2016 NBA Draft thread

[hcsilla]

Dunn is considerably bigger than Bledsoe and IMO more of a PG.

Their playing style quite similar both depend upon their physical abilites.

 

[Mainstreet]

Do you really want a back up pg with the #3 pick? He has to be starter worthy, even if that demands trading another player.

Dunn would only be a backup PG until he is ready to be a starter. He seems to possess a lot of tools to be a very good PG. When I watch video on him I am impressed by his quickness, physique and ability to get to the basket. He has a lot of traits that says he can become a star. He also solves a huge problem at the PG position. The Suns may not have a true PG on their roster. Trades can always be made if the Suns have a surplus at the guard position.

I've only recently become intrigued by Dunn after watching video tape on him. He is a specimen. I'm not locked onto him but he would alleviate concerns about Bledsoe's knees and possibly, he may be the BPA at #3. I previously had the Suns looking to add a PG in the second round.

 

[slinslin]

I think Dunn could drop.

He was a medical red shirt wasn't he? He turns 23 in his rookie season, questionable shot, tends to be turnover prone and who knows what his medical record is. He stunned everyone when he did not come out last year when he was projected a #10-16 pick much like Booker. But his junior year was about the same as his sophomore season and statistically less efficient.

He is kind of like Archie Goodwin in a sense, though a bit smarter passer and more natural shooter.

 

[hcsilla]

Do you really want a back up pg with the #3 pick? He has to be starter worthy, even if that demands trading another player.

Dunn is definitely starter worthy, but the best case scenario is drafting him at the spot acquired for Knight, plus be lucky at the lottery and take Simmons.

BTW, comparing Simmons to Beasley is very pessimistic/absurd.

1st of all Beasley did look like a future superstar in college. I do not think that anyone thought of him becoming a bust.

Now people are getting superstitious/overcautios, however Simmons is showing more special skills (passing, quickness/body control especially considering his height) than Beasley did.

I think that Beasley was a very rare exception and it is even more unlikely that Simmons will follow his path.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think Dunn could drop.

He was a medical red shirt wasn't he? He turns 23 in his rookie season, questionable shot, tends to be turnover prone and who knows what his medical record is. He stunned everyone when he did not come out last year when he was projected a #10-16 pick much like Booker. But his junior year was about the same as his sophomore season and statistically less efficient.

He is kind of like Archie Goodwin in a sense, though a bit smarter passer and more natural shooter.

I think I am tending to agree here. Dunn's stats were not that much better in the 15-16 than in 14-15. He shot the three a little better, but the 2 a little worse. His assists dropped by more than 1 per game, but his turnovers dropped too.

I think I would take Hield over Dunn.

 

[hcsilla]

I would take Dunn over Hield without any hesitation.

 

[slinslin]

I still like Skal Labissiere, no matter the disappointing season. Hard to say how he would have looked on a less stacked team where he could play more through mistakes and be more of a focal point like Marquese Chriss.

He has all the tools to be a great player and I would not be surprised if 5 years from now he is the best player from this draft.

 

[slinslin]

On that note since we talked about Buddy Hield.

What would make him a better pick than Jamal Murray? Same size, both exposive scorers, both great shooters.

Hield is a senior, Murray a freshman.

Hield is more athletic. Murray has better handles I guess.

Murray 6'5 207lbs
Hield 6'4 214lbs

Murray turns 20 in 2017 20.0ppg 5.2rpg 2.2apg 1.0spg 0.3bpg 45.4%FG 40.8%3s 78.3%FT 7.7 3PA/G
Hield turns 23 in 2016 25.4ppg 5.7rpg 2.0apg 1.1spg 0.5bpg 50.4%FG 46.5%3s 88.9%FT 8.7 3PA/G

Among two very good shooters, Hield is still considerably more efficient but he is also ~40 months older.

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[JCSunsfan]

On that note since we talked about Buddy Hield.

What would make him a better pick than Jamal Murray? Same size, both exposive scorers, both great shooters.

Hield is a senior, Murray a freshman.

Hield is more athletic. Murray has better handles I guess.

Murray 6'5 207lbs
Hield 6'4 214lbs

Murray turns 20 in 2017 20.0ppg 5.2rpg 2.2apg 1.0spg 0.3bpg 45.4%FG 40.8%3s 78.3%FT 7.7 3PA/G
Hield turns 23 in 2016 25.4ppg 5.7rpg 2.0apg 1.1spg 0.5bpg 50.4%FG 46.5%3s 88.9%FT 8.7 3PA/G

Among two very good shooters, Hield is still considerably more efficient but he is also ~40 months older.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCSMX0vVmOI

Simple answer, Hield's shooting has become absolutely extra-ordinary. His shooting for an entire season is in the Steve Nash/Steph Curry range. It is not very likely that Murray will rise to that level. While his shooting is good now, most players level off right where Murray is. It is almost a guarantee that Murray will never reach Hield's level of efficiency.

