2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[AzStevenCal]

Washington is going to quickly realize that Wall's contract is a problem. Simply taking Wall's salary commitment off the books is a lot more than our "crap." For instance, Ariza is an expiring. Trading Ariza for Wall is in effect paying them $40 million for him. That is not crap.

I agree with your overall point but I think they are well already aware that his contract is a huge problem. He's a poor leader. He doesn't shoot well enough for today's game. He has injury concerns. And despite his rep in some circles, he is no longer a great player. But he is still a plus player and it's not like the Wiz are an aging team where the key players are approaching retirement. If it wasn't for that contract I'm sure they'd continue to look for ways to improve their nucleus rather than blowing it up.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree with your overall point but I think they are well already aware that his contract is a huge problem. He's a poor leader. He doesn't shoot well enough for today's game. He has injury concerns. And despite his rep in some circles, he is no longer a great player. But he is still a plus player and it's not like the Wiz are an aging team where the key players are approaching retirement. If it wasn't for that contract I'm sure they'd continue to look for ways to improve their nucleus rather than blowing it up.

Yeah. I need to start being more clear in my posts. They are going to realize how much of a problem Wall's contract is in getting value in a trade. But you are right, they probably already know that. It is fans everywhere, but especially Wizards fans, who are not quite aware of that.

I think Wall is a better player presently than you do. But his injury history is a huge problem. Also, recent history has shown us that vets can easily be highly overrated. So it does give me pause.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah. I need to start being more clear in my posts. They are going to realize how much of a problem Wall's contract is in getting value in a trade. But you are right, they probably already know that. It is fans everywhere, but especially Wizards fans, who are not quite aware of that.

I think Wall is a better player presently than you do. But his injury history is a huge problem. Also, recent history has shown us that vets can easily be highly overrated. So it does give me pause.

I went through team rosters and, to me, he just isn't a top 25 player. Make your own list and see where he falls, you might be surprised (he came in 29th on mine). And if Booker starts playing like he's capable of, that would drop Wall another spot. 29th is still a very good player but the super max is a killer for a top 5 player. For the 29th best player, it's insane. And that's without considering injury risk going forward.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I have three very close friends who all grew up in, and still live in DC. They are total sports nuts and follow their DC teams closely and travel to games, etc. All of them are really negative on Wall. Here’s one guys’ comments (the most basketball knowledgeable of all three):

“I think his injuries are a concern, but not nearly as much as his general negativism. His defense has always been poor. On the whole it is just masked by spectacular blocks (usually the result of lazy D to begin with) and steals. His knees would be helped if the fat Bastard laid off the henessy and cokes and he got in the gym and ran some down and backs. But, who knows, he probably just needs a change of scenery”

 

[elindholm]

“I think his injuries are a concern, but not nearly as much as his general negativism. His defense has always been poor. On the whole it is just masked by spectacular blocks (usually the result of lazy D to begin with) and steals. His knees would be helped if the fat Bastard laid off the henessy and cokes and he got in the gym and ran some down and backs. But, who knows, he probably just needs a change of scenery”

That ties in with the other thread I just started. It seems that the problems with Wall don't really have to do with his injury history, but the injuries are a convenient thing to point to.

 

[Western Font]

This is a broad statement, but I worry that Phoenix is not a place (right now and for the last few years) where an unhappy player goes and gets happier. If the trainers thought they could get a solid 4 years of peak performance, and Wall embraced the trade, then it's a question of what's going the other way. But without those it's a lot of downside.

 

[SirStefan32]

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Sounds like Rozier is at the hair salon with his girlfriend, much like Bledsoe was. Booker liked the status, for what it's worth.

 

[elindholm]

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Sounds like Rozier is at the hair salon with his girlfriend, much like Bledsoe was. Booker liked the status, for what it's worth.

That must be one upscale hair salon.

 

[JCSunsfan]

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Sounds like Rozier is at the hair salon with his girlfriend, much like Bledsoe was. Booker liked the status, for what it's worth.

I thought exactly the same thing when I read this. He also tried to back out of it too, just like Bledsoe.

