Suns.

There's no way to know what other teams want. If you have a chance to pay a small price to move up and grab a player you have your eye on, you do it. Remember, the Suns (Kerr) moved up to get Dragic too.
 

Mainstreet

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There's no way to know what other teams want. If you have a chance to pay a small price to move up and grab a player you have your eye on, you do it. Remember, the Suns (Kerr) moved up to get Dragic too.

What is funny about this, it became open knowledge during the draft who the Suns were wanting to select in the second round. Any team could have drafted him until San Antonio stepped up. So much for secrets.
 

sunsfan88

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What is funny about this, it became open knowledge during the draft who the Suns were wanting to select in the second round. Any team could have drafted him until San Antonio stepped up. So much for secrets.
It would have sucked if they got Dragic....he would learned from the player that many compare him to...Ginobili.
 

Sci Fi

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I'm such a basketball junkie I'm really looking forward to summer league. Obviously interested in seeing the draft picks but two guys I'm also interested in seeing are Thomas Abercrombie and Jake Cohen.

Abercrombie is similar to Tucker in that he's full throttle, all the time but has a different skill set. Amazing leaper, decent shooter and heady. I think he has a shot at making the roster. I hope at least he gets some good minutes so that he gets a legitimate chance. I'd like to see him in the NBA. Could be a good eight or nine man.

I don't know anything about Cohen other than he's 6'10" and can shoot the three. Looks like he can do some other things as well but really it's all about can he hit that three. Guys that size that can be worth something.

Of the holdovers, I'm most interested in watching Marcus. He started well in Phoenix and then he had some problems with Hunter and didn't really play. He played OK in Houston and shot the 3 well. Seems like there's something there that's been missed.

I hope all three PG's look good so that the Suns won't hesitate to move Marshall. I don't think he has much upside.
 

sunsfan88

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I really hope that PJ Tucker worked on his shooting. We're gonna need that this year.
 

Mainstreet

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Any Suns Summer League games going to be carried on NBA TV or elsewhere? NBA TV is carrying games but I do not see the Suns game scheduled this afternoon with Portland.

I have the usual internet links that hopefully will serve as backups.
 

AfroSuns

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Any Suns Summer League games going to be carried on NBA TV or elsewhere? NBA TV is carrying games but I do not see the Suns game scheduled this afternoon with Portland.

I have the usual internet links that hopefully will serve as backups.


I don't see it on atdhe. any other link?
 

Mainstreet

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I don't see it on atdhe. any other link?

No. I struck out. I really wanted to watch the athleticism of Goodwin.

I watched some of the Kings game earlier and McLemore was having a terrible day shooting.
 

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