2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Cheesebeef]

Any other team with a competent front office would not have made the moves the Suns did unless they had something lined up to bring in a quality PG, somehow. What that deal would have been, who knows, but virtually everyone took the Ariza signing as a deal being imminent to address the lack of a PG.

No. Most of the people you "hate to agree with" were wondering WTF we were doing drafting and signing wings, using all our cap space while simultaneous using picks that could have been used to trade for a PG.

If a deal wasn't lined up then they knew Knight was healthy and could handle things.

There were plenty of posters here who had zero faith in this, for good reason.

They backed themselves into a corner and rather than attempt to get out of it, they threw Knight away to try to distract from the fact they had no plan.

I really can't think of any team that's been so poorly assembled in the last decade, that's why I say it appeared there was a plan in place. Knowing they willingly put themselves in that position though shows how incompetent all involved are/were.

Believing there was competency coming in the face of all the incompetence before hand is beyond confusing to me and was over the summer. And I wasn't alone there. Lots of people believed they were incompetent before, during and after this summer.

There can't be a plan in place if you don't have a) cap room to capitalize on that plan b) assets to make that plan happen.

 

[1Sun]

Starting to wonder if McD deliberately sabotaged the franchise as payback for what happened to Danny Ainge as a coach here...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

why? what have you actually seen with your own eyes that he's done well as a HC with this team? I could get someone saying "jury's out"... i wouldn't agree, but I could see an argument being made there. but what have you actually seen this season that leads you to believe he's a good HC?

The two positivs I can think of:

1. Assists are way up. That means people are sharing the ball. Less hero ball. Which for this squad ha to be a good thing.

2. When players are playing hard and shots are dropping this team seems to hum. It really hits a nice rhythm. Unfortunately I think that’s only happened in the Mavericks game and the start of the Celtics and lakers games. So take that one with a few tons of salt.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Any other team with a competent front office would not have made the moves the Suns did unless they had something lined up to bring in a quality PG, somehow. What that deal would have been, who knows, but virtually everyone took the Ariza signing as a deal being imminent to address the lack of a PG. If a deal wasn't lined up then they knew Knight was healthy and could handle things. They backed themselves into a corner and rather than attempt to get out of it, they threw Knight away to try to distract from the fact they had no plan.

I really can't think of any team that's been so poorly assembled in the last decade, that's why I say it appeared there was a plan in place. Knowing they willingly put themselves in that position though shows how incompetent all involved are/were.

Virtually everyone took the signing of ariza to believe there was a deal coming for a pg. when Canaan was recently cut everyone (not me - I told everyone why are you again waiting for the other shoe that’s never going to drop) again was saying a deal must be imminent. This organization does inexplicable things. It’s silly for us to try to rationalize any of it.

 

[Covert Rain]

That's the truth! We wound up with neither.

It is sad that the Managing Partner hired someone as GM (who at least had received some training from the Celtics), then overrode him in a Draft decision.

What were Sarver's basketball GM credentials? None!

It is too bad that the Commissioner of the NBA can't step in for the good of the game and the fans of the Phoenix Suns.

It was also sad to read the earlier post that maybe, just maybe, Sarver is intentionally bringing down the Suns for a move. He only promised to keep the team here as long as they have a deal with the Arena for a few more years. 2022 will be here before you know it.

If he attempts to move this team the Arizona Hell mouth may open.

 

[SirStefan32]

Nets appear to be in bad shape. I would go after Dinwiddie now. Perhaps Faried too, now that I look at their roster. Wonder if they would take expiring contracts or if they would want more.

 

[Carolinacacti]

So I guess Melton will start tomorrow.

 

[Covert Rain]

The two positivs I can think of:

1. Assists are way up. That means people are sharing the ball. Less hero ball. Which for this squad ha to be a good thing.

2. When players are playing hard and shots are dropping this team seems to hum. It really hits a nice rhythm. Unfortunately I think that’s only happened in the Mavericks game and the start of the Celtics and lakers games. So take that one with a few tons of salt.

The Suns are 18th in the league in assists and 28th in scoring. Pretty much every single team around those ranking can say they occasionally pass well and put up points. They can't do it consistently to save their lives.

Couple that with being one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA?

The coaching is absolutely abysmal.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Suns are 18th in the league in assists and 28th in scoring. Pretty much every single team around those ranking can say they occasionally pass well and put up points.

There is nothing that the Suns are doing that screams good coaching.

Couple that with being one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA?

The coaching is absolutely abysmal.

It’s all relative. When I say “assists are way up” I am comparing the suns to their stats from the last few seasons. I wouldn’t dare compare anything on this team to any other team in the league.

 

[Covert Rain]

It’s all relative. When I say “assists are way up” I am comparing the suns to their stats from the last few seasons. I wouldn’t dare compare anything on this team to any other team in the league.

That's not saying much then. I get you but none of that matters. A less smelly cow patty is still a cow patty. Comparing yourself to the competition is the only thing that matters IMO.

 

[SirStefan32]

That's not saying much then. I get you but none of that matters. A less smelly cow patty is still a cow patty. Comparing yourself to the competition is the only thing that matters IMO.

You have to start somewhere.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's not saying much then. I get you but none of that matters. A less smelly cow patty is still a cow patty. Comparing yourself to the competition is the only thing that matters IMO.

I never said this crap team wasn’t a smelly cow patty.

 

[Covert Rain]

I never said this crap team wasn’t a smelly cow patty.

Right but I would expect a different coach to make some aspect a little better somewhere verses making every single statistical category worse.

I see absolutely nothing redeeming about Igor. I wasn't against his hiring but a couple of us where like "meh" because we didn't see him bring anything to the table. I think Cheese was one of the other persons the day of that hiring that I can recall felt the same way.

