Adrian Wilson: "Dansby's gone"

[Redheart]

...Let's face it, Graves dropped the ball on this 3 years ago when he was supposedly concerned with Dansby's durability....Instead he paid him about 20 mill the last 2 years .... could have put that 20 mill into a bonus and locked him up for 5 years.

I agree with this rear view look, to a point. Dansby seemed to start playing hard when he was in a contract year; this year's overall impact was down!

I would have loved to lock up Dansby for 5 years, but you don't know that would have worked.

I will say this about the talent that Denny drafted: they ALL want to get paid like they are best in the league, when for the most part, they are above average.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I am not feeling a lot of love for any particular member of the defense right now.

In other words, we can average giving up 45 points a game without Dansby...

Fixed that for you

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'd love to be wrong, of course....

but, I bet if Dansby leaves we return to the bottom 3 or 4 of every statistical category on defense and we hear from his teammates next season about how this miss him. Remember, he makes the calls that gets Dockett, Wilson, etc, into the right blitz or coverage based on what the offense shows. He has been doing more than just tackle and cover.

Other players can learn to make the calls in the huddle, as for reading the offense after the snap. I would be concerned if Dansby is the ONLY one that can do that with all the vets on the field.

And I question his ability at that since when ever we lose, there is talk about wrong coverages and mis-communication.

On whether Dansby is "needed" I leave that up to the front office.

Whether Dansby can be afforded, I think matters on whether a new CBA is made or not.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I'd love to be wrong, of course....

but, I bet if Dansby leaves we return to the bottom 3 or 4 of every statistical category on defense and we hear from his teammates next season about how this miss him. Remember, he makes the calls that gets Dockett, Wilson, etc, into the right blitz or coverage based on what the offense shows. He has been doing more than just tackle and cover.

Wow... you seem to be placing a tremendous amount of value on a guy who, like Joe said, isn't even in the top 4 on our own team!
OK, he makes the calls... Don't you think somebody else can pick up that duty?
Playing defense is a whole lot more than just barking out calls... Dansby is a good LB. But he is clearly expendable and replaceable. And is is so not worth 8-9 million a year...

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think he was referring to "wilson calling out the front office". I didn't read it that way at all. Wilson himself doesn't think we can afford to do it, not that we won't do it (and I agree with him).

This. Thank you Linder

 

[Duckjake]

What was that average in the play-offs? Oh yea, gave up more points in the last two games than any team in play-off history.

Didn't they "rest" their players before the first play-off game? Result: gave up 45 points...

It isn't just he "older" players. Can we be worse without Dansby? Sure, but we could also be better by using the kind of money Dansby wants on player(s) that will make our defense better.

We could but then we could be worse because the Cards haven't had the best success drafting or signing linebackers. Its been 5 years since the Cards picked up a decent linebacker. On the other hand other teams have had great success with rookie ILBs so maybe we will get lucky.

I still think it was older players wearing down and a new DC. What did they do in the playoffs last year with the same guys? Oh yeah, shut down the running games of Atlanta, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and destroyed Carolina.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

It wont be that at all considering they already offered him fair market value last year, and he fired his agent for telling him that the Cards were offering him fair market value and he should take it.

As for losing Dansby I am just not that afriad of lossing him or think it will be that big of a deal. The guy isnt even in the top 4 best defenders that we have. DRC, Dockett, Campbell, and Wilson are all higher then him in importance to our D IMO. I am not so sure the rest of the league even thinks that highly of him. The guy can even get voted in by the players and coaches as even a 3rd pro bowl alternate. DC dont game plan for this guy, they dont run away from him, they dont throw away from him, and players arent afraid of running right at him.

Now even with that he still could get big money, why you ask, because it only takes one team to covet a player.

I also want to know what this guy will do once he gets a new contract. In a recent Somers article he once again talks about the issue the coaching staffs have had with Dansby, always nicked up, cant practice because of little injuries, no heart, no leader, and so. You know the stuff everyone said the haters were just making up when in reality it was absolutely true. Dansby even in the article admitted to it. Stated that he had to do a lot of growing up and did so the last two years. Which just so happened to coincide with contract years.

Sorry but I just will not be sad to see this guy leave.

Awesome post and this pretty much sums it up. I want a wrecking ball at ILB (like McClain) and Dansby just isn't that. And if he is then a "playmaker" he is not consistent in that department for me either. Especially not for 25 million guaranteed.

