2016 NBA Draft thread

[AzStevenCal]

Jamal Murrays value for the Suns hinges completely on how you rate him as a potential fit alongside Booker.

If you dont think he has enough PG skills and cant cover PGs he is probably not a good fit.

I really like Dejounte Murray as a PG fit for the future. Would consider him strongly at #13 if we go Chriss first or Labissiere is off the board.

Although there are obvious differences, I think he's a bit like Archie Goodwin. Teams will find it hard to get him serious minutes because of his shortcomings. He has no range, doesn't pass well or finish well and turns it over too much. But he has a nice floater and great measurements. Will that be enough? I don't think so but for some reason he's vaulting up a lot of draft boards right now.

As for Murray, I'd probably say yes if we were confident of Bledsoe's health going forward and if Booker wasn't already in house. Ideally he's a 2 with some PG skills but paired with a good defender at the point. As it is, I just don't know if we can survive him defensively. I'd rather go with Chriss (or Bender) and if it's reasonably cheap, move up a few spots with our 2nd pick and grab Skal.

 

[3rdside]

Just to check I wasn't seeing things:

https://youtu.be/U0Epg_sBZq4

He makes a nice pass at 5.10 but that is literally the only thing that stood out. I'll pay his defence for sure - he did look solid - but do you really want your #4 pick to be a 3 and D guy, who's career 3pt is 27% (FT 75%) and who's agility and playmaking ability is, for example, less than makers? And his drives to the hoop are weak.

IMO taking bender any where near top 5 is a mistake.




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[slinslin]

Gambo claims that Devin Booker is still growing is now at 6'7 in shoes so the Suns would consider drafting Hield or Murray and move Devin to the 3.

*sigh* even at 6'7 I think you are just happy with the extra length at the 2. Klay Thompson is also 6'7.

 

[elindholm]

Gambo claims

I thought we all agreed that he hasn't had any legitimate information for years?

 

[GatorAZ]

He could probably play some SF eventually but it shouldn't be his primary position. According to Coro he said TJ Warren looks "swollen" as he's been lifting. I'm more comfortable with him getting some minutes at the 4 than Booker at the 3.

Gambo said the Suns "love" Murray and then said he "thinks" they like Murray in the same segment. I don't even... Our best hope is Philly's desperation to get Murray or Dunn at 4 via trade (although Dunn & Simmoms aren't a great fit).

 

[Covert Rain]

Bender is not a #4 pick IMO. He looks like a guy that could become a competent center in the the NBA and those guys are hard to come by. So he will be gone by the Suns second pick but it's still a reach IMO to take him before pick 10 or so.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just to check I wasn't seeing things:

https://youtu.be/U0Epg_sBZq4

He makes a nice pass at 5.10 but that is literally the only thing that stood out. I'll pay his defence for sure - he did look solid - but do you really want your #4 pick to be a 3 and D guy, who's career 3pt is 27% (FT 75%) and who's agility and playmaking ability is, for example, less than makers? And his drives to the hoop are weak.

IMO taking bender any where near top 5 is a mistake.

Thinking we the fans know anything about Bender is the real mistake. Yes, the video you showed is less than impressive. Big surprise. He's already the youngest person in this draft and that video is almost a year old so you're looking at a very young 17 year old there. He isn't ready for the NBA but the only people that have a clue about his true potential are the ones that have worked him out and interviewed him because nobody really has enough game evidence to reach any conclusions.

I'm not necessarily sold on Bender at any spot but if we take him at 4, I won't be disappointed. I'm still not in love with any of these guys and my first inclination is to probably take Chriss but we're all dealing from a position of ignorance when it comes to Dragan. If Ryan and company are sold on him then I'm going to feel pretty good about him.

And the experts that do like him insist he will become (not is, but will BECOME) a very good two way stretch 4, not a center. I just hope that if we do take him, we have the patience to wait for him to develop. Because the one thing we probably do know is that unlike Porzingis, he is quite a ways from being NBA ready.

 

[Mainstreet]

Almost every mock I have seen has Bender going in the top four so I believe scouts know more about him than I do.

The Suns will still have options to go PF later in the draft, likely at #13.

Here is what CBS Sports says about him in their mock.

4. Phoenix Suns

Dragan Bender, PF, Israel: Bender is widely regarded as the top draft-eligible prospect who didn't play college basketball this season, and there's little doubt he'll be selected in the top five. He's an 18-year-old forward who should develop into a nice stretch-four at the NBA level. To be clear, Boston has scouted him extensively and could take him third overall. But if the Celtics pass, the Suns probably won't.

