2016 NBA Draft thread

[Errntknght]

He was. And I'm sure he has value in the right system. I just hate his style of play, as I might have mentioned once or twice before.

Yeah, maybe even three times. It was mainly a coaching problem, IMO. Scola felt helpless out on the perimeter so what you do is not have him defend players that will take him out there... well, try to take him out there because he'd switch onto someone else as soon as his man headed away from the paint.

I haven't watched enough of Sabonis to know if he suffers from the same kind of agoraphobia but he probably doesn't though he's clearly an inside player.

 

[Mainstreet]

Despite my like for Luis Scola, below the rim players worry me some. It leaves less room for improvement. Also Sabonis will have trouble finishing against more athletic NBA players inside. I wish he had more hops to help get his shot off.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, maybe even three times. It was mainly a coaching problem, IMO. Scola felt helpless out on the perimeter so what you do is not have him defend players that will take him out there... well, try to take him out there because he'd switch onto someone else as soon as his man headed away from the paint.

I haven't watched enough of Sabonis to know if he suffers from the same kind of agoraphobia but he probably doesn't though he's clearly an inside player.

I'm sure coaching had a lot to do with it. But there was another aspect of his game I really disliked too although come to think of it, that might have been coaching also. I've never seen someone that had such an obvious cutoff to his shooting range. He was a great shooter out to a certain mark and a horrible shooter if he ventured just a few inches beyond that. In crunch time the defense would force him to step just outside his range and yet he'd still take that shot. A good coach would have forced him away from those kind of shots.

I haven't watched a lot of Sabonis either. I've watched him play a few times and I've liked what I've seen but I have no idea how he'll adjust to the NBA game. My guess is he'll be a better pro than he was in college, rebounding and BB IQ show well at the next level.

 

[slinslin]

Sabonis is much more mobile than Scola. He is a better defender and rebounder as well.

He does not have the faceup game, is not a natural shooter like Scola ( I have only seen Sabonis make jumpers when he was left wide open) and he does not nearly have the finesse, he plays more like a bully.

I am guessing a lot of same people who couldn't stop raving about Kaminsky last year like Sabonis this year.

I dont think the Scola comparison is a good one and mostly down to both being white. I think Sabonis compares more to someone like say Ed Davis stylistically.

 

[slinslin]

He is a pf. That is where he is projected to play in the NBA. He can easily defend the pf spot and he has range to play it. I do not know why you keep saying he is a center.

The majority of draft sites list him at F/C.

Without doing research on that I am guessing that the vasy majority of so called F/C turn out to be centers.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He does not have the faceup game, is not a natural shooter like Scola ( I have only seen Sabonis make jumpers when he was left wide open) and he does not nearly have the finesse, he plays more like a bully.

I am guessing a lot of same people who couldn't stop raving about Kaminsky last year like Sabonis this year.

I dont think the Scola comparison is a good one and mostly down to both being white. I think Sabonis compares more to someone like say Ed Davis stylistically.

I don't think it has anything to do with skin color. I think it's more that they are both considered smart players and neither of them are great athletes. I know the history surrounding those two descriptions but that doesn't mean it has to be racial. But I don't think they are all that similar either. IMO Scola is more wily (crafty) than smart whereas Sabonis seems to be a true student of the game.

I know a few people here are really pushing for Sabonis but I don't think that's true for most of us, whether we liked Kaminsky or not. Not all of us that like Sabonis think he's destined for stardom. There are several bigs with strong potential that I'd prefer over him but IMO Sabonis has a higher floor than most of the big men coming out this season. If we're looking for a middle of the pack starter he's a pretty safe bet IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't think it has anything to do with skin color. I think it's more that they are both considered smart players and neither of them are great athletes. I know the history surrounding those two descriptions but that doesn't mean it has to be racial. But I don't think they are all that similar either. IMO Scola is more wily (crafty) than smart whereas Sabonis seems to be a true student of the game.

I know a few people here are really pushing for Sabonis but I don't think that's true for most of us, whether we liked Kaminsky or not. Not all of us that like Sabonis think he's destined for stardom. There are several bigs with strong potential that I'd prefer over him but IMO Sabonis has a higher floor than most of the big men coming out this season. If we're looking for a middle of the pack starter he's a pretty safe bet IMO.

I like Sabonis. I do not think he is destined for stardom. He is destined to be a glue guy and a solid starter on a very good team. Think Tristan Thompson or Iggy type of role--maybe a bigger more skilled PJ Tucker. Bill Laimbeer maybe? Iggy is not the star of the Warriors, but his contribution is essential at times. I am not talking about type of game here, I am talking about level of contribution. I have no doubt he will develop a shot. He already has a shot and makes a good percentage when he takes them. His form is excellent.

He also has a swagger about him. That certain "it" about him that reminds me of Dan Majerle. Its that attitude that says, "I might struggle, but you will never intimidate me." Kaminsky has a deer-in-the-headlights type of manner.

