2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[JCSunsfan]

The surest way to destroy an asset in the NBA is to pay him too much, especially for too long.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wizards "insiders" are saying that the Wiz have a good firm offer for Wall, but it cannot happen until December 15. Listen. I am going to tell you right now so you all can be prepared. If its us, it is going to include our 2019 pick--not suggesting, I am predicting, and I would not be happy about that I don't think unless there is significant protection.

The only other thing I could see is something like Ryan Anderson, Josh Jackson and Milwaukee pick for Wall and Jason Smith. I cannot imagine the Wiz would want that, but I guess none of us really know what JJ's value is right now. He was highly valuable in August.

 

[Hoop Head]

Wizards "insiders" are saying that the Wiz have a good firm offer for Wall, but it cannot happen until December 15. Listen. I am going to tell you right now so you all can be prepared. If its us, it is going to include our 2019 pick--not suggesting, I am predicting, and I would not be happy about that I don't think unless there is significant protection.

The only other thing I could see is something like Ryan Anderson, Josh Jackson and Milwaukee pick for Wall and Jason Smith. I cannot imagine the Wiz would want that, but I guess none of us really know what JJ's value is right now. He was highly valuable in August.

I have a bad feeling it will be our pick this year and a future 1st. Ariza would be involved, the December 15th date makes that apparent, and one of Melton or Okobo probably included also. We wouldn't need all of them if we had Wall. I hope Jackson isn't included, especially if we're moving Ariza but I think his value is much higher than most suspect. He's played a dozen games in a crowded rotation. Of course Washington's rotation would get crowded adding Ariza and Jackson to Beal and Porter. I have heard some say that Beal could play PG but I'm not so sure of that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Wizards "insiders" are saying that the Wiz have a good firm offer for Wall, but it cannot happen until December 15. Listen. I am going to tell you right now so you all can be prepared. If its us, it is going to include our 2019 pick--not suggesting, I am predicting, and I would not be happy about that I don't think unless there is significant protection.

The only other thing I could see is something like Ryan Anderson, Josh Jackson and Milwaukee pick for Wall and Jason Smith. I cannot imagine the Wiz would want that, but I guess none of us really know what JJ's value is right now. He was highly valuable in August.

I have a bad feeling it will be our pick this year and a future 1st. Ariza would be involved, the December 15th date makes that apparent, and one of Melton or Okobo probably included also. We wouldn't need all of them if we had Wall. I hope Jackson isn't included, especially if we're moving Ariza but I think his value is much higher than most suspect. He's played a dozen games in a crowded rotation. Of course Washington's rotation would get crowded adding Ariza and Jackson to Beal and Porter. I have heard some say that Beal could play PG but I'm not so sure of that.

You guys have us giving up picks for a player that should have huge negative value. And I've read more than one writer who claims they will have to give up multiple picks to move Wall. I really hope the sports writers are correct.

 

[Hoop Head]

You guys have us giving up picks for a player that should have huge negative value. And I've read more than one writer who claims they will have to give up multiple picks to move Wall. I really hope the sports writers are correct.

I know I don't want us to give up a pick but that doesn't mean I believe we can get him without including one, or more than one. I wouldn't give one up for Wall outside of the Bucks pick if I was the one making the deal but I'm not and Sarver isn't taking my calls so we're in position where I'm afraid they'll gamble on Wall, and give up more than they should in order to do so.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Is it not time to talk about Booker at point again after last night.

 

[taz02]

Wizards "insiders" are saying that the Wiz have a good firm offer for Wall, but it cannot happen until December 15. Listen. I am going to tell you right now so you all can be prepared. If its us, it is going to include our 2019 pick--not suggesting, I am predicting, and I would not be happy about that I don't think unless there is significant protection.

The only other thing I could see is something like Ryan Anderson, Josh Jackson and Milwaukee pick for Wall and Jason Smith. I cannot imagine the Wiz would want that, but I guess none of us really know what JJ's value is right now. He was highly valuable in August.

