Adrian Wilson: "Dansby's gone"

[ajcardfan]

Part of why Dansby has been so important to our defense is because of Wilson being an average player in pass coverage. The reason Wilson can be so aggressive in run support and blitzing is that Dansby can take up coverage if it's a pass. Like Cbus said, we can replace him with two guys, one for run downs and one for pass downs, but it's highly unlikely we can get someone to fill in for him as a three down LBer. Those guys are a lot rarer than they used to be. That's why Dansby is going to do very well in free agency, no matter who he signs with.

 

[82CardsGrad]

i think his deal will average more than 9 mill /year. It will all depend on his signing bonus.

Ha... anything is possible of course. But Wow would Miami or any other team dumping that truckload of cash on him be overpaying in a major way!

 

[Shane]

Listen we think we have all these great players on Defense Dockett, Dansby, DRC, Wilson and a few others like Campbell, Watson, Hayes who we consider at least decent.

Yet for some reason our defenses just aren't that good. Even this year when we had 3 defenders make the PB our total D was somewhere in the 20's. (to lazy to look it up exactly) With all the supposed "talent" we have this D should be in the top 10 no questions asked. Does anyone know if there is another D in the league with 3 PBers that isnt in the top 10?

The simple fact is that with the exception of the GB game Dansby has been quiet all year and barely making any game changing plays. In fact he was bouncing off quite a few tackles. His overall season performance I guess you could say was mediocre. There is a reason he doesn't even get a sniff for the PB from the players and coaches.

I think we all greatly overrate ALL of the players on this D and I think many of them could be replaced easier than you think. The OVERALL defesnsive #'s IMO back that up.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Remember, he makes the calls that gets Dockett, Wilson, etc, into the right blitz or coverage based on what the offense shows.

So you're saying he made the calls that put the defense in position to embarrass themselves the last two weeks? C'mon man, give the guy a break.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Listen we think we have all these great players on Dockett, Dansby, DRC, Wilson and a few others like Campbell, Watson, Hayes who we consider at least decent.

Yet for some reason our defenses just aren't that good. Even this year when we had 3 defenders make the PB our total D was somewhere in the 20's. (to lazy to look it up exactly) With all the supposed "talent" we have this D should be in the top 10 no questions asked. Does anyone know if there is another D in the league with 3 PBers that isnt in the top 10?

The simple fact is that with the exception of the GB game Dansby has been quiet all year and barely making any game changing plays. In fact he was bouncing off quite a few tackles. His overall season performance I guess you could say was mediocre. There is a reason he doesn't even get a sniff for the PB form the players and coaches.

I think we all greatly overrate ALL of the players on this D and I think many of them could be replaced easier than you think. The OVERALL defesnsive #'s IMO back that up.

Yup... as I have said time and again that IMO, Dockett is the only one who gives 110% on every play. I don't believe he can be as easily replaced as the others...

 

[jefftheshark]

Listen we think we have all these great players on Defense Dockett, Dansby, DRC, Wilson and a few others like Campbell, Watson, Hayes who we consider at least decent.

Yet for some reason our defenses just aren't that good. Even this year when we had 3 defenders make the PB our total D was somewhere in the 20's. (to lazy to look it up exactly) With all the supposed "talent" we have this D should be in the top 10 no questions asked. Does anyone know if there is another D in the league with 3 PBers that isnt in the top 10?

The simple fact is that with the exception of the GB game Dansby has been quiet all year and barely making any game changing plays. In fact he was bouncing off quite a few tackles. His overall season performance I guess you could say was mediocre. There is a reason he doesn't even get a sniff for the PB from the players and coaches.

I think we all greatly overrate ALL of the players on this D and I think many of them could be replaced easier than you think. The OVERALL defesnsive #'s IMO back that up.

This is really more of an indictment of the DC and his staff, isn't it?

Just as the need for better offensive game planing required that we replace Green with Whiz, in order to maximize the talents of the great players we had already assembled, doesn't this also mean that we need to take a long hard look at who we have running the show, and discover who is not maximizing the talent we have on defense?