Oh and Slin saying he has played well in the tourney but they played against nothing teams in the reg season. Gonzaga played: Washington, Tex A&M, UCLA, Arizona, SMU, UConn, Tennessee,

I would not want him with our first pick. I am hoping with the Wiz pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I like Sabonis. I do not think he is destined for stardom. He is destined to be a glue guy and a solid starter on a very good team. Think Tristan Thompson or Iggy type of role--maybe a bigger more skilled PJ Tucker. Bill Laimbeer maybe? Iggy is not the star of the Warriors, but his contribution is essential at times. I am not talking about type of game here, I am talking about level of contribution. I have no doubt he will develop a shot. He already has a shot and makes a good percentage when he takes them. His form is excellent.

He also has a swagger about him. That certain "it" about him that reminds me of Dan Majerle. Its that attitude that says, "I might struggle, but you will never intimidate me." Kaminsky has a deer-in-the-headlights type of manner.

I don't disagree with anything you said here (I have no opinion on Kaminsky though). I'd be fine with choosing Sabonis with the Washington pick but I'd be a little disappointed if we grabbed him with the 3rd or 4th. But at the time of the draft I was a little disappointed we grabbed Booker so I can live with a little disappointment.

 

[slinslin]

I like Sabonis. I do not think he is destined for stardom. He is destined to be a glue guy and a solid starter on a very good team. Think Tristan Thompson or Iggy type of role--maybe a bigger more skilled PJ Tucker. Bill Laimbeer maybe? Iggy is not the star of the Warriors, but his contribution is essential at times. I am not talking about type of game here, I am talking about level of contribution. I have no doubt he will develop a shot. He already has a shot and makes a good percentage when he takes them. His form is excellent.

He also has a swagger about him. That certain "it" about him that reminds me of Dan Majerle. Its that attitude that says, "I might struggle, but you will never intimidate me." Kaminsky has a deer-in-the-headlights type of manner.

Oh and Slin saying he has played well in the tourney but they played against nothing teams in the reg season. Gonzaga played: Washington, Tex A&M, UCLA, Arizona, SMU, UConn, Tennessee,

I would not want him with our first pick. I am hoping with the Wiz pick.

Yeah of coursr Gonzaga played good teams too, but Sabonis big games came against the likes of San Francisco (35/14), San Diego (17/17) , BYU (18/14), Pacific (23/10), Loyola Mary(21/10), Portland (28/17), St Martins (21/12)...

Gonzaga played only 3 ranked teams in the season Arizona(18/16), UCONN (12/9)and Texas AM (2pts/4reb).

AZ has no NBA caliber frontcourt players, Texas AM has 2 6'10 centers everyone else is 6'7 or under again no talent in the frontcourt and UCONN does not have any NBA talent in the frontcourt either.

Sabonis most impressive game was against Poetl. But I don't rate Poetl at all. To me Poetl is a worse prospect than either Zizic or Zubac.

 

[slinslin]

I have no doubt he will develop a shot. He already has a shot and makes a good percentage when he takes them. His form is excellent.

He only takes jumpshots when he somehow ends up wide open with the ball and the defense dares him to shoot. He gets 0 lift on his jumpshot and this is not an exagerration he almost shoots a setshot. I don't know how that is considered good form, not sure I have ever seen him shoot on the move.
Draftexpress for example specifically mentions lack of shooting touch.

Unfortunately I can't find a shooting stats breakdown for him but I am pretty sure he has very very few attempts from outside the paint.

I am not saying Sabonis is a terrible player, but he is not a good athlete and his game is that of a center.

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Sorry just does not look a NBA PF to me, very much a center however. And I would have strong reservations about the majority of his offensive skills right now translating to the NBA level.

 

[3rdside]

With slin completely; will be far better players at 12 than this guy. He's a centre in a PF's body.


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[hcsilla]

Sabonis seems to be a nice guy to have on your roster or even bench but I doubt he offers more.

I like his motor and that he is always focused plus he is a skilled, finesse post player but he is considerably bigger than his college opponents.

In the NBA he won't have any size advantage and his sizeable deficit in athleticism will probably decrease heavily his efficiency.

He is some kind of mix of David West and Tyler Hansbrough, his future career being probably closer to Hansbrough's than West's.

 

[SirStefan32]

He only takes jumpshots when he somehow ends up wide open with the ball and the defense dares him to shoot. He gets 0 lift on his jumpshot and this is not an exagerration he almost shoots a setshot. I don't know how that is considered good form, not sure I have ever seen him shoot on the move.
Draftexpress for example specifically mentions lack of shooting touch.

Unfortunately I can't find a shooting stats breakdown for him but I am pretty sure he has very very few attempts from outside the paint.

I am not saying Sabonis is a terrible player, but he is not a good athlete and his game is that of a center.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGVwj7E1x8M

Sorry just does not look a NBA PF to me, very much a center however. And I would have strong reservations about the majority of his offensive skills right now translating to the NBA level.

