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slinslin
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Laughable, Booker is not going anywhere. Not even for #1.
2016 NBA Draft thread
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Laughable, Booker is not going anywhere. Not even for #1.
When did Booker become a franchise level player? Also, I did not say he was going anywhere. I said, if the Suns are convinced they can get a franchise player at 3, he shouldn't be untouchable. Obviously, if the Suns were willing to part with him they would have their doubts as well. If they think he is a franchise level player, naturally they wouldn't be willing to trade him. That was the point.
In other words, if they are convinced they can get a franchise player at #3, IMO, they should consider it as long as the asking price isn't ridiculous as I suggested above.
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Sunburn
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When did anyone in this draft become a franchise player? Booker has proven more than any of them.
Did I say that? No. I said if the Suns feel there is based on their evaluation you do what you need to within reason.
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couldn't agree more with this post.
Sunburn
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I get where you're trying to go with this, but you have to keep the context of this draft in mind. With the players that are available in this draft, this statement seems so far out of left field that it's ridiculous, with all due respect. None of these guys are considered game changers, especially not at 3. Trust me, the Suns don't think any player in this draft is good enough to trade Booker for, let alone the third pick. This would be like selling the engine in your car to pay for your transmission repair.
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Fair enough. I think it's equally ridiculous that nobody in this draft has equivalent or more potential than Booker no matter how thin I think it is. It's just another case of fans overvaluing our own players....again.
Not that I don't think Booker has potential.
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slinslin
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Even if you did not believe that Booker has superstar potential he is still not going to be traded.
Booker is a poster child for this team. Something that for example a star like Cousins can never be eventhough Cousins is a superstar as a player.
Booker is a poster child for this team. Something that for example a star like Cousins can never be eventhough Cousins is a superstar as a player.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devin_Booker
On January 2, 2016, Booker scored a then season-high 21 points in a 142–119 loss to the Sacramento Kings.[69] Only Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, LeBron James, Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant scored 19+ points more than once at a younger age than Booker.[70] With his first double-double coming on January 6 with 17 points and a season-high 10 rebounds against the Charlotte Hornets,[71] he became the fifth-youngest player in NBA history to record a double-double behind LeBron James, Andrew Bynum, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, and became the youngest player to ever do so in Phoenix Suns franchise history.[72] On January 19, he scored 32 points in a 97–94 loss to the Indiana Pacers, setting a Suns' rookie record with six made three-pointers. Booker became the third-youngest player in NBA history at 19 years, 81 days old to record a 30-point game, as well as the youngest Suns player to score 30 or more points in a game. LeBron James and Kevin Durant are the only two players who were younger than Booker to score 30 in a game.[73] On February 10, Booker recorded his second double-double of the season with 15 points and 10 assists in a 112–104 loss to the Golden State Warriors.[74] On February 12, Booker scored 23 points for Team USA in the 2016 Rising Stars Challenge.[75] The following day, he competed in the NBA All-Star Weekend's Three-Point Contest, becoming the youngest contestant to ever participate in the event and only the fourth rookie to compete in the 30-year-old contest,[76] joining Stephen Curry (2010), Kyle Korver (2004) and Dennis Scott (1991).[77][78] He made it to the final round of the event, beating out both James Harden and J. J. Redick in a tiebreaker event after the first round, where he finished third behind the Splash Brothers – Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson (winner).[79]
On March 3, Booker scored a then career-high 34 points in a loss to the Miami Heat,[80] becoming the first Suns rookie since Richard Dumas in the 1992–93 season to record multiple 30+ point games for the team and the fourth-youngest player to do it in a season.[81] His third 30-point game came on March 9 against the New York Knicks, finishing with 32 points to join Walter Davis (17) and Alvan Adams (6) as the only Suns rookies with 3+ 30-point games.[82] A day later, Booker recorded his second-straight 30+ point game (third in a week and fourth overall at the time) by setting a new career-high with 35 points in a loss to the Denver Nuggets,[83] joining LeBron James as the only teenagers in NBA history with back-to-back 30+ point games.[84] On March 12, he recorded his third double-double of the season with 18 points and a career-high 11 assists in a 123–116 loss to the Golden State Warriors,[85] becoming the first Suns rookie with multiple points/assists double-doubles since Negele Knight (3) in the 1990–91 season.[86] He recorded his fifth 30-point game of the season (fourth in a month) on March 28 against the Minnesota Timberwolves.[87] Throughout the month of March, Booker led all rookies in points (22.4) and assists (4.9) per game.[88] His sixth and final 30-point game of the season came on April 5 in a loss to the Atlanta Hawks, scoring 34 points on 12-of-25 shooting.[89] On April 9, with 16 points scored in a 121–100 win over the New Orleans Pelicans, Booker reached 1,014 for the season, making him the fourth-youngest player to reach 1,000 career points, following only LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant, as well as the third-youngest during their rookie season.[90] Booker finished his rookie campaign with 1,048 points at an average of 13.8 per game. He appeared in 76 of the team's 82 games in 2015–16, a season that saw the Suns finish with the second-worst record in the West (23–59) and the second-worst record in franchise history.[91] In addition, Booker made 51 starts and averaged 2.5 rebounds and 2.6 assists per game, earning him praise from fellow NBA players such as Klay Thompson, Dwyane Wade and Kobe Bryant.[92] He finished fourth in the 2016 NBA Rookie of the Year Award voting[93] and earned NBA All-Rookie First Team honors.[94] He became the first Suns player to be named an All-Rookie Team member (either first or second) since Amar'e Stoudemire did so in 2003.
