2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

[Phrazbit]

That’s possible. Though we did go 8-0 with KD post trade. I think overall we went 15-10 over the full stretch. To pass the kings we would’ve had to have gone 19-6. That’s a 62+ game winning rate. I’m not sure that would’ve occurred. Would’ve been close though. That said, had we played book and Durant we likely end up only 1 or 2 games outta third slot. So we aren’t talking a big difference. All the injuries all season long put us in a hole that was too deep to dig out of for homecourt in the second round.

We were 15-6 prior to injuries overwhelming us and we were 9-2 in the run up to the trade deadline, as we finally got healthy again.

Also, we almost certainly would have had the tie breaker over the kings. We played them twice down the stretch and lost both after beating them twice earlier in the year, even if we'd been 2-2 against them, the second tie breaker is division record, which we also tied, but we ended the season losing 6 straight against the Pacific, we were 9-1 against the division prior to that.

IMO, we'd have cruised to the 3 seed, but I agree that we wouldn't have caught the Grizzlies for #2.

To be fair, if Durant hadn't gotten hurt, I think we'd have likely over taken the Kings also... all we needed to do was beat them once and win 2 other games that we lost. But the risk of Durant getting hurt is something we're going to have to live with for a while.

 

[Muggz]

We have the one two punch we just need some dogs.
I want 2 guys on the floor with KD and Book that stand under the basket and $@#$ ppl up for rebounds and bomb 3s when needed lol.
Gotta have a promising PG to split time with CP38.
And some lock down defenders.
Is that too much to ask.
Its not Rocket Surgery

 

[Covert Rain]

Who cares about the best scoring duo in the postseason when your team, and that duo, is at home while the postseason continues? They're at home because a duo alone wins nothing, it takes a whole team. I don't mean a complete 15 man roster but a legit 7-8 man rotation and the Suns had 4 in any given game. KD was inefficient, accounting for half of our turnovers in the Denver series on his own and that's bad considering the scrubs we rolled out. He should have been attacking but when he did, he was off. He's the only one who benefited from foul calls also, no one else had their FT attempts increased in a measurable manner, some even shot considerably less like Book.

There's no way to say we don't see this Booker without KD either. He's 26 years old. A lot of us said this is who he could be and had been saying that before the trade. This is his 3rd postseason, 3rd! We had such a small sample size no one could say who he was definitively one way or the other before this year. One thing is certain though, he's someone who fights like hell to rise to the occasion and plays at whatever level is needed to get us a W. No one said he'd need to be dropping 40+ or 50+ to carry us to wins with KD here. In fact it was the opposite, it was all how Booker wouldn't need to have those games anymore for us to win big games.

I do. Because Book isn't Book without KD. It doesn't allow them to key on just one guy. Nobody said duos win alone. That's not the point. The rest of the lineup was so weak though it impacted what they could do when nobody else in the lineup is stepping up. It cannot be understated how many guys when not making shots don't sniff the FT line. His trips to the line not only help win games but kept us in a couple.

Yes, we can say we don't see this Booker without KD. We have seen playoffs past what happens when teams double Book. It's been effective and that's a fact.

 

[Muggz]

I do. Because Book isn't Book without KD. It doesn't allow them to key on just one guy. Nobody said duos win alone. That's not the point. The rest of the lineup was so weak though it impacted what they could do when nobody else in the lineup is stepping up. It cannot be understated how many guys when not making shots don't sniff the FT line. His trips to the line not only help win games but kept us in a couple.

Yes, we can say we don't see this Booker without KD. We have seen playoffs past what happens when teams double Book. It's been effective and that's a fact.

KD for sure helps Bookers game. Imagine if we had a few more guys that took pressure off KD. No chance we do anything next year without big changes.
I'm like a kid at Xmas to see what they do in the front office. But most of my Xmases sucked so there's that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And Denver was throwing doubles at Booker anyway, he was dribbling through them because Denver is a bad defensive team, especially their guards.

I think we would have matched up better against Denver... for sure, I don't know if we beat them, but our lack of shooting and reliance on ISO made us very predictable.