I had never heard Mike B or Graves come out and say that quote you posted on the "one year left" but I will take your word for it. I just think that would be a HUGE mistake to make that the angle with Dockett. Huge.

 

[joeshmo]

Graves dropped the ball on this 3 years ago when he was supposedly concerned with Dansby's durability. It wasn't an issue then and it hasn't been in the last 3 years,or his entire career, either.

Wrong. That among many other things has been an issue. Its why he was on the injury report every week and never practiced his first 3 years in the league. Somers mentioned it once again in a recent article and Dansby agreed by saying he had to do a lot of growing up and did the last two years.

It was not something that was just made up. It goes all the way back to his college coaches rumbling about it.

The amount offered that Dansby turned down was not specualtion. More then one team insider along with his fired agent mentioned that it was a similar deal to Tatupu and Bart Scott.

 

[joeshmo]

If he gets offered 4 years/50 mill, or whatever, that's what his market value is and the Cards don't want to pay that.

Good, let some other patsy team take that in the gonads. Ray Lewis in his prime wouldnt even command that sort of coin.

 

[joeshmo]

I had never heard Mike B or Graves come out and say that quote you posted on the "one year left" but I will take your word for it. I just think that would be a HUGE mistake to make that the angle with Dockett. Huge.

They just might be able to get around it becuase of their term "extenuating circumstances". Uncapped year could be extenuating couldnt it?

 

[ajcardfan]

Wow... you seem to be placing a tremendous amount of value on a guy who, like Joe said, isn't even in the top 4 on our own team!
OK, he makes the calls... Don't you think somebody else can pick up that duty?
Playing defense is a whole lot more than just barking out calls... Dansby is a good LB. But he is clearly expendable and replaceable. And is is so not worth 8-9 million a year...

A lot of my feeling has to do with the cupboard being so bare at LB without him. If we got a viable replacement, that would change things. Right now, we have diddly-squat besides Hayes who might be breaking down.

 

[Duckjake]

Wow... you seem to be placing a tremendous amount of value on a guy who, like Joe said, isn't even in the top 4 on our own team!
OK, he makes the calls... Don't you think somebody else can pick up that duty?
Playing defense is a whole lot more than just barking out calls... Dansby is a good LB. But he is clearly expendable and replaceable. And is is so not worth 8-9 million a year...

That's just Joe's opinion based partly on the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl. I think Wilson is way overrated and a major reason our pass defense is so pathetic.

And like I said in the post above it has been 5 years since the Cards have even signed a half way decent linebacker. What makes people think they can just go out and get one as good as Dansby with that history?

Not worth 8-9 million a year? The Cards have paid him that the last two seasons. The result TWO trips to the playoffs.

 

[kerouac9]

It wont be that at all considering they already offered him fair market value last year, and he fired his agent for telling him that the Cards were offering him fair market value and he should take it.

As for losing Dansby I am just not that afriad of lossing him or think it will be that big of a deal. The guy isnt even in the top 4 best defenders that we have. DRC, Dockett, Campbell, and Wilson are all higher then him in importance to our D IMO. I am not so sure the rest of the league even thinks that highly of him. The guy can even get voted in by the players and coaches as even a 3rd pro bowl alternate. DC dont game plan for this guy, they dont run away from him, they dont throw away from him, and players arent afraid of running right at him.

Now even with that he still could get big money, why you ask, because it only takes one team to covet a player.

I also want to know what this guy will do once he gets a new contract. In a recent Somers article he once again talks about the issue the coaching staffs have had with Dansby, always nicked up, cant practice because of little injuries, no heart, no leader, and so. You know the stuff everyone said the haters were just making up when in reality it was absolutely true. Dansby even in the article admitted to it. Stated that he had to do a lot of growing up and did so the last two years. Which just so happened to coincide with contract years.

Sorry but I just will not be sad to see this guy leave.

For what it's worth, from what I saw on the field, while Karlos didn't have all the great plays that DRC had this year, he was definitely a far more consistent player than DRC was this season. And probably more consistent that C. Campbell, as well.

And I disagree with you that 'Los wasn't a better player than Adrian Wilson this year. Adrian had a bad year this year. I don't know if it was because of scheme or because of the big new contract or what, but Wilson clearly wasn't the playmaker he had been the previous two seasons this year.