Am I overvaluing him? Can you honestly guarantee me any player in this draft has more potential? Which player? Why trade away what seems like a fairly sure thing for an unknown?
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Beaver
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ESPN has a draft trade article up now and has this doozy. What do you guys think?
Knicks send: Carmelo Anthony and Robin Lopez to Cleveland
Cavaliers send: Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Mo Williams and Sasha Kaun to Phoenix
Suns send: Eric Bledsoe to Cleveland; Brandon Knight, Alex Len, P.J. Tucker, Archie Goodwin and the Nos. 4 and 13 picks to New York
Knicks send: Carmelo Anthony and Robin Lopez to Cleveland
Cavaliers send: Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Mo Williams and Sasha Kaun to Phoenix
Suns send: Eric Bledsoe to Cleveland; Brandon Knight, Alex Len, P.J. Tucker, Archie Goodwin and the Nos. 4 and 13 picks to New York
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slinslin
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Overpay from us and shortsighted.
New York sucks the value out of that trade.
New York sucks the value out of that trade.
elindholm
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Thought up by a Knicks fan, obviously. Sucks for Cleveland and sucks even worse for Phoenix.
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I doubt Cleveland would be interested but I'd do that deal. I'd try and talk the Knicks into including their 2017 1st but even without it, I absolutely do it. At first blush it looks like we're giving up too much but it's 2 lottery picks in an unexciting draft and two oft-injured guards plus a collection of nobodies. Although I haven't checked contract situations but assuming we have a good chance of keeping what we've traded for, it's a steal for us, unless you think Len is destined for something close to greatness.
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slinslin
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If you took out Len and the #4 pick I would consider it.
Knight, Tucker, Goodwin, #13 - no way I would consider more than that fair for Carmelo Anthony.
Knight, Tucker, Goodwin, #13 - no way I would consider more than that fair for Carmelo Anthony.
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slinslin
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Irving misses just as many games as Bledsoe.
I think Bledsoe for Irving is a wash and then you have us giving up Knight, Len, #4, #13, Tucker and Goodwin for Love? That is an utter joke.
Plus our lineup after this trade would not even be good. We would be a disaster on defense with Irving, Booker, Warren and Love.
Plus we would call for Irvings head because he would reduce Booker to a spot up shooter while t aking 25 shots per game and overdribbling.
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Assuming we don't make a big trade, I think I'm leaning towards Hield at 4, Deyonta Davis at 13 (or Ellenson/Sabonis/Skal if Davis gone), Bolomboy at 28 and Ulis/GP with the 34th pick.
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slinslin
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Why Hield? He is probably the worst fit and the oldest possible player at #4.
Davis to me comes across as stupid and pretty limited player. His interview with draft express seems to me like a player who overrates himself and lacks the ability to self-reflect.
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I think Deyonta Davis is comparable to Ed Davis. Big man journeyman who lacks the offensive skills to be a power forward.Bolomboy seems like a massive reach at 28.
I would be pretty upset with that draft.
Drafting Jodie Meeks, Ed Davis, a guy who will be out of the league in a few years and a 3rd string PG seems like a pretty bad haul for having #4, 13, 28, 34. In case of Hield I don't think Meeks is his ceiling but its possible he does not amount to more.
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I'm not the biggest Kyrie fan but Bledsoe for Irving is hardly a wash. The rest of the league would laugh at us for suggesting they were even close. Knight hasn't had a healthy month since we traded for him, the lottery picks this year are of less value than usual and neither Tucker nor Goodwin has any real trade value. If you think Len is about to turn the corner and become something special (and I don't rule this out), maybe it's a bad trade. But if you think Len is a tease, it's a great trade for us.
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slinslin
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Most advanced stats love Bledsoe and hate Irving. I'd take a healthy Bledsoe over Irving every time. And the injury issue really does not matter here, Irving is constantly injured himself. Bledsoe just does more, he fills the stat sheet with rebounds, steals even blocks and ranks as one of the premier defenders while Kyrie Irving is one of the worst defenders in the entire league. Bledsoe shoots better percentages, does not dominate the ball as much as Irving and gets more assists.