At any rate, I think some on this board are not surprised at the result. He is terrible.

 

[elindholm]

Virtually everyone took the signing of ariza to believe there was a deal coming for a pg.

I couldn't remember what I concluded about the Ariza deal, so I went back and re-read the thread. And the answer is ... I didn't say anything.

Re-reading the thread, however, is sobering. There was not a clear consensus that another move was coming. A few people believed that, and the end of the thread includes a statement from McDonough that people interpreted as a promise. But basically, there was a lot of head-scratching.

What's clear, however, is that no one foresaw that Ariza could possibly be as ineffective as he is. The board debated whether he could really hack it as a PF, whether it made sense to give him minutes at the expense of the youngsters, and whether it meant that either Warren or Jackson was on the way out. But everyone trusted that he would at least be competent. How wrong we were.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/trevor-ariza.272265/

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Right but I would expect a different coach to make some aspect a little better somewhere verses making every single statistical category worse.

I see absolutely nothing redeeming about Igor. I wasn't against his hiring but a couple of us where like "meh" because we didn't see him bring anything to the table. I think Cheese was one of the other persons the day of that hiring that I can recall felt the same way.

At any rate, I think some on this board are not surprised at the result. He is terrible.

I was somewhere between meh and ooookay. Strongly in the meh minus category now.

 

[sdscard4]

He's quickly approaching Wilks territory. Unbelievable

 

[taz02]

The suns are averaging two (2) assists per game more than last season.

I agree that coaching effort is not the responsibility of an assistant coach but a head coach absolutely must motivate and inspire players, especially young players to put forth maximum effort.

Igor probably has the potential to be a good coach but fixing this dumpster fire is going to take an extraordinary coach that can teach, inspire and command respect.

 

[Hoop Head]

I couldn't remember what I concluded about the Ariza deal, so I went back and re-read the thread. And the answer is ... I didn't say anything.

Re-reading the thread, however, is sobering. There was not a clear consensus that another move was coming. A few people believed that, and the end of the thread includes a statement from McDonough that people interpreted as a promise. But basically, there was a lot of head-scratching.

What's clear, however, is that no one foresaw that Ariza could possibly be as ineffective as he is. The board debated whether he could really hack it as a PF, whether it made sense to give him minutes at the expense of the youngsters, and whether it meant that either Warren or Jackson was on the way out. But everyone trusted that he would at least be competent. How wrong we were.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/trevor-ariza.272265/

It's worth looking at that thread just to see how some have done a complete 180 on Jackson. He was considered part of our core and untouchable by the majority of people who mentioned him and now there's been numerous calls to bench him, how he's a bust, and how we should have taken Fox or someone else.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's worth looking at that thread just to see how some have done a complete 180 on Jackson. He was considered part of our core and untouchable by the majority of people who mentioned him and now there's been numerous calls to bench him, how he's a bust, and how we should have taken Fox or someone else.

I still believe in JJ’s future. But given our construct and their respective play, it’s difficult not to admit that Fox looks like he would have been a better pick, with hindsight of course.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's worth looking at that thread just to see how some have done a complete 180 on Jackson. He was considered part of our core and untouchable by the majority of people who mentioned him and now there's been numerous calls to bench him, how he's a bust, and how we should have taken Fox or someone else.

I still consider him part of our core although obviously I have some doubts. I don't consider him untouchable in the traditional sense although I did consider him untouchable at the moment of that thread because you don't send a player to the lottery and then turn right around and trade him. But I consider him untouchable right now because his league wide value is likely well below his potential. If we can't move him for reasonable value he should be here until he proves he can't tone down his mistakes and improve his shooting. IOW it's too early to dump him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I still believe in JJ’s future. But given our construct and their respective play, it’s difficult not to admit that Fox looks like he would have been a better pick, with hindsight of course.

It would certainly be hindsight for me, I was just as concerned about Fox as I was about JJ. All I saw of Jackson at Kansas was a poor shooting reckless ballhandler whose defensive problems were hidden by the way they used him. But he won me over gradually despite his horrible start. I can't explain what's going on with him now but the raw ability is there along with an obvious desire to excel. We may not have the right guy on staff but there is a coach out there that will turn him into a very good player IMO.

 

[taz02]

JJ's play has caused a change of opinion. I felt JJ became expendable as soon as we drafted Bridges.

If I remember correctly JJ was mentioned in a trade for Kyrie who is averaging 22ppg 5rpg and 6ast this season.

I'm pretty sure the suns would be better with Kyrie than they are with JJ.

 

[95pro]

Only issue with JJ is his shooting, makes a low % of anything right now.

 

[AzStevenCal]

JJ's play has caused a change of opinion. I felt JJ became expendable as soon as we drafted Bridges.

If I remember correctly JJ was mentioned in a trade for Kyrie who is averaging 22ppg 5rpg and 6ast this season.

I'm pretty sure the suns would be better with Kyrie than they are with JJ.

If we could have kept him, yes. I highly doubt he would have stayed though and that was the problem (that plus injury history).

 

[Chaplin]

I couldn't remember what I concluded about the Ariza deal, so I went back and re-read the thread. And the answer is ... I didn't say anything.

Re-reading the thread, however, is sobering. There was not a clear consensus that another move was coming. A few people believed that, and the end of the thread includes a statement from McDonough that people interpreted as a promise. But basically, there was a lot of head-scratching.

What's clear, however, is that no one foresaw that Ariza could possibly be as ineffective as he is. The board debated whether he could really hack it as a PF, whether it made sense to give him minutes at the expense of the youngsters, and whether it meant that either Warren or Jackson was on the way out. But everyone trusted that he would at least be competent. How wrong we were.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/trevor-ariza.272265/

The "pundits" and sportswriters were over the moon about the Ariza signing. Not sure why they were, but they were.