If McDonough drafts him, then I'm sure they have scouted him thoroughly.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2016-washingtons-marquese-chriss-soars-into-top-10/

 

[JCSunsfan]

Almost every mock I have seen has Bender going in the top four so I believe scouts know more about him than I do.

The Suns will still have options to go PF later in the draft, likely at #13.

Here is what CBS Sports says about him in their mock.



If McDonough drafts him, then I'm sure they have scouted him thoroughly.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2016-washingtons-marquese-chriss-soars-into-top-10/

If McD is anything he is a draft nerd. He will know everything about these guys.

 

[Mainstreet]

If McD is anything he is a draft nerd. He will know everything about these guys.

This is what I am counting on.

I am still puzzled by the Tyler Ennis selection.

 

[overseascardfan]

This is what I am counting on.

I am still puzzled by the Tyler Ennis selection.

BPA at the time?? Clint Capela went a few picks later, he would have been a good pick.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

For those who are interested in Denzel Valentine...

I read an article yesterday that stated he's taking a targeted approach in workouts and that his agent is trying to get him with the best fit possible rather than making him widely available. He's already worked out for the Jazz, and is on record saying he has only three more scheduled workouts: with the Bucks, Magic, and Bulls.

So he's working out for the teams with picks 10, 11, 12, and 14, but not with the Suns (at least so far). Just thought that was interesting.

 

[Mainstreet]

BPA at the time?? Clint Capela went a few picks later, he would have been a good pick.

I guess one could make the argument Ennis was the BPA, however he was not very athletic and had trouble finishing at the rim. In a lot of ways he reminded me of Kendall Marshall. I didn't want to see the Suns making a similar type pick while Marshall was still a fresh memory. It's the type of mistake that bothered me rather than missing on the pick. Tyler Ennis could still develop but I expected more from him early.

The pickings were slim after Ennis but their were a number of players that could have been drafted at this slot that would have been better like Clint Capela, Kyle Anderson, Nikola Jokic, Dwight Powell and Jordon Clarkson.

Of course hindsight is 100%.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Celtics are aggressively shopping the #3 pick like I thought they would. I wanted the Suns to be in this position.

"[I'm] hearing that No. 3 pick overall is the one that they are really shopping," said Blakely, "trying to be as aggressive as possible in trying to move that pick, because they want to get a difference-making, impact player right now. And they believe using that No. 3 pick, and maybe some other players and/or picks, might be the best way to [make] that happen."

I hope the Suns don't bite but this has been discussed already.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/242221/Celtics-Aggressively-Shopping-3rd-Overall-Pick

 

[slinslin]

For those who are interested in Denzel Valentine...

I read an article yesterday that stated he's taking a targeted approach in workouts and that his agent is trying to get him with the best fit possible rather than making him widely available. He's already worked out for the Jazz, and is on record saying he has only three more scheduled workouts: with the Bucks, Magic, and Bulls.

So he's working out for the teams with picks 10, 11, 12, and 14, but not with the Suns (at least so far). Just thought that was interesting.

He is a shooting guard, we don't need shooting guards.

 

[slinslin]

I guess one could make the argument Ennis was the BPA, however he was not very athletic and had trouble finishing at the rim. In a lot of ways he reminded me of Kendall Marshall. I didn't want to see the Suns making a similar type pick while Marshall was still a fresh memory. It's the type of mistake that bothered me rather than missing on the pick. Tyler Ennis could still develop but I expected more from him early.

The pickings were slim after Ennis but their were a number of players that could have been drafted at this slot that would have been better like Clint Capela, Kyle Anderson, Nikola Jokic, Dwight Powell and Jordon Clarkson.

Of course hindsight is 100%.

I wanted Jokic, Capela, Anderson.

These three graded out near the top in draft prediction metrics based on empirical data.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wanted Jokic, Capela, Anderson.

These three graded out near the top in draft prediction metrics based on empirical data.

This would have nice. I especially like Jokic and Capela.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

He is a shooting guard, we don't need shooting guards.

That's what the Blazers said when they passed on Michael Jordan!

Obviously, Denzel Valentine is far from Michael Jordan in even the best-case scenario (please take this as the hyperbolic example it was intended to be), but I'd like the Suns to do their due diligence on all prospects just the same.

Besides, Valentine has enough positional versatility that he's at least worth a further look.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's what the Blazers said when they passed on Michael Jordan!

Obviously, Denzel Valentine is far from Michael Jordan in even the best-case scenario (please take this as the hyperbolic example it was intended to be), but I'd like the Suns to do their due diligence on all prospects just the same.