I thought that this season Karlos Dansby was our BEST defensive player after Darnell Dockett (who was playing on a whole other level). There's little doubt in my mind that he was a difference-maker in the Vikings game, to name one. It's just that Dansby was asked to play in zone coverage and off the ball so frequently this season that a lot of casual fans don't see the impact that he makes for this team.

I agree with you though that Dansby is a linebacker. He's a very good three-down linebacker, and way, way better than Gerald Hayes. But linebacker is the easiest position to get value at through the draft. The thing is that the Cards are going to have to acquire two players (likely a vet and a mid-round draft pick) to try and replace what they already have in Dansby.

The groundwork for this decision was made a year ago when the Cards decided that they didn't want to pay Dansby before the first Franchise deadline. It's a shame, but I don't really understand the gnashing of teeth about it now.

 

[82CardsGrad]

That's just Joe's opinion based partly on the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl. I think Wilson is way overrated and a major reason our pass defense is so pathetic.

And like I said in the post above it has been 5 years since the Cards have even signed a half way decent linebacker. What makes people think they can just go out and get one as good as Dansby with that history?

Not worth 8-9 million a year? The Cards have paid him that the last two seasons. The result TWO trips to the playoffs.

Wilson is not overrated IMO. Though, I do believe he had an off year this season. Could that have been more Davis than Adrian? Don't know. But I will concede that more often than not, he is a liability in coverage...
As for Dansby, I'll stand behind my statements. He is not worth 8-9 million a year. Sure, the Cards franchised him the past two seasons. And in reality, I thought it was the right thing to do, particularly since we have no other viable solution. But that doesn't mean we should continue to shell out that type of money for a guy who is simply decent, nothing more.
FWIW, I actually believe we would have won the West these past two seasons with or WITHOUT Dansby. But that's just me...

 

[Duckjake]

It's just that Dansby was asked to play in zone coverage and off the ball so frequently this season that a lot of casual fans don't see the impact that he makes for this team.

Spot on. Too many people only see stats and big hits. Anyone who takes the time to really watch their dvr of the games can see all the things Dansby does that don't show up on the stat sheet or ESPN but go a long way toward helping the Cards win games.

 

[82CardsGrad]

A lot of my feeling has to do with the cupboard being so bare at LB without him. If we got a viable replacement, that would change things. Right now, we have diddly-squat besides Hayes who might be breaking down.

Agreed... we are thin throughout our entire defense. Seriously, it's not just at linebacker. We have zero quality depth at virtually every position. It's unsettling to think that we might be hoping beyond all hope that Cody Brown and Will Davis develop into something... Yikes!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Wrong. That among many other things has been an issue. Its why he was on the injury report every week and never practiced his first 3 years in the league. Somers mentioned it once again in a recent article and Dansby agreed by saying he had to do a lot of growing up and did the last two years.

It was not something that was just made up. It goes all the way back to his college coaches rumbling about it.

i don't care if he was on the injury report and never practiced. He played on Sundays and played at a high level.That's what you're paying for. Monty Beisel could practice every day and never be on the injury report. He stinks on Sunday though.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Spot on. Too many people only see stats and big hits. Anyone who takes the time to really watch their dvr of the games can see all the things Dansby does that don't show up on the stat sheet or ESPN but go a long way toward helping the Cards win games.

You think other DC's are astute enough on stuff like this? I would sure think so. As best as I can tell, Dansby doesn't scare anyone.
Further, I think we're about to find out what the rest of the league thinks about Dansby and whether or not he's worth 8-9 million a season. I really don't see it and my guess is that no other team will be willing to dish out that type of money for him.
He is a very solid player. I actually would love to see him stay with us. I think $5 million a season with 22-24 million guaranteed over the next 4-5 years seems right to me...

 

[Doug]

For what it's worth, from what I saw on the field, while Karlos didn't have all the great plays that DRC had this year, he was definitely a far more consistent player than DRC was this season. And probably more consistent that C. Campbell, as well.

And I disagree with you that 'Los wasn't a better player than Adrian Wilson this year. Adrian had a bad year this year. I don't know if it was because of scheme or because of the big new contract or what, but Wilson clearly wasn't the playmaker he had been the previous two seasons this year.