The reason younger players are preferred is because of the possibility they may become alot better in the future. Hield is already at the level that you only hope Murray might become.

You look at Hield and he has an NBA body. He is not huge, but clearly in the range. He is strong, has size, has quickness and athleticism. His shot is an NBA shot. He can shoot way beyond NBA three point range. He has an incredibly quick release and has a variety of little moves that allow him to get the space to shoot.

Hield's shooting stats are significantly better than Curry's were in his last year, and he does not have the small body that was a concern about Curry. Think about that. That does not mean he will continue to improve like Curry, but wow. Hield plays in a tougher conference. It is so rare to see a player who is that efficient on that high volume of shooting and shooting is the #1 desired skill in today's NBA.

Hield: Last year 2pt (.549) 3pt (.465) 4yrs 2pt (.507) 3pt (.393)
Curry: Last year 2pt (.519) 3pt (.387) 3yrs 2pt (.530) 3pt (.412)

His floor is the highest among the top 7. He is the safest pick. No GM is going to get fired over picking Hield. I think CBS sports was having a discussion of whether Hield has played himself into the #1 slot in the draft. This is not a silly discussion. Whoever gets that #1 pick is going to look at Steph Curry, and even how Devin Booker has fared this year, and they are going to think long and hard about it.

I might be as happy to get Hield as Ingram or Simmons.

 

[sunsfan88]

Are you sure? I try to know as little about that stupid segment as possible but I would have thought that Kendrick Perkins was in the top 2.

During the summer they have an award thing for that segment and I caught a part of it in which they awarded McGee but said Knight was runner up and showed many of his plays.

 

[sunsfan88]

If you take the best available and you are picking that high, AND its a already a position of strength on the team, you have to trade someone. You cannot convey the illusion that they will all play together.

In this draft, it might be better to trade the pick.

If a trade is imminent to happening immediately after the selection then yes, it eases the concern.

 

[slinslin]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/is-buddy-hield-s-draft-stock-skyrocketing-170808046.html

Some perspective on Hield

What I took away from it:
- there have been a bunch of similiar scoring/shooting seasons in the NCAAB. Some became stars

Stars 6: Stephen Curry, CJ McCollum, Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller
Solid 8: Hersey Hawkins, Antonio Daniels, JJ Reddick, Jodie Meeks, Kevin Martin, Lucius Harris, Hubert Davis, Dale Ellis
Scrubs 5: Joe Young, Bo Kimble, Morris Almond, Shawn Respert, Byron Irvin

So roughly 25% Star, 25% Bust, 50% Solid

The stars in that group are really big time stars though with the exception or McCollum and Irving.

- Hield has the third worst passing metrics of DXs guard prospect database for this draft

 

[Russ Smith]

I'd never seen Hield play until last year when they played UCLA in the bahamas. Norman Powell had done a great job on him but he smartly drew a 4th foul on Powell and he had to sit. Hield then went bananas scoring like 15 points in 4 minutes or something similar and OU went from behind to well ahead and won the game. Been following him ever since then and he is considerably better this year than last.

So even though he's a senior and not young, he's improve so much in the last year who am I to say he can't still get better?

 

[JCSunsfan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/is-buddy-hield-s-draft-stock-skyrocketing-170808046.html

Some perspective on Hield

What I took away from it:
- there have been a bunch of similiar scoring/shooting seasons in the NCAAB. Some became stars

Stars 6: Stephen Curry, CJ McCollum, Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller
Solid 8: Hersey Hawkins, Antonio Daniels, JJ Reddick, Jodie Meeks, Kevin Martin, Lucius Harris, Hubert Davis, Dale Ellis
Scrubs 5: Joe Young, Bo Kimble, Morris Almond, Shawn Respert, Byron Irvin

So roughly 25% Star, 25% Bust, 50% Solid

The stars in that group are really big time stars though with the exception or McCollum and Irving.

- Hield has the third worst passing metrics of DXs guard prospect database for this draft

Very interesting list. Some of the players on that list would be even better with todays NBA rules (Reggie Miller, Dale Ellis). Some are significantly shorter or less athletic than Hield (Respert, Hawkins, Redick). Some had higher shooting percentages because they practically never shot threes (Antonio Daniels). Hield is tied for second on that list with Reggie Miller.

I would say it bodes well for the young man.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'd never seen Hield play until last year when they played UCLA in the bahamas. Norman Powell had done a great job on him but he smartly drew a 4th foul on Powell and he had to sit. Hield then went bananas scoring like 15 points in 4 minutes or something similar and OU went from behind to well ahead and won the game. Been following him ever since then and he is considerably better this year than last.

So even though he's a senior and not young, he's improve so much in the last year who am I to say he can't still get better?