 

[Proximo]

I thought exactly the same thing when I read this. He also tried to back out of it too, just like Bledsoe.

Check this out - Rozier compared to Canaan

I think most Suns fans have soured on pursuing Terry Rozier at this point, but when you compare his statistical output with Isaiah Canaan, the results are stunning. Take a look at what the two players are doing this season.

• Isaiah Canaan is scoring 8.7 ppg on 43/38/75 shooting. Terry Rozier is scoring 8.4 ppg on 37/35/73 shooting. Canaan's 55.1% TS% far surpasses Rozier's 47.4%.
  
  
• Canaan has more assists than Rozier (3.2 vs 2.1) and AST% (17.0% vs 13.6%).
  
  
• Canaan has 0.8 steals vs 0.6 for Rozier. They have identical STL% of 1.4%.
  
  
• Rozier is a slightly better rebounder, gaining 4.4 per game vs. 2.9 for Canaan.
  

But, you say, surely this is just an anomaly for this season? What about over their careers? Well, the results are pretty much the same.

• Over his career, Canaan has averaged 8.5 pts on 37.3/35.3/83.4 shooting. Rozier has averaged 7.3 pts on 37.6/35.5/76.9 shooting. That's a 53% TS% for Canaan against 49% for Rozier.
  
  
• Their assists are nearly identical at 1.9 for Canaan and 2.1 for Rozier. Their steals are identical at 0.7 for both.
  
  
• Rozier is a better rebounder with 3.5 per game vs. 1.9 for Canaan.
  

Rozier is not the guy the Suns should go after. If he had not over performed in the playoffs last year, nobody would want him.

 

[1Sun]

Check this out - Rozier compared to Canaan

I think most Suns fans have soured on pursuing Terry Rozier at this point, but when you compare his statistical output with Isaiah Canaan, the results are stunning. Take a look at what the two players are doing this season.

• Isaiah Canaan is scoring 8.7 ppg on 43/38/75 shooting. Terry Rozier is scoring 8.4 ppg on 37/35/73 shooting. Canaan's 55.1% TS% far surpasses Rozier's 47.4%.
  
  
• Canaan has more assists than Rozier (3.2 vs 2.1) and AST% (17.0% vs 13.6%).
  
  
• Canaan has 0.8 steals vs 0.6 for Rozier. They have identical STL% of 1.4%.
  
  
• Rozier is a slightly better rebounder, gaining 4.4 per game vs. 2.9 for Canaan.

But, you say, surely this is just an anomaly for this season? What about over their careers? Well, the results are pretty much the same.

• Over his career, Canaan has averaged 8.5 pts on 37.3/35.3/83.4 shooting. Rozier has averaged 7.3 pts on 37.6/35.5/76.9 shooting. That's a 53% TS% for Canaan against 49% for Rozier.
  
  
• Their assists are nearly identical at 1.9 for Canaan and 2.1 for Rozier. Their steals are identical at 0.7 for both.
  
  
• Rozier is a better rebounder with 3.5 per game vs. 1.9 for Canaan.

Rozier is not the guy the Suns should go after. If he had not over performed in the playoffs last year, nobody would want him.

Agreed. Rozier is another one (along with Rubio and Dragic) that I am very nervous is among the targets of Kokoskov, Jones and Sarver to the point of wanting to bite the bullet for John Wall.

 

[JCSunsfan]

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[JCSunsfan]

Little love fest between Rozier and Booker going on. Anyone wonder whether Rozier is actually a starting pg in this league? He had a good run in the playoffs last year but can he actually play the position full time?

Wall, Rozier, Beal all should be available in the next three weeks. Goran maybe too.

 

[1Sun]

Little love fest between Rozier and Booker going on. Anyone wonder whether Rozier is actually a starting pg in this league? He had a good run in the playoffs last year but can he actually play the position full time?

Wall, Rozier, Beal all should be available in the next three weeks. Goran maybe too.

In answer to the Rozier question, hell no! As demonstrated in another post above, Rozier might not be all that much of an upgrade over Isaiah freaking Canaan.