I thought that this season Karlos Dansby was our BEST defensive player after Darnell Dockett (who was playing on a whole other level). There's little doubt in my mind that he was a difference-maker in the Vikings game, to name one. It's just that Dansby was asked to play in zone coverage and off the ball so frequently this season that a lot of casual fans don't see the impact that he makes for this team.

I agree with you though that Dansby is a linebacker. He's a very good three-down linebacker, and way, way better than Gerald Hayes. But linebacker is the easiest position to get value at through the draft. The thing is that the Cards are going to have to acquire two players (likely a vet and a mid-round draft pick) to try and replace what they already have in Dansby.

The groundwork for this decision was made a year ago when the Cards decided that they didn't want to pay Dansby before the first Franchise deadline. It's a shame, but I don't really understand the gnashing of teeth about it now.

Could'nt agree more with everthing you said.

 

[Duckjake]

Wilson is not overrated IMO. Though, I do believe he had an off year this season. Could that have been more Davis than Adrian? Don't know. But I will concede that more often than not, he is a liability in coverage...
As for Dansby, I'll stand behind my statements. He is not worth 8-9 million a year. Sure, the Cards franchised him the past two seasons. And in reality, I thought it was the right thing to do, particularly since we have no other viable solution. But that doesn't mean we should continue to shell out that type of money for a guy who is simply decent, nothing more.
FWIW, I actually believe we would have won the West these past two seasons with or WITHOUT Dansby. But that's just me...

I think Wilson is overrated because of the way the Cards have to use him and that leaves big holes in our pass defense. Any guy who leaves that large a hole in your D can't be your best defensive player.

Maybe it was just an off year for Wilson and Hayes being subpar physically the second half but those rushing numbers, that Wilson is supposed to control, are just awful for the last 10 weeks of 2009.

So if Wilson is leaving a hole in the pass coverage ( and this was one of his better pass defense seasons statistically), not sacking the QB (Only 4.5 sacks in 3 years) and not helping stop the run what good is he?

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think Wilson is overrated because of the way the Cards have to use him and that leaves big holes in our pass defense. Any guy who leaves that large a hole in your D can't be your best defensive player.

Maybe it was just an off year for Wilson and Hayes being subpar physically the second half but those rushing numbers, that Wilson is supposed to control, are just awful for the last 10 weeks of 2009.

So if Wilson is leaving a hole in the pass coverage ( and this was one of his better pass defense seasons statistically), not sacking the QB (Only 4.5 sacks in 3 years) and not helping stop the run what good is he?

I hear ya Duck. I think next season has to be considered a serious make-up, almost comeback season for Adrian. We know what he is capable of doing and how destructive he can be. For reasons that are totally unclear to me, he was absent way too often throughout this past season. Again, is it Davis? Was it the function of some funky scheming?? Who knows. But c'mon man. How many 20-20 guys have there been in the history of the NFL?? We know what A-Dub can do. He now needs to find the way to get unleashed again in 2010!!!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You think other DC's are astute enough on stuff like this? I would sure think so. As best as I can tell, Dansby doesn't scare anyone.
Further, I think we're about to find out what the rest of the league thinks about Dansby and whether or not he's worth 8-9 million a season. I really don't see it and my guess is that no other team will be willing to dish out that type of money for him.
He is a very solid player. I actually would love to see him stay with us. I think $5 million a season with 22-24 million guaranteed over the next 4-5 years seems right to me...

If Dansby would take that kind of money he would already have been signed. Mike Nolan had to gameplan for Dansby, Miami needs LB's, Nolan is in Miami now, and Parcells loves big LB's. That's where i think he ends up and he'll get paid well too.

 

[82CardsGrad]

If Dansby would take that kind of money he would already have been signed. Mike Nolan had to gameplan for Dansby, Miami needs LB's, Nolan is in Miami now, and Parcells loves big LB's. That's where i think he ends up and he'll get paid well too.

Ya think Miami will pay him $9 million per??

 

[Doug]

Playing at that level with two seperated shoulders is Emmitt Smith like.Plus his original first shoulder seperation and playing in a brace and leading the team in tackles yet once again showed me one hell of a lot.Put someone next to him that is held responsible and playing up to thier end and responsability.

Hayes had 3 okay games early and dug deep for an okay game against the vikes buy if Dansby had a partner in crime playing next to him carrying his own share of water we'd ROCK.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Ya think Miami will pay him $9 million per??

i think his deal will average more than 9 mill /year. It will all depend on his signing bonus.