To me, the analogy is like a restaurant. We have people in place who are fairly good at picking out the ingredients for the menu, but until we replace the chef who is mis-using the ingredients, we won't be successful.

JTS

 

[Shane]

This is really more of an indictment of the DC and his staff, isn't it?

Just as the need for better offensive game planing required that we replace Green with Whiz, in order to maximize the talents of the great players we had already assembled, doesn't this also mean that we need to take a long hard look at who we have running the show, and discover who is not maximizing the talent we have on defense?

To me, the analogy is like a restaurant. We have people in place who are fairly good at picking out the ingredients for the menu, but until we replace the chef who is mis-using the ingredients, we won't be successful.

JTS

Maybe. Maybe not. Or it could as simple as our players on D arent as good as we think they are.

In fact people like 82 And a huge majority claim Dockett is the most important. I would argue that Campbell in only his 2nd year and 1st starting may be more important. He was = to Dockett in sacks and should have had two more if not for the early season whiff and the bounce off of vince young. He had more pressures. Batted more passes and blocked 2 FG's. He was easily more disruptive as a whole IMO and was seeing double teams like dockett because of it.

 

[kerouac9]

Listen we think we have all these great players on Defense Dockett, Dansby, DRC, Wilson and a few others like Campbell, Watson, Hayes who we consider at least decent.

Yet for some reason our defenses just aren't that good. Even this year when we had 3 defenders make the PB our total D was somewhere in the 20's. (to lazy to look it up exactly) With all the supposed "talent" we have this D should be in the top 10 no questions asked. Does anyone know if there is another D in the league with 3 PBers that isnt in the top 10?

The simple fact is that with the exception of the GB game Dansby has been quiet all year and barely making any game changing plays. In fact he was bouncing off quite a few tackles. His overall season performance I guess you could say was mediocre. There is a reason he doesn't even get a sniff for the PB from the players and coaches.

I think we all greatly overrate ALL of the players on this D and I think many of them could be replaced easier than you think. The OVERALL defesnsive #'s IMO back that up.

I guess. We were 20th in yardage and T18th in scoring. All that without an outside pass-rushing threat. That's pretty solid, especially considering that the same unit was 28th in the NFL in scoring last year. And this was the first year under a new coaching regime, not the 3rd or 4th.

If you're going to replace players across the board, then you're not moving the defense forward, you're setting it back to square one for another year.

 

[kerouac9]

Agreed... we are thin throughout our entire defense. Seriously, it's not just at linebacker. We have zero quality depth at virtually every position. It's unsettling to think that we might be hoping beyond all hope that Cody Brown and Will Davis develop into something... Yikes!

I don't know. I'd bet there are 15-18 teams in the NFL that would kill for the depth along the defensive line that we have right now. And probably for the offensive line depth that we'll go into 2010 with.

The depth at OLB and CB is troubling. The lack of long-term planning at CB over the past five years probably cost us a trip to the NFC Championship game this year. But I think that Will Davis has already shown himself to be a nice NFL player, and expect him to continue to develop into an Antonio Smith-quality player over the next few years.

 

[Shane]

I guess. We were 20th in yardage and T18th in scoring. All that without an outside pass-rushing threat. That's pretty solid, especially considering that the same unit was 28th in the NFL in scoring last year. And this was the first year under a new coaching regime, not the 3rd or 4th.

If you're going to replace players across the board, then you're not moving the defense forward, you're setting it back to square one for another year.

I don't buy the whole outside pass rush excuse. This team got plenty of sacks and pressure. Had more sacks in a season than any in the last 25 years.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't buy the whole outside pass rush excuse. This team got plenty of sacks and pressure. Had more sacks in a season than any in the last 25 years.