Worth noting... we probably wouldn't have even played Denver until the conference finals. We were finally healthy going into the trade deadline, if we hadn't done the trade we'd likely have leap frogged the Kings for 3rd.

right so we would have played the Warriors and likely been bounced in the first round after Bridges and Ayton completely folded against them like usual as they would have out coached and outshot us from 3 the way they normally do.

Or, we maybe squeak by the Warriors (dubious at best) and then run into our biggest matchup nightmare, a healthy Lakers team who probably handle us in the same fashion Denver did in the second round.

 

[Muggz]

I did not vet this person.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

thoughts?

NM this looks fishy AF

 

[Phrazbit]

He thinks that Suns could have added Title moving depth without giving up anyone of consequence.

That core with more depth wouldn’t

right so we would have played the Warriors and likely been bounced in the first round after Bridges and Ayton completely folded against them like usual as they would have our coached and outshot us from 3 the way they normally do.

Much better outcome.

I don't know if we beat the Warriors, I suspect we would have because the Warriors had bigger warts than the pre-trade Suns did. Their victory over the Kings did not impress, that Kings team was fraudulent.

We were a worse team in this playoffs than we were last year. Every game we won was a massive struggle, even against a shell of Clipper team. If Kawhi doesn't get hurt do we even get by them?

It is plain to see that this team we ended up with wasn't a legit threat to beat anyone of consequence.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know if we beat the Warriors, I suspect we would have because the Warriors had bigger warts than the pre-trade Suns did. Their victory over the Kings did not impress, that Kings team was fraudulent.

We were a worse team in this playoffs than we were last year. Every game we won was a massive struggle, even against a shell of Clipper team. If Kawhi doesn't get hurt do we even get by them?

It is plain to see that this team we ended up with wasn't a legit threat to beat anyone of consequence.

I think you’re forgetting that last year, until his wheels fell off against Dallas, Paul was having a great playoffs. We didn’t have that Paul this year.

And look, there’s no doubt the cast jJ put around book and Durant sucked. But that doesn’t mean that same team that famed out last year, with worse Paul and regressing Ayton and minus crowder and Javale was going to do any better. It’s silly to bank on that.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think you’re forgetting that last year, until his wheels fell off against Dallas, Paul was having a great playoffs. We didn’t have that Paul this year.

And look, there’s no doubt the cast jJ put around book and Durant sucked. But that doesn’t mean that same team that famed out last year, with worse Paul and regressing Ayton and minus crowder and Javale was going to do any better. It’s silly to bank on that.

I know, statistically, we were a significantly better team prior to the trade. This team didn't look particularly good even when they won games.

After the trade, Ayton's usage went into the tubes and so did his focus. Ayton was playing some of the best basketball of his career in January and February. The useage drop might be blamed on Monty, not game planning to get Ayton more involved, but it was also a by product of an offense built around 2 ISO guys.

Javale was a non-factor. He was a fun guy to have on the bench but was useless in the playoffs.

I don't think it's a lock that we get out of the 2nd round with the old team, but I think they certainly wouldn't have done worse and the outlook going forward would be far better.

 

[Yuma]

I did not vet this person.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

thoughts?

NM this looks fishy AF

So remember when VanVleet was available this year and Gambo said Suns aren't interested in small point guards anymore. Then the trade rumors went away? There was another guard mentioned that was similar size, and Gambo said, long term Suns were looking for a big PG to pair with Book. That was while Sarver was here. Does Ishbia change that formula? I would imagine that was more of a James Jones determination than Sarver, but IDK. Just seems like Sarver doesn't know what type of players to get. I can't see him telling JJ, "No more small point guards!"

 

[Town Drunk]

Golden State Warriors – NBC Sports Bay Area & California

Articles from the category: Golden State Warriors

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[Yuma]

Golden State Warriors – NBC Sports Bay Area & California

Articles from the category: Golden State Warriors

www.nbcsports.com

Well I guess we are keeping JJ anyway. I think we would have just because other teams think well of him. However, new owner, you never know.

 

[Mainstreet]

So remember when VanVleet was available this year and Gambo said Suns aren't interested in small point guards anymore. Then the trade rumors went away? There was another guard mentioned that was similar size, and Gambo said, long term Suns were looking for a big PG to pair with Book. That was while Sarver was here. Does Ishbia change that formula? I would imagine that was more of a James Jones determination than Sarver, but IDK. Just seems like Sarver doesn't know what type of players to get. I can't see him telling JJ, "No more small point guards!"