All that it takes for Hield to be a star is to perform the same way on the next level. Easier said than done, of course.

 

[Phrazbit]

Update on the Wizards pick. Looking like for sure lotto right now. They're 3 back with only 8 games left, essentially 4 back if they end up tied with the Pacers as Indy has the tie breaker. Where it lands between 12-14 is up in the air, them, the Bulls and the Mavs are in a dead heat, but it will drop no lower than 12th.

At this point all we will need to sweat is the like 1.8% chance they jump into the top 3 in the lotto. Which... knowing our luck is probable.

 

[slinslin]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article...raft-Scouting-Report-and-Video-Breakdown-5408

Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss!

I see a lot of young Amare in his game.

 

[JCSunsfan]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article...raft-Scouting-Report-and-Video-Breakdown-5408

Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss! Marquese Chriss!

I see a lot of young Amare in his game.

Rebounding defense rebounding defense rebounding defense rebounding defense. Yep. His offense is not as good as Amare and neither is his defense or rebounding.

5.6. Key number. His rebound per game for the year. We need two way players, especially at the pf position.

 

[slinslin]

He played 25mpg and is a freshman. The raw rebounding numbers are a tad misleading and he is one of the best offensive rebounders in the country.

Plus we have very strong rebounders at center.

Also Chriss is a very good shotblocker.

And the modern PF plays a lot more like a SF. There are not many PF averaging double digit rebounds in the NBA. Julius Randle is the only PF in fact and I doubt that lasts long.

Chriss has all the tools in the world to be a two-way player. Not many PFs in this draft that I could say this about. A PF needs to have a jumper and range, needs to be able to face up, set picks, roll to the basket - Chriss excels at all these things. Like I said he would be a great fit with the talents of our other players. We desperately need athleticism in the frontcourt. Pretty sure we currently have the least athletic combination of 3s/4s/5s in the league.

 

[slinslin]

Anyone think one of these teams might bite for Knight?

Knight, Goodwin, #28, #33 for Rudy Gay and Sacramento #7
or
Knight, Goodwin, #28, #33 for Omer Asik and New Orleans #6

 

[JCSunsfan]

Anyone think one of these teams might bite for Knight?

Knight, Goodwin, #28, #33 for Rudy Gay and Sacramento #7
or
Knight, Goodwin, #28, #33 for Omer Asik and New Orleans #6

I think those are in the ballpark. New Orleans is going to need to pile up some assets. I don't think they are that high on Asik and might want to dump him. Sac could bite too. I would think both of them would prefer to get the Wiz pick instead of some of the other assets.

There IS going to be a deal somewhere. There just has to be. The Suns have too many assets. They will want to try to turn quantity into quality.

 

[Errntknght]

He played 25mpg and is a freshman. The raw rebounding numbers are a tad misleading and he is one of the best offensive rebounders in the country.

Plus we have very strong rebounders at center.

Also Chriss is a very good shotblocker.

And the modern PF plays a lot more like a SF. There are not many PF averaging double digit rebounds in the NBA. Julius Randle is the only PF in fact and I doubt that lasts long.

Chriss has all the tools in the world to be a two-way player. Not many PFs in this draft that I could say this about. A PF needs to have a jumper and range, needs to be able to face up, set picks, roll to the basket - Chriss excels at all these things. Like I said he would be a great fit with the talents of our other players. We desperately need athleticism in the frontcourt. Pretty sure we currently have the least athletic combination of 3s/4s/5s in the league.

In this case its not too misleading - 5.6 per 25 converts to 8.1 per 36 while the league average for all 110 PFs is 8.9 per 36. Another way to put it, he ranks is the 38th percentile - and thats against collegians so he'll probably do worse when he's in the league.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We need a pf. The best job description for the pf we need would be:

Rebounds exceptionally well,
plays good D in the midrange out to the three point line,
passes well, not a black hole on offense,
emotional leader,
excellent work ethic,
locker room leader,
shoots effeciently out to 18 feet.

Draymond Green type of player.

 

[hcsilla]

We need a pf. The best job description for the pf we need would be:

Rebounds exceptionally well,
plays good D in the midrange out to the three point line,
passes well, not a black hole on offense,
emotional leader,
excellent work ethic,
locker room leader,
shoots effeciently out to 18 feet.

Draymond Green type of player.

That basically describes Ben Simmons provided he improves his good-looking jumpshot.

Simmons' one possible comparison is a taller version of Draymond Green anyway.

 

[sunsfan88]

In this case its not too misleading - 5.6 per 25 converts to 8.1 per 36 while the league average for all 110 PFs is 8.9 per 36. Another way to put it, he ranks is the 38th percentile - and thats against collegians so he'll probably do worse when he's in the league.

Yea especially since rebounding is actually the one skill that always translates well from college to the pros.