2019 1st round pick is QB Kyler Murray

[moklerman]

The contention by many is that Keim could've got more for Rosen before the draft, but NOW his value is plummeting.

1. If Keim hadn't decided to pick Murray until a right before the pick was made, how could he have offered Rosen in trade before the draft? Whenever the decision was made, how do any of us know he didn't try to trade him before today? Frankly, the idea that he didn't is preposterous.

Is it? I mean, really? Look at what they did last year and this year and you're willing to give him the benefit of doubt? I don't think he's earned that.

2. You can't simultaneously criticize Keim for holding out for more than teams were offering - then criticize him for not getting enough for him. It seems beyond obvious at this point that no team was willing to give up a 1st round pick. It made sense to see how the draft fell and whether any team would increase its offer during the draft, based on desired players being taken when their picks came up. Obviously that didn't happen. If Keim was holding out for a 1st and didn't get it... well, here we are at the top of the 2nd, and if he was offered a 2nd, he may still get a 2nd. If he was offered a 3rd, he can hold out hope that a team will decide to pony up a 2nd tomorrow. If not... at no point in this process is Keim getting less for Rosen than he would have had he "tried harder" to trade him before today.

Well, I didn't criticize him for both. I do criticize him for choosing to move on from an expensive draft pick after less than a year and telegraphing his intentions, thus forfeiting all leverage in getting any return on Rosen ahead of time and drawing this thing out. You're probably right that he couldn't have got much for Rosen because no team is going to give anything for a player that everyone knows you don't want anymore.

3. This goes without saying for every trade. It was true before today, and it will be true tomorrow, and for the rest of time. The only hope of getting more was for a team to get panicky after seeing a desired prospect go off the board. That didn't happen, so they will get for Rosen what teams think they can get him for.

Criticize Keim all you want for picking Rosen last year (even though those who are most critical are the ones who have been singing Rosen's praises all along). Criticize him if you think Murray was a terrible pick. But it makes no sense to criticize him for squandering Rosen's value. Rosen did that on the field last season.

...dbs

But that IS what's being said. Rosen is "worth" less than this or that because teams didn't pony up a certain draft pick. Which isn't true. What a team can get him for doesn't automatically equate to them thinking that's all he's worth. It is a buyer's market for Rosen because of how the Cardinals handled things. They overpaid for him. They saddled him with an inept coaching staff and scheme. They played him too early. They gave up on him in less than a season. Some team will buy low thinking they are getting a value.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I respect Keim for having the balls to follow his conviction...Don’t know that he was this brave even a year ago. He’s finally playing to win the game instead of playing to not lose.

Yep, Keim went all in on the QB his new head coach told him to draft... Serious HUGE BRASS ONES there SK!!!!


Cause we all know if Wilkes (Or any other HC was here) We would have sprinted to the podium with the same pick....Right?

 

[dscher]

Thanks Ouchie! I dunno about smartest on the board - but i try to be the voice of reason. Seems as though tribalism and "certainty" about a situation that's inherently filled with uncertainty have taken over... much as they seem to be doing in other aspects of life. You're one of the few here who had what i thought was a rational outlook before today, and now.

...dave

I was always wondering who this Dave's guy was liking my posts... Must be something in the name ....

PS another Dave here as well .Lol

 

[BW52]

I was always wondering who this Dave's guy was liking my posts... Must be something in the name ....

PS another Dave here as well .Lol

Crazy by name?Some sort of Vulcan mindmeld or telepathic crazy?

 

[dscher]

Crazy by name?Some sort of Vulcan mindmeld or telepathic crazy?

Common sensical crazy..

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

1. No one knows what Keim has been doing. Didn't they just say they hadn't made a decision up until a couple of days ago?
2. Every team that's taken a QB could have traded for Rosen but we don't know what the Cardinals were demanding in return. So, we don't really know that they could have traded for him.
3. Whatever Rosen goes for, if traded, does not mean that is what a team thought he was worth. It means that is what they thought they could get him for.