I wouldn't hesitate to put a combo guard next to Booker if one became available. I'm not sure who that would be at the moment but it expands the field a bit. Trading Ayton for Anferneee Simons would be a dream scenario.

Before Bridges was traded, I was intrigued by the idea of putting him next to Booker. I think there is a strong possibility it would have worked, giving the Suns more size and defense in the back court. Also, it would have removed a tough problem of finding another starting point guard.

 

[Yuma]

I wouldn't hesitate to put a combo guard next to Booker if one became available. I'm not sure who that would be at the moment but it expands the field a bit. Trading Ayton for Anferneee Simons would be a dream scenario.

Before Bridges was traded, I was intrigued by the idea of putting him next to Booker. I think there is a strong possibility it would have worked, giving the Suns more size and defense in the back court.

He certainly fits the bill offensively. I don't have an idea of who, but ideally I want a ball handling PG that can play defense like Okogie, 6'6" or taller.

 

[Mainstreet]

He certainly fits the bill offensively. I don't have an idea of who, but ideally I want a ball handling PG that can play defense like Okogie, 6'6" or taller.

Too bad Okogie can't shoot but you understand the idea.

Playing a combo guard next to Booker could solve a number of problems: more defense, length, shooting and another distributor so Booker has a running mate that complements his skills.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

Too bad Okogie can't shoot but you understand the idea.

Playing a combo guard next to Booker could solve a number of problems: more defense, length, shooting and another distributor so Booker has a running mate that complements his skills.

Yeah I wouldn’t mind a combo guard who’s more defensive focused and long. Jrue Holiday would be interesting as a POA defender because no one gives Book more problems than him.

Plus Jrue wouldn’t have to jack a bunch of bad shots like I feel he did in Milwaukee.

I know this is unlikely but if Milwaukee wanted to get younger to help Giannis, dangling Ayton would have to be intriguing as Brook Lopez is 35. One can dream.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah I wouldn’t mind a combo guard who’s more defensive focused and long. Jrue Holiday would be interesting as a POA defender because no one gives Book more problems than him.

Plus Jrue wouldn’t have to jack a bunch of bad shots like I feel he did in Milwaukee.

I know this is unlikely but if Milwaukee wanted to get younger to help Giannis, dangling Ayton would have to be intriguing as Brook Lopez is 35. One can dream.

I do like Jrue Holiday but I think the Bucks know what they have. Also, they would need a replacement for him.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

I do like Jrue Holiday but I think the Bucks know what they have. Also, they would need a replacement for him.

There’s a lot of trade talks surrounding Jrue but that could just be online discourse. I wonder if Giannis ever leaves Milwaukee….I only say that because he won a title and he’s in his prime.

The East isn’t great per se but I wonder what happens if they don’t get more shooting around him.

 

[Mainstreet]

There’s a lot of trade talks surrounding Jrue but that could just be online discourse. I wonder if Giannis ever leaves Milwaukee….I only say that because he won a title and he’s in his prime.

The East isn’t great per se but I wonder what happens if they don’t get more shooting around him.

I don't know what happened to the Bucks but I thought they had a good roster. Maybe that is why Bud is gone.

 

[clyde2tw]

I think you’re forgetting that last year, until his wheels fell off against Dallas, Paul was having a great playoffs. We didn’t have that Paul this year.

And look, there’s no doubt the cast jJ put around book and Durant sucked. But that doesn’t mean that same team that famed out last year, with worse Paul and regressing Ayton and minus crowder and Javale was going to do any better. It’s silly to bank on that.

I don't think Paul breaking down was the main problem. Coaching was. CP/DA pnr, during the course of playoffs, became less and less effective with no more spacing gain but more turnovers. Good teams know sooner or later how to defend it. Yet, we had no alterantives, variations, adjustments. This year we changed to KD/Book ISOs, yet no proper complementary sets in place to make it more effective. On D, the other teams also could figure out our weakness and exploit it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think Paul breaking down was the main problem. Coaching was. CP/DA pnr, during the course of playoffs, became less and less effective with no more spacing gain but more turnovers. Good teams know sooner or later how to defend it. Yet, we had no alterantives, variations, adjustments. This year we changed to KD/Book ISOs, yet no proper complementary sets in place to make it more effective. On D, the other teams also could figure out our weakness and exploit it.