If healthy Wall is exactly what this team needs. 18ppg 9 ast and plays defense. This team needs a bold move and this would certainly qualify.

As for the pick, you'd hope it would at least be top 5 protected but IMO we don't need another rookie anyway and I am tired of the draft being the highlight of the season. We are desperate everyone knows it so I expect to overpay no matter what the suns do.

Offloading Ariza in the process would be a bonus.

 

[taz02]

The suns have the second lowest payroll in the league.

 

[95pro]

haha ariza back to the wizards lol

 

[95pro]

I'll lose it if they do that, they have a chance at getting a top pick again at the rate we're going. and they'll have some room to hopefully sign someone next season, and if they don't, well we can focus on player development as the older guys will be gone or close to it.

 

[Proximo]

Wall would be a horrible move. It might look good for the next two years - but we still won’t contend and his contract will destroy our ability to put anything around booker and ayton till his contract expires.

He is not nearly good enough, and he is too old for his contract.

I think he should have negative trade value, the suns will guarantee their irrelevance for the next 4 years if they trade for him.

 

[slinslin]

but we still won’t contend and his contract will destroy our ability to put anything around booker and ayton till his contract expires.

Geez

How much more do you need than 3 allstar caliber players plus TJ Warren and Mikal Bridges and since Wall wouldn't cost too much to acquire a lot of assets to make further moves.

Since Wall shoud cost so little in a trade, trading for him would be roughly the same as signing Kemba for the max in the offseason.

We are far enough under the relevant cap treshholds that we don't have to worry much about Wall and could even fit in another trade like for Kevin Love.
The last year of Wall and Love's contract could be spicy since it would be the first year of Ayton and Bridges next deal.

He is not nearly good enough, and he is too old for his contract.

He is arguably better than Nash was when we signed him and younger than Nash was.

How is 28 too old?

 

[elindholm]

I'm on the fence about Wall and leaning toward going after him, but not at the cost of next year's pick, unless it's well protected. Some future pick of lesser value, maybe, but not a top-five pick. (And yes, I think that the Suns are still a bottom-five team this season even with Wall, until Ayton develops, Jackson settles down, and Kokoskov figures out how to coach.)

 

[Krangodnzr]

I keep going back and forth on the concept of trading for Wall and I keep coming to the same conclusion:. The Suns will most certainly be terrible for 3-4 years if Wall doesn't work out once his super max kicks in.

That is the major reason the Suns should not even consider Wall. Trading for him ignores his warts. He isn't the right age, has not gotten along with other ball dominant teammates, and his contract will keep severely hamper the team.

If the Suns were betting on LBJ, I'd take that bet, but to me this looks like it could be another Hardaway.

 

[slinslin]

The Suns will most certainly be terrible for 3-4 years if Wall doesn't work out once his super max kicks in.

Why is that? With Booker, Ayton, Wall, Bridges and the amount of future assets we have to finally assemble a solid productive bench we have absolutely ZERO reason to be bad next season.

Say we acquire Wall for Ryan Anderson and Okobo.

Then you can think about Jackson, Ariza, Milwaukee pick for Aaron Gordon, Julius Randle or Kevin Love and suddenly you have a traditional stacked lineup.

But as well as TJ is playing might just as well stick to Wall-Booker-Bridges-Warren-Ayton and bank on Ayton continous growth to cover for Warren's weak rebounding as a 4.

Make moves to acquire solid bench pieces and we should be a playoff team.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He is arguably better than Nash was when we signed him and younger than Nash was.

How is 28 too old?

I disagree. Look at the effect that Nash had on his teammates numbers. Nash was on the NBAs #1 ranked offenses for how many years? Wall gets his numbers but he has never been as good at facilitating an offense overall.

It's not that 28 is too old now; It's the idea that he will be old once that super max kicks in and his injury history might turn him into another Hardaway.