The only thing Irving has over Bledsoe is that scoring potential of huge games but I would gladly pass on that for someone who contributes in more ways than just scoring. Especially since we have Booker. Bledsoe and Booker is a much much better fit than Irving and Booker imo.
I think the only ones laughing at that are people who are misinformed, don't understand advanced stats and judge players by media hype.
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Bolomboy might be a gamble but there's really no such thing as a reach at 28. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ulis walk on to the court day one as our best all around point guard even as tiny as he is. Davis has very little in common with Ed Davis but the Meeks comp is an absolute joke. Hield is much closer to Harden than Meeks and while he's not really what I wanted for our team, going BPA is a must at 4 for a team with so little talent. Maybe we don't keep him long term but it shouldn't be that hard to create a trade market for him.
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slinslin
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I just cant get a positive vibe from Deyonta Davis, I don't think anyone can after watching that interview. I was decently high ony Davis before but after hearing and seeing him in that interview I immediately put him down as a guy "who simply does not have it" in my mind.
I don't mind Hield but Meeks was great in college too. I don't see Hield being that good with the ball or creating for others to warrant comparison to Harden. Also he is a straight SG nothing else. He offers no positional flexibility.
I could see the Suns taking him and speculating that Booker can play the 3 if he is really still growing so
Booker/Warren/Tucker
Knight/Hield/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Price
But I would prefer to keep Booker at SG full time and get a real SF.
I don't mind Hield but Meeks was great in college too. I don't see Hield being that good with the ball or creating for others to warrant comparison to Harden. Also he is a straight SG nothing else. He offers no positional flexibility.
I could see the Suns taking him and speculating that Booker can play the 3 if he is really still growing so
Booker/Warren/Tucker
Knight/Hield/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Price
But I would prefer to keep Booker at SG full time and get a real SF.
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Irving misses a lot of games, Bledsoe misses more and beyond that there has to be concern about his longterm viability plus he's 2.25 years older than Kyrie. And no, Bledsoe is NOT one of the premier defenders. He could be, he should be, but he isn't.
I was always a little concerned by Eric's off the ball defense but his on ball defense took a huge hit over his last 100 games or so. He's still capable of in your face defense on the ball-handler but he gives up far too many easy baskets when he's not focused. On offense, despite signs of improvement, he's still a huge live-ball turnover risk. And they seem to come in the biggest of moments.
I like watching Eric play when he's on. I don't like watching Kyrie play even when he's at his best. It's like watching Brandon Knight. But of the 3 of them, Irving comes the closest to being able to carry a team and lately he's been showing the ability to be a better on-court teammate too (better than he had been, not necessarily better than Eric). I'm not crazy about the idea of acquiring him or Kevin Love but to me it looks like a huge upgrade in talent (again, assuming Len is roughly what he'll become).
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slinslin
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Please tell me where there are concerns about long term viability. None of Bledsoe's injuries had any concern for long term issues. Irvings foot problems are more problematic in that regard.
And 2 years age difference is really not a big deal.
Irving would be a disaster for Booker.
Irving coming closest to carrying a team is ridiculous. What is he carrying? He plays alongside maybe the best player of all time. Before that he was carrying the Cavs to #1 picks and nothing else. He never proved he could be the man on a decent team.
Bledsoe ranked top 10 in DRPM, like pretty much every year so I would like to see how you back up the claim that Beldsoes defense took a "huge hit". Kyrie Irving ranks like 3rd last in the entire NBA in defensive rpm.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1
2013/014 Bledsoe ranked 1st in DRPM, 2014/2015 Bledsoe ranked 3rd best among PGs in terms of DRPM, 2015/2016 he was still 9th.
Kyrie Irving on other hand 83rd of 85 in 2015/2016. Only Zach Lavine and JJ Barea graded worse defensively. 2014/2015 Irving ranked 37th defensively and 2013/2014 he ranked 59th of 67.
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I haven't watched the interview of Davis, maybe I'll check it out. I typically don't like to listen to interviews though as the questions are often so moronic. But I think Davis is one of the players in this class that has a legit chance to be the best of this draft when analyzed years from now. And he has a pretty solid floor in addition to filling a real positional need for us.
As for Meeks, he was good in college but he was never this great. Buddy had a PER over 28, I don't know what Jodie's was but I highly doubt it was anywhere close to that number as that's pretty rare.
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slinslin
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Meeks averaged 24ppg 4rpg 2apg shot 46%FG and 40%3s as a JUNIOR.
Hield averaged 25ppg 6rpg 2apg shot 50%FG and 46% as a SENIOR. played 36mpg
Hields stats a junior are considerably worse than Meeks.
I can't find the mpg Meeks played but he was national player of the year candidate and shattered several Kentucky records including for 3pters made.
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