Yeah, he can score in a variety of ways in the low post, he can hit mid-range jumpers, he is a good rebounder, and a smart defender. Yeah, we wouldn't want that on our team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, he can score in a variety of ways in the low post, he can hit mid-range jumpers, he is a good rebounder, and a smart defender. Yeah, we wouldn't want that on our team.

I certainly didn't see anything in that video that made me not want to see him in a Suns uniform. Whether he's a PF or a center in the NBA remains to be seen but he sure looks like a basketball player to me.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Well, Slin. I don't know what more I can say. We just disagree. I guess we will see as his pro career unfolds.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I certainly didn't see anything in that video that made me not want to see him in a Suns uniform. Whether he's a PF or a center in the NBA remains to be seen but he sure looks like a basketball player to me.

I agree. His footwork is excellent. He has a knack for being patient and getting a shot off with all kinds of hands in his face. What that video did not show is his quick feet on defense. He can defend pf's which is the key to playing pf. His is athletic, he is quick and he can run the floor well. He is just not a leaper.

Love him in the mid first round. He would be a really good upgrade over Leuer.

 

[Errntknght]

You completely undid your argument with that video, slin... he made the right play every time the Zags came down the floor. Quibble about his athleticism all you want, I'll take basketball smarts and he's got 'em. Heck, big dude like that, I'm happy to see him not taking contested jumpers. If he had inherited a few more inches of his dad's height he'd be just as good... and that's saying something.

 

[SirStefan32]

I agree. His footwork is excellent. He has a knack for being patient and getting a shot off with all kinds of hands in his face. What that video did not show is his quick feet on defense. He can defend pf's which is the key to playing pf. His is athletic, he is quick and he can run the floor well. He is just not a leaper.

Love him in the mid first round. He would be a really good upgrade over Leuer.

He has one deadly weapon that today's big men don't have in their arsenal, and that's a hook shot. If you develop a reliable hook shot, you can easily score on players much taller, longer, and more athletic. Sabonis is not going to be a star- he obviously doesn't have his dad's size and talent, but he has his dad's IQ, and that will be enough to make him a solid player for some NBA teams for many years.

As a side-note, for those who aren't European, by the time the older Sabonis got to the NBA, he was a shell of his former self. Before his injuries, he was much quicker and more athletic. So, in my first paragraph, the statement about his kid not having his talent is definitely not criticism of the young Sabonis, but rather a compliment to his old man who was an unstoppable force before his injuries.

 

[Chaplin]

Whoa. Bender and Sabonis go head-to-head. And Bender most definitely destroyed Sabonis.

http://www.fibaeurope.com/compID_8a...on_2014.roundID_10067.gameID_10069-B-4-2.html

Granted, this is an old game, but a year and half ago, Bender was doing this...

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Whoa. Bender and Sabonis go head-to-head. And Bender most definitely destroyed Sabonis.


Granted, this is an old game, but a year and half ago, Bender was doing this...

Wow! Nice find. A lot of things certainly could have changed since then, but that's very compelling info.

 

[Mainstreet]

You completely undid your argument with that video, slin... he made the right play every time the Zags came down the floor. Quibble about his athleticism all you want, I'll take basketball smarts and he's got 'em. Heck, big dude like that, I'm happy to see him not taking contested jumpers. If he had inherited a few more inches of his dad's height he'd be just as good... and that's saying something.

Actually I was not enthused on drafting Sabonis but after watching this video it put him in a better light. He maneuvered better in the lane than I thought he could. I liked that he had a hook shot in his arsenal. IMO, he will have trouble getting his shot off in the NBA. I'm reluctant to draft him with the Suns second first round pick.

 

[Mainstreet]

I watched Brice Johnson (North Carolina) play against Syracuse. He looks like he could move up the draft board. He may not be there at the Cleveland pick.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Whoa. Bender and Sabonis go head-to-head. And Bender most definitely destroyed Sabonis.

http://www.fibaeurope.com/compID_8a...on_2014.roundID_10067.gameID_10069-B-4-2.html

Granted, this is an old game, but a year and half ago, Bender was doing this...

It's one game. Look at the body of work. Besides its just a box score. Doesn't even tell what happened in the game. I am not arguing Sabonis over Bender, it's just that doesn't tell much.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I watched Brice Johnson (North Carolina) play against Syracuse. He looks like he could move up the draft board. He may not be there at the Cleveland pick.

Shawn Marion type athlete. He certainly is intriguing. No way he is there with the Cleveland pick.

 

[Chaplin]

It's one game. Look at the body of work. Besides its just a box score. Doesn't even tell what happened in the game. I am not arguing Sabonis over Bender, it's just that doesn't tell much.

I'm not saying he's the second coming, but those types of stats in ANY international game are highly unusual. Ignore it, fine.