 

[Town Drunk]

I'm on the fence about Wall and leaning toward going after him, but not at the cost of next year's pick, unless it's well protected. Some future pick of lesser value, maybe, but not a top-five pick. (And yes, I think that the Suns are still a bottom-five team this season even with Wall, until Ayton develops, Jackson settles down, and Kokoskov figures out how to coach.)

I agree with this completely. I don’t mind rolling the dice with Wall, but not at the expense of a top 3 pick.

 

[taz02]

No significant FA is going to sign here, hasn't happened in more than 10 years

Suns will have to grossly overpay for even a mid level free agent

The suns have a poor track record in the draft

The Arena is empty

The suns have been irrelevant for 8 years

Drafting another rookie that will take 2 seasons to maybe work out and signing a washed up vet to twice his worth are bad options IMO. Booker is our best PG option but do we really want him playing PG this season and likely next season if we draft a PG.

The team recently fired its GM, is irrelevant, boring, last in almost every statistical category, has an owner with a bad rep. and an empty stadium. Something bold and risky is needed to put this team on the map. Wall is an 18 and 9 PG that plays defense, if there were no health concerns and he was on a good contract he wouldn't be available.

If he washes out we are definitely screwed but that is the case with every max contract. If he plays well and stays healthy we will have a great team.

I say if the medical staff says he's good to go, why not. If there was a better option I'd be all for it.

 

[Proximo]

Geez

How much more do you need than 3 allstar caliber players plus TJ Warren and Mikal Bridges and since Wall wouldn't cost too much to acquire a lot of assets to make further moves.

Since Wall shoud cost so little in a trade, trading for him would be roughly the same as signing Kemba for the max in the offseason.

We are far enough under the relevant cap treshholds that we don't have to worry much about Wall and could even fit in another trade like for Kevin Love.
The last year of Wall and Love's contract could be spicy since it would be the first year of Ayton and Bridges next deal.



He is arguably better than Nash was when we signed him and younger than Nash was.

How is 28 too old?

Kemba is a better player.

28 is not too old but 32/33 is when your game is mainly based off your athleticism, Nash's game never really was.

Ok, so I just took a more in depth look at Wall. To be honest he is statistically better than I thought, and actually I thought he was 29. So I will admit I value him more than I did before your post.

However, his contract is worse than I thought - he is under contract for this year, plus 4 more years. I thought it was 4 years including this year.

Unless he continues to play at a very high level that entire time, and all of our young players plus at least a few of our late round draft picks pan out, we will not be contenders. That is too risky a bet in my book.

It really is this simple - is John Wall a good contract? If the answer is no, you should not want to add him to the team if you have any faith in your management whatsoever.

 

[slinslin]

I disagree. Look at the effect that Nash had on his teammates numbers. Nash was on the NBAs #1 ranked offenses for how many years? Wall gets his numbers but he has never been as good at facilitating an offense overall.

It's not that 28 is too old now; It's the idea that he will be old once that super max kicks in and his injury history might turn him into another Hardaway.

The super max really does not matter.

if we sign a similiar PG like Kemba to the max, it would put us over the cap just the same, the only difference is that we would have more room to the luxury tax but we are so far below that that even with Wall we are nowhere near reaching close.

It could only go dicey in Wall's last season in 2023 if both Ayton and Bridges get paid big time but that is far down the road, CBA might be different then, cap higher whatever.

 

[slinslin]

Kemba is a better player.

28 is not too old but 32/33 is when your game is mainly based off your athleticism, Nash's game never really was.

Ok, so I just took a more in depth look at Wall. To be honest he is statistically better than I thought, and actually I thought he was 29. So I will admit I value him more than I did before your post.

However, his contract is worse than I thought - he is under contract for this year, plus 4 more years. I thought it was 4 years including this year.

Unless he continues to play at a very high level that entire time, and all of our young players plus at least a few of our late round draft picks pan out, we will not be contenders. That is too risky a bet in my book.