Yeah, but when you have to manufacture sacks with smoke and mirrors, that's where those open zones come from when the rusher doesn't get to the QB. Also, because you're rushing five or six, that means that you're playing your corners in three-deep coverage, and that's why you see seven-yard gaps between the corners and WRs on the outside.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Yeah, but when you have to manufacture sacks with smoke and mirrors, that's where those open zones come from when the rusher doesn't get to the QB. Also, because you're rushing five or six, that means that you're playing your corners in three-deep coverage, and that's why you see seven-yard gaps between the corners and WRs on the outside.

Yep.

There were very few sacks that where made by just rushing 4 or 5 guys.

You wanna know why our team cannot beat the Niners, look no further than Justin Smith and his amazing pass rush abilities.

Campbell and Dockett were doing well, but when Campbell vanished all the attention went to Dockett and our 4/5 man pass rushed vanished.

Haggans, and to a much larger extent Okeafor were absolutely awful in getting to the QB.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yeah, but when you have to manufacture sacks with smoke and mirrors, that's where those open zones come from when the rusher doesn't get to the QB. Also, because you're rushing five or six, that means that you're playing your corners in three-deep coverage, and that's why you see seven-yard gaps between the corners and WRs on the outside.

So.... all this brings me back to our piss-poor tackling. Is that coaching or is it simply bad, crappy talent??
We actually had more sacks than the Saints during the regular season. Where are their "open zones"?? Why are they still playing? The Vikings had only 5 more sacks than we did... Hell, we had 11 more sacks than the mighty Jets! 9 more than the Colts.

I dunno K9... the issues are far more than simply not having legit edge rushers. It's an issue we can hopefully address for sure. But I think the bigger issue just me be that players like Dansby and DRC are not nearly as good as we want to think...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Haggans, and to a much larger extent Okeafor were absolutely awful in getting to the QB.

That's because they actually have one move to get to the QB. The speed outside rush. The problem with that is that they aren't exactly fast to begin with.

 

[MadCardDisease]

We all knew that when we franchised Dansby again this past year that we were essentially renting him for one more year.

It's no shocker that he will seek riches else where.

 

[Shane]

So.... all this brings me back to our piss-poor tackling. Is that coaching or is it simply bad, crappy talent??
We actually had more sacks than the Saints during the regular season. Where are their "open zones"?? Why are they still playing? The Vikings had only 5 more sacks than we did... Hell, we had 11 more sacks than the mighty Jets! 9 more than the Colts.

I dunno K9... the issues are far more than simply not having legit edge rushers. It's an issue we can hopefully address for sure. But I think the bigger issue just me be that players like Dansby and DRC are not nearly as good as we want to think...

The general rule of thumb is that if you get pressure on the QB and get sacks that it greatly helps the secondary. Whether it by blitzing or whatever means. Its obvious that we put plenty of pressure on the QB this year.

You hear the analysts such as Jaworski say it all the time. They don't use blitzing as an excuse for the secondary when you are successful at it. Which we obviously were.

Obviously if you can get pressure with four it is an advantage. That goes without saying. But you have to work with what you got. Our two DE's seemed to be pretty good at getting pressure most of the year. Yet our CB's were still terrible at times.

 

[football karma]

on Dansby-- this is simply a case of the team putting a value on a player and the player believing a different number.

The Pace contract has a hand in this -- Karlos saw a good but not great player get a huge payday. Therefore -- he expects one.

It will be very interesting to see if somebody jumps during free agency. The issue he will face is that he just isnt a pass rush from the edge (even on the blitz) kinda player.

I dont know if a team will pay huge dollars ($10mm + per year avg / $25mm sb up front) for a well rounded, valuable, 3 down linebacker that will get 4 sacks a year from blitzing.

 

[JeffGollin]

We can torture ourselves to death trying to figure out who will or will not remain with the team.

My guess - There will be some pleasant surprises and some disappointments. That's just how it turns out when overall salary requirements exceed the cap. Something's got to give (Just what those "somethings" will be represents the Great Unknown).

Best we can do is wait for various shoes to drop and hope that Rod G, Wiz and Steve K are on the ball.