 

[Hoop Head]

Rozier is probably the cheapest of all options but he also might not be able to man the position full time into the future, or do so well enough that it's worth paying to stick around for the future. He will be paid less than Wall, as will virtually anyone since Wall is on a Super Max, but at least his age meshes with our core better than Wall does. If Rozier didn't come out and say that he was expecting an extension in the $20 million a year range then I would be all for pursing him but that is just too much to pay him for what he's done. Even if he finishes well here, that's a hefty price to pay for someone who hasn't been a starter for a full season. It will be Bledsoe 2.0. He and Bledsoe share a lot in common. Both are backing up legit All-Star's and look good in spot minutes. They mainly stand out because they're good defenders. Both lacked a consistent outside shot. Rozier is almost exactly like Bledsoe when we originally acquired him. If we can trade Ariza for him then it'll even be like the Dudley deal to bring in Bledsoe.

 

[elindholm]

If we can trade Ariza for him then it'll even be like the Dudley deal to bring in Bledsoe.

At this point I'd gladly trade Ariza for a lukewarm mound of goat droppings, so if he can bring an actual NBA player, that would be like winning the lottery.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Honestly. I have no problem MAKING Booker play pg. He needs to learn to run the floor and not just look for his own shot. He needs to learn to take care of the ball. I am not against getting pg in the future, but Mikal has all the tools to play well along side Booker for now.

 

[overseascardfan]

Didn't Igor say before the start of the season Booker would not be the PG? Finally he has seen the light. Booker's not perfect but he would be an upgrade over Canaan.

 

[95pro]

Honestly. I have no problem MAKING Booker play pg. He needs to learn to run the floor and not just look for his own shot. He needs to learn to take care of the ball. I am not against getting pg in the future, but Mikal has all the tools to play well along side Booker for now.

Booker at 1 and Bridges at the 2?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Booker at 1 and Bridges at the 2?

Booker at the 1 without a good shooting guard is setting Devin up for failure. So I'd say, yeah, Bridges has to be the 2 so that they can't double and triple Booker all night long.

 

[Mainstreet]

Going after Rozier would almost guarantee the Suns are going to be dependent upon Booker playing a lot of point guard. It would be almost like a combo guard situation like with Canaan.

I'd prefer if the Suns found a passing point guard but I can understand their need to improve now especially with the $150 million arena improvement project coming up for a vote.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opi...going-spend-150-million-suns-area/2072513002/

 

[1Sun]

Going after Rozier would almost guarantee the Suns are going to be dependent upon Booker playing a lot of point guard. It would be almost like a combo guard situation like with Canaan.

I'd prefer if the Suns found a passing point guard but I can understand their need to improve now especially with the $150 million arena improvement project coming up for a vote.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opi...going-spend-150-million-suns-area/2072513002/

Rozier won't improve them at all.

 

[Hoop Head]

Rozier won't improve them at all.

And 3 weeks ago you were practically begging for Rozier. I decided to take you off ignore because I thought you couldn't be spouting the same nonsense still but it seems like you've buried your head deeper in the sand and everything you wanted then wouldn't be good enough now so basically the Suns can't do anything to please you. Fire McD? Oh, too late. Acquire a PG? Not the right one. Fire Igor? Can't keep a coach. I don't think a troll would keep it up this long but who knows. I don't think you like the Suns or basketball though so why do you still follow the team? They can't do anything right, according to you at least. So is it just a desire to complain that you're fulfilling?

 

[1Sun]

And 3 weeks ago you were practically begging for Rozier. I decided to take you off ignore because I thought you couldn't be spouting the same nonsense still but it seems like you've buried your head deeper in the sand and everything you wanted then wouldn't be good enough now so basically the Suns can't do anything to please you. Fire McD? Oh, too late. Acquire a PG? Not the right one. Fire Igor? Can't keep a coach. I don't think a troll would keep it up this long but who knows. I don't think you like the Suns or basketball though so why do you still follow the team? They can't do anything right, according to you at least. So is it just a desire to complain that you're fulfilling?

I never advocated getting Rozier. I advocated getting an NBA-starting-caliber point guard. Rozier isn't even close to that.

 

[Yuma]