It really is this simple - is John Wall a good contract? If the answer is no, you should not want to add him to the team if you have any faith in your management whatsoever.

Kemba was never viewed as a better player until this season where it is in fashion to bash Wall.

 

[slinslin]

I disagree. Look at the effect that Nash had on his teammates numbers. Nash was on the NBAs #1 ranked offenses for how many years? Wall gets his numbers but he has never been as good at facilitating an offense overall.

It's not that 28 is too old now; It's the idea that he will be old once that super max kicks in and his injury history might turn him into another Hardaway.

Wall had a reputation for making his teammates better too. Dudley said Wall got him and others paid.

Wall has consistently been among the assist leaders and is one of the best passers at PG in the league.

Also do you remember Steve Nash under Terry Porter? Not so good eh? Maybe Wall needs a different coach too.

 

[elindholm]

Kemba is a better player.

...who isn't coming to the Suns, you left out.

Unless he continues to play at a very high level that entire time, and all of our young players plus at least a few of our late round draft picks pan out, we will not be contenders. That is too risky a bet in my book.

Contenders? No, the Suns would not be contenders in that scenario, you're right. But if we're setting the bar that high, there's literally no move the Suns can make. The gap between where they are and even being mediocre is enormous.

It really is this simple - is John Wall a good contract? If the answer is no, you should not want to add him to the team if you have any faith in your management whatsoever.

Then we'd better dump Booker while we still can. His contract is only about 70% of Wall's, but it's just as long, his injury history is just as bad, and he plays only one end of the floor.

 

[Proximo]

No significant FA is going to sign here, hasn't happened in more than 10 years

Suns will have to grossly overpay for even a mid level free agent

The suns have a poor track record in the draft

The Arena is empty

The suns have been irrelevant for 8 years

Drafting another rookie that will take 2 seasons to maybe work out and signing a washed up vet to twice his worth are bad options IMO. Booker is our best PG option but do we really want him playing PG this season and likely next season if we draft a PG.

The team recently fired its GM, is irrelevant, boring, last in almost every statistical category, has an owner with a bad rep. and an empty stadium. Something bold and risky is needed to put this team on the map. Wall is an 18 and 9 PG that plays defense, if there were no health concerns and he was on a good contract he wouldn't be available.

If he washes out we are definitely screwed but that is the case with every max contract. If he plays well and stays healthy we will have a great team.

I say if the medical staff says he's good to go, why not. If there was a better option I'd be all for it.

I do not believe the statement no free agent will sign here. The reason they haven't wanted to sign here is there was no hope of winning.

If Ayton and Booker develop, along with Bridges and Warren, we will be good enough to attract good free agents in a couple years. In fact we will be one of the hottest places to sign with.

We are close to turning the corner, I can feel it. The last thing we need to do right now is take on an albatross contract that destroys all flexibility for the next 5 years.

If Ayton, Booker, and Bridges all pan out - do we really need a scoring point guard? No we need a distributor, and role players to put around them. Going after Wall is a very short sighted move.

 

[Proximo]

...who isn't coming to the Suns, you left out.

Contenders? No, the Suns would not be contenders in that scenario, you're right. But if we're setting the bar that high, there's literally no move the Suns can make. The gap between where they are and even being mediocre is enormous.

Then we'd better dump Booker while we still can. His contract is only about 70% of Wall's, but it's just as long, his injury history is just as bad, and he plays only one end of the floor.

So let me get this straight, you are happy with mediocrity? I'm not. If Ayton and Booker match their potential they really can be Kobe and Shaq 2.0. But even if they do reach that potential they need some decent role players around them, especially in the era of super teams.

Seriously you are comparing Booker a 22 year old who is improving every year and is arguably a better player than Wall already with Wall a guy on the downside of his career who has a much larger contract.

No that is not a good comparison. One guy has Kobe like potential, the other is a declining point guard with a bad attitude.