Besides, Valentine has enough positional versatility that he's at least worth a further look.

There is so much to like about Valentine, his passing, basketball IQ, and shooting. Paul Coro even had him going #13 to the Suns in his first mock draft.

However, he is a bad defender as he lacks lateral quickness. Also he will likely not be able to turn the corner against NBA defenders and get to the basket. I'm afraid NBA defenders will take away much of his offense. I guess the question is if a team can cover for him on defense.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...mock-draft-paul-coros-first-edition/84618192/

 

[Covert Rain]

The Celtics are aggressively shopping the #3 pick like I thought they would. I wanted the Suns to be in this position.



I hope the Suns don't bite but this has been discussed already.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/242221/Celtics-Aggressively-Shopping-3rd-Overall-Pick

I sort of agree with you only because I think after the first 2....it's probably a big drop. However, the devil is in the details. What is the price?

If the price is simply swamping a pick and one of our players? There is nobody on this roster untouchable IMO. It might be worth it for the gamble of a 3rd pick being a long term piece of your team.

Now if they want a ton of picks, futures with no protection and one of our players? That's a different story. If I was the Suns I low ball (swap pick and player) and stick to it. If they bite great....if not....that's OK too.

 

[slinslin]

We need athleticism in the front court.

We are the least athletic team in the frontcourt by far I would assume. Probably the least athletic frontcourt the Suns have ever had.

Len, Chandler, Teletovic, Leuer, Warren, Tucker - I mean come on when TJ Warren or a 35 year old Chandler is the best athlete among your forwards/center you have a problem.

That is one of the main reasons why the Suns need to stay away from Bender, Sabonis, Poetl, Ellenson.

We are in dire need of athleticism that Chriss, Labissiere, Brown can add to the team. On defense, running the floor, rolling to the rim as finishers on pick and rolls.

 

[Mainstreet]

I sort of agree with you only because I think after the first 2....it's probably a big drop. However, the devil is in the details. What is the price?

If the price is simply swamping a pick and one of our players? There is nobody on this roster untouchable IMO. It might be worth it for the gamble of a 3rd pick being a long term piece of your team.

Now if they want a ton of picks, futures with no protection and one of our players? That's a different story. If I was the Suns I low ball (swap pick and player) and stick to it. If they bite great....if not....that's OK too.

I think if the Celtics thought there was a star player at #3, they would likely keep the pick. My guess is the Celtics want a lot for this pick. Maybe they trade for a player like Okafor.

I think a team trading for the #3 pick will likely want a PG or a SG. The Celtics could live with that if they get the right assets. My guess, if the Suns traded to #3, it would be for Chriss or Bender. I'm not sure there is a huge difference between these two players. One should be available at #4.

I'm not against moving up in this draft but I think it might be better moving up from #13 or #28.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I sort of agree with you only because I think after the first 2....it's probably a big drop. However, the devil is in the details. What is the price?

If the price is simply swamping a pick and one of our players? There is nobody on this roster untouchable IMO. It might be worth it for the gamble of a 3rd pick being a long term piece of your team.

Now if they want a ton of picks, futures with no protection and one of our players? That's a different story. If I was the Suns I low ball (swap pick and player) and stick to it. If they bite great....if not....that's OK too.

IMO there isn't anyone in this draft (including Simmons or Ingram) that's worth Booker by himself let alone Booker and a pick. And as for swapping the 4 for the 3, I wouldn't even give up our 2nd round pick for that swap this season. There is talent in this draft but finding it will be quite the trick. Moving up for it in a year where almost every lottery team after the 1st pick is anxiously looking to trade out or down is an unnecessary move IMO.

 

[GatorAZ]

Maybe the Celtics try to acquire Hayward who played for Brad Stevens at Butler but it's hard to imagine the Jazz letting him go.

Doubling down on Bender and Skal would keep my preference at this point. I'd prefer Chriss but he won't be there at 13.

 

[Covert Rain]

IMO there isn't anyone in this draft (including Simmons or Ingram) that's worth Booker by himself let alone Booker and a pick. And as for swapping the 4 for the 3, I wouldn't even give up our 2nd round pick for that swap this season. There is talent in this draft but finding it will be quite the trick. Moving up for it in a year where almost every lottery team after the 1st pick is anxiously looking to trade out or down is an unnecessary move IMO.

Fair enough but I am not convinced Booker is untouchable either. I see a potential but if the Suns are convinced there is a franchise guy left in the draft at #3? I am OK with it.