One thing I wouldn't do, though, is to let rumors, observations, teammate, agent or player-comments drive us nuts. (Lots of posturing as the jockeying for bucks moves forward).

 

[ReddBird]

I think Dansby is gone, too. I regret it but I wish him well. He played hard while here.

Still, his bottom line remains the $$$. He's been clear about this: He's waiting for the magical dump truck. You know the one -- it shows up at your house and drops a ton of greenbacks on the driveway. And the next thing you know, he'll have signed with a cr*p team but the bank teller smiles at him every Monday.

Pretty much the opposite of what AW did.

 

[Shane]

Pretty much the opposite of what AW did.

No really. Because AW got his truck full of green too. He was just reasonable in his demands. Dansby isn't.

 

[kerouac9]

So.... all this brings me back to our piss-poor tackling. Is that coaching or is it simply bad, crappy talent??
We actually had more sacks than the Saints during the regular season. Where are their "open zones"?? Why are they still playing? The Vikings had only 5 more sacks than we did... Hell, we had 11 more sacks than the mighty Jets! 9 more than the Colts.

I dunno K9... the issues are far more than simply not having legit edge rushers. It's an issue we can hopefully address for sure. But I think the bigger issue just me be that players like Dansby and DRC are not nearly as good as we want to think...

What does it have to do with bad tackling?

The Saints had a handful of sack artists in Will Smith (13.5 sacks, 2nd in the NFC), Charles Grant (5.5 sacks), and Anthony Hargrove (5.0 sacks). They also had a really good defensive line rotation between Sendrick Ellis and Bobby McCray. Having a guy that's going to command double-teams on every pass play can't be undervalued.

Knowing where your pass rush is going to come from with your personnel allows a defensive coordinator to be much more effective with how they defend the back end. Yeah, we had 13 players with at least 1 sack, and 4 players with 5 or more, but do you really want to see Bertrand Berry and Clark Haggans and their combined 11 sacks back next year?

 

[Shane]

There are 5 other teams with 3 Pro Bowlers on Defense. None of them is ranked lower than 13th in total Defense.

Green Bay #2
Baltimore #3
Denver #7
Philly # 12
Houston #13

I know it's a meaningless stat but is interesting that we have 3 PBers on the defensive side of the ball yet can't even crack the top 15 in total Defense.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

There are 5 other teams with 3 Pro Bowlers on Defense. None of them is ranked lower than 13th in total Defense.

Green Bay #2
Baltimore #3
Denver #7
Philly # 12
Houston #13

I know it's a meaningless stat but is interesting that we have 3 PBers on the defensive side of the ball yet can't even crack the top 15 in total Defense.

It has to be fan voting that got them in. I honestly don't even think those 3 guys had the best year on defense this year. Maybe Dockett but I'd put Rolle up there, for sure ahead of Wilson this year. DRC came on late but never REALLY consitant. I think Rolle could have been one of our best defensive players this year. And was for sure one of our best tacklers.

 

[cardsfanmd]

No really. Because AW got his truck full of green too. He was just reasonable in his demands. Dansby isn't.

Wrong. A-Dub took less money and far less recognition to stay here last time. His most recent contract was done very quick because the Cards came correct because of what he has done for the franchise. Playing for the Cards has definitely hurt his chances of being the the Pro Bowl and maybe having a shot at the HOF, but he stayed anyway. It wasn't about the money, it was about the fact that he wanted to be a part of turning the franchise around.

Dansby on the other hand has made it abundantly clear that he wants $$ and nothing else. If the Raiders offer him the most money he will be wearing black and silver come September.

Without even considering what he does on the field, Wilson is easily one of the greatest Cardinals of all time. Every true Cardinal fan should own an Adrian Wilson jersey.

 

[Shogun]

While I would be disappointed in seeing Dansby leave, after seeing him slapped with the tag for two years straight I've just accepted the fact that he's gone. I think his loss will be a lot bigger than some think, but spending pass rusher money on a 3-4 ILB is a no-no.