Wrong. Daves right. I’ll side with the smartest man on ASFN.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I would have preferred to stay the course with Rosen but I am an AZ Cardinals fan first so I will support Murray as my franchise QB. I really hope that Murray proves all his doubters wrong and leads us to the promised land. I don't envy his position one bit because he is going to have the weight of the world on his shoulders and will be doing so for the worst team in the NFL with an exciting but questionable rookie HC. That said, I'm cautiously optimistic and I look forward to seeing how this plays out. We better get him some weapons and OL help in this draft, no excuses.

On the Rosen side of things, this is difficult and depressing. I know this is a business and that he's been paid but at the end of the day, Josh is a human being just like me or anyone else here. So I feel for him and he definitely deserved better than being set up to fail and then made into an after thought after only one season. I admire his professionalism on this matter, his toughness that he showed despite all the beatings he endured and his competitive spirit throughout this past year. So I hope that we trade him ASAP and don't try to drag on this situation any further than it needs to be. It is already a toxic situation and we need to move past this quickly not only for Josh's sake but for Kyler's as well. We cannot go into next season with a divided locker room and the circus that comes with that.

Agree 100% on the Rosen thoughts.

 

[Redsz]

WOW. From a resource management perspective you have to really question the FO spending back to back first round picks on the same position.

This feels like Kiem pushing all his poker chips into the middle of the the table and going "all in" on KK. If it works he saves his job. If it doesn't we will be back picking in the top 5 very soon with a new GM.

In saying that, I hope Murray comes in and lights it up. I am a Cardinals fan first and foremost regardless of my views on the strategy here (or lack there of).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wow, it's a real Dave fest here today! While everything you and your brother have said here today is true, we should all recall that you and your bro have also called me an idiot and incredibly dumb!

...dave

Only bc we love you. Only bc we love you.

 

[JosiahLee]

Yep, Keim went all in on the QB his new head coach told him to draft... Serious HUGE BRASS ONES there SK!!!!


Cause we all know if Wilkes (Or any other HC was here) We would have sprinted to the podium with the same pick....Right?

I guess this is all a matter of perspective. Why wouldn’t you lean into your coach’s philosophy and equip him with a player that he desires and believes fits his offensive system?

We would credit coaches for catering to their players strengths, it appears Keim is taking this approach with his coach, and to be honest, I think that strategy is just plain smart.

 

[moklerman]

Wrong. Daves right. I’ll side with the smartest man on ASFN.

Good thinking:

I would have preferred to stay the course with Rosen

 

[daves]

Good thinking:

I would have preferred to stay the course with Rosen

I said that?!? I notice there's no link to the original post!

I may have waffled during the last few months, but for the most part i've been in Ouchie's camp... unsure whether the right move was to keep Rosen or move on, seeing the valid points on both sides, willing to stay optimistic and hope for improvement from Rosen if that's the way the team had gone, and excited go along for the ride now that they decided to go all-in and swing for the fences with Murray.

...dave

 

[moklerman]

I said that?!? I notice there's no link to the original post!

I may have waffled during the last few months, but for the most part i've been in Ouchie's camp... unsure whether the right move was to keep Rosen or move on, seeing the valid points on both sides, willing to stay optimistic and hope for improvement from Rosen if that's the way the team had gone, and excited go along for the ride now that they decided to go all-in and swing for the fences with Murray.

...dave

Check out post #157 on this page.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Not a fan. Don’t build a roster choosing qbs in the top 10 two straight years.

Sure, but you also shouldn't refuse to draft a QB just because you drafted one the prior year. The future is the most important aspect to consider and if you aren't confident in the QB you have as much as you are of the one you can draft than you should draft that guy.

For me personally I wanted to see us stick with Rosen and give him a shot with a better team around him, but I find myself having to somewhat just accept that the people making decisions on this know a lot more than I do. Hopefully this works out for the Cardinals.