I think the answer is both but James Jones gave Monty a roster that didn't even have 5 starters heading into the playoffs.

Injuries to Paul and Ayton finished the deal.

Looking at the Nuggets roster, I see what a good GM can do.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I think the answer is both but James Jones gave Monty a roster that didn't even have 5 starters heading into the playoffs.

Injuries to Paul and Ayton finished the deal.

Looking at the Nuggets roster, I see what a good GM can do.

Monty got fired because he put KD in the corner and made him a decoy and that was it, that was going to be the offense moving forward, Monty is married to his .5 offense and even Jones knew that wouldn't work next year. It should have been Jones but I am assuming Jones got a mulligan for a year because Ishbia sent 7 assets to BKLN.

But James Jones is the real fraud, his type of guys like Shamet and Nader have riddled this roster for too long this will be his last year.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I don't know what happened to the Bucks but I thought they had a good roster. Maybe that is why Bud is gone.

Middleton got hurt and never was as good as he has been in 21 and 22 they need him on that roster the way it's constructed.

 

[Mainstreet]

Monty got fired because he put KD in the corner and made him a decoy and that was it, that was going to be the offense moving forward, Monty is married to his .5 offense and even Jones knew that wouldn't work next year. It should have been Jones but I am assuming Jones got a mulligan for a year because Ishbia sent 7 assets to BKLN.

But James Jones is the real fraud, his type of guys like Shamet and Nader have riddled this roster for too long this will be his last year.

I understand why Monty was let go but James Jones has made too many mistakes for my taste.

There is such a huge difference between the Suns roster and the Nuggets roster in terms of overall talent, it's embarrassing.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I don't think there is going to be a big market for a CP3 trade. The only team I could see interested is the LAL and they may just wait and see if PHX is bluffing about picking up the $30M option. I know Pelinka takes a lot of crap but he was able to spin Westbrook's contract into D'Lo, Vanderbilt & Beasley, I doubt Jones can work that magic with the CP3 situation. I don't think SA, CHI or HOU have any interest in Paul despite rumors popping up.

Unless the LAL are going to help PHX out and do a S&T swap of D'Lo for CP3 I think PHX needs to waive and stretch him so they can pick up the full MLE and BAE and hope KD and Book can recruit some guys who can help next year.

As for Ayton, my dream scenario would be a trade to ATL for Okongwu, Bey & Bogdanovic but realistically they may just end up with either Collins or Capela. I still would not want Myles Turner, dude is still injury prone and is a subpar rebounder for a guy his size. Obviously, I don't think we would see a Ayton trade until the draft and after a new coach (maybe GM) are hired. This draft is a 2 player draft, I don't think Brandon Miller and the G League guys are franchise guys like Scoot and Wemby. Maybe that opens up the market for DA.

Keep an eye on D'Lo, obviously his close friendship with Book is well documented. So playing in PHX may appeal to both of them even though signing with MIN to play with his other buddy , KAT didn't work out so well.

D'Lo is a UFA why would we bail out LA and put ourselves in cap hell with that guy? And who gives a F if they are friends? All these dudes are pretty much friends, all of them. **** there are only 450 players? F D'Lo

You don't know the market or the GMs.

Someone got a #1 for Shamet, do you think bad GM's only exist in Phoenix? I can tell you are a bad negotiator and would probably get destroyed in most negotiations, but James Jones is making his living do this and he needs to turn Paul into assets or stretch him. Then you resign him if you want him that bad. But Paul is just a shooter at this point, however, there are stupid teams out there that might be willing to take him on, it just takes one dumb James Jones like GM to get a deal.

Ayton, it's pretty simple, you do not give him away. Yes he sucks but he has value because someone will see something in him or make an excuse about tapping into him. Some dumb GM will give the Suns something for him. James Jones has to do something at some point. D'Lo and his what 5 points? Aren't gonna cut it.