 

[moklerman]

Sure, but you also shouldn't refuse to draft a QB just because you drafted one the prior year. The future is the most important aspect to consider and if you aren't confident in the QB you have as much as you are of the one you can draft than you should draft that guy.

For me personally I wanted to see us stick with Rosen and give him a shot with a better team around him, but I find myself having to somewhat just accept that the people making decisions on this know a lot more than I do. Hopefully this works out for the Cardinals.

I think it's important to differentiate between drafting QB's at any spot and drafting back to back top 10 QB's. It seems hard to imagine giving up on a guy that you JUST considered worth moving up into the top 10 to get. If you're that unsure about that guy then I don't know how you have any confidence to make the decision to move on from him and get another guy.

Talk about throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks.

Screwing up a top pick isn't the death knell that it used to be but the Cardinals have been making a real mess of things the last couple of years and this decision isn't a clear indicator that they've righted the ship.

 

[Buckybird]

Everything changed the day they hired K2, everything! If he wasn’t the HC, none of this would’ve happened.

It’s makes sense & almost every NFL insider & guru agreed with the fit & decision weeks ago, including most of the Cards media. Keim & Michael gave K2 the guy he wanted to & felt was the best QB to go to battle with! It’s time to move on football season is right around the corner

I think it's important to differentiate between drafting QB's at any spot and drafting back to back top 10 QB's. It seems hard to imagine giving up on a guy that you JUST considered worth moving up into the top 10 to get. If you're that unsure about that guy then I don't know how you have any confidence to make the decision to move on from him and get another guy.

Talk about throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks.

Screwing up a top pick isn't the death knell that it used to be but the Cardinals have been making a real mess of things the last couple of years and this decision isn't a clear indicator that they've righted the ship.

 

[daves]

Check out post #157 on this page.

Oh, that was Ouchie quoting Dante, not me!

I would've been fine with the decision, and hoped for the best, with some optimism, had they stuck with Rosen. But i wasn't really "hoping" either way. I was a little surprised when the pick turned out to be Murray at #1. If i was hoping for anything, it was a small trade down for value, followed by getting either one of the top D-linemen, or still getting Murray.

...dbs

 

[GatorAZ]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/...irst-round-grades-2019-kyler-murray-nick-bosa

 

[MadCardDisease]

Well we are all in on this college offense. I guess it's time to accept that and hope for the best.

 

[overseascardfan]

If Keim knew he was taking Murray with the #1 pick, he's been trying to move Rosen since before the draft. He didn't just take Murray and suddenly realize that he needs to try to trade Rosen. Every team that's taken a QB so far could've traded for Rosen instead, and no one wanted him.

If he goes for a 4th, that's all anyone thought he was worth. Before OR after the draft.

His value MIGHT go up if a projected starter gets hurt before or early in the season - if the Cardinals are willing to keep both QBs on the team through the offseason.

Hoping for a 2nd....

...dbs

Or Keim could have avoided all this and just took Bosa who would have been BPA and fill a need. Keim better get his resume ready because if KK/Murray flop this could be a career killer not just here but the league will be taking notice.

 

[JeffGollin]

Reach for the Digitalis and be prepared to ride the big, loopy roller coaster.

On any given offensive play, we'll all be sitting on pins and needles hoping that Kyler will pull another rabbit out of his hat while simultaneusly praying that he remains in one piece.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Or Keim could have avoided all this and just took Bosa who would have been BPA and fill a need. Keim better get his resume ready because if KK/Murray flop this could be a career killer not just here but the league will be taking notice.

He's part of the 'Ole boys" network. There'll be a job.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Spent the night drinking heavily spiked and watching Murray highlight videos. I'm still bummed for Josh but now stoked to see if Murray can bring us to the promised land!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Good thinking:

I would’ve been okay with that too. I was never a Murray fanboy. But I didn’t hate him either. I still don’t know what to make of him but I’m now his biggest fan. Me and Crimson are best buds now.

 

[Ronin]

Arizona Cardinals Twitter switched their handle to #KardsGotKyler.lol