Amare probably done for season - New surgery on right knee

LakeShowMan

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Just want to chime in, and let you guys know that I feel your pain on this one. As a Cleveland Browns fan I know how tough it is to draft a young stud, and then continue to lose them to injury time after time.

Amare is a complete stud, when healthy, and these knee concerns suck.

Hopefully, like Chap said, the left knee will be back to normal next season and the right will simply be the issue with the cyst and nothing more. The NBA will be a lesser league, without a healty Amare, dunking on anyone and everyone.

Keep your heads up. You still have the reigning MVP, and the #2 seed in the West.
 

jibikao

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golfcardfan said:
WOW you guys are a little doom and gloom to early here. Lets wait and see what was done before we start declaring his career is over. He did not have enough time to come back from the microfracture no one has ever come back that quickly and played even close to their ability's. He will be back just needs the time to heal fully and mentally get ready to go. His conditioning is/was far from where the suns need it for their up and down game. His career is not done some of you alarmists are amazing to just assume this, we will see in due time we he can actually finish recovering from the surgery.

I am not sure who thinks Amare's career is over but THIS SEASON, he is over and that's just the truth. It's disappointing but it's not a surprise.
 

boisesuns

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Yeah, it's rough but probably for the best that Amare won't be back this year. This team will play fine without him. I'm not sure how we will do this year in the playoffs, but there will be plently of rest between games and series for nash and company, so i'm not going to write off the suns at all.
 

TucsonDevil

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Amare,
Hope to have you back healthy again. I Wish you a speedy recovery.

Signed, Suns fan with gun in mouth.
 

elindholm

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Well, at least it wasn't another microfracture procedure...

Whew. Dodged a major bullet there.

Eight weeks, hmm? Wouldn't that get him back in time for the Finals? :p
 

scoutmasterdave

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elindholm said:
Well, at least it wasn't another microfracture procedure...

Whew. Dodged a major bullet there.

Eight weeks, hmm? Wouldn't that get him back in time for the Finals? :p
LOL
 

Folster

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Stoudemire has nothing more than "wear and tear" with some debris to remove in the joint.

How old is Amare?? He is awfully young to be having all of these problems. This doesn't bode well for the longevity of his career.
 

CardsFan88

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the thing that concerns me is this. Amare wants everything looked at and taken care of. Sometimes the best surgery is no surgery. Even if they fix the problem the knee is never the same. My point isn't doom and gloom but more of calling amare out. The fact is he has to realize that by playing any sport, by the time you are 40 you are probably going to have a lot of permanent aches and pains. It seems to be that he is starting to get some he didn't have as a kid and is freaked out about it and saying, take care of this, do surgery, when surgery might not be the best option. A baker's cyst?

The good part of the surgery is that it gives amare more time to heal that left knee. The right knee I really don't have too much concern with, except for the fact that the surgery itself might make it worse.

Not to mention after not running around for a while, your knees are going to hurt. I have a feeling that his right knee surgery is only a product of him not realizing this. Or not at least not coming to terms with it.

What's he going to do when 1 or both knees now start to ache at the start of the season? At what point does he just suck it up and play through the pain? I obviously want amare at 100 percent, but at some point he has to realize that after surgery you'll never be 100 percent. You may have 99% explosion, but odds are your knees will never FEEL 100% again. I just hope he realizes this before have 3 more surgeries on his knees and playing in 50 games over the next 3 seasons combined.

I'm not doom and gloom, and this may not happen, I'm just saying by the comments I've heard I think his expectations are unrealistic, his trust in surgery 'fixing' everything is misplaced, and although he has to think of the future, he already has his huge contract. Future or not, he's being paid to play now. Shut him down and see what happens next year, but if he feels pain, and there really isn't much going on with the knee I think it would be time for some tough love and tell him to gut it out. The suns didn't dole out the contract so he has a perfect knee 7 years from now. (which even without any surgeries would never happen anyway)

Truly I hope i'm reading too much into this, and I'll hope for the best :)
 
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The headline on the Suns' main page is, Stoudemire Season Over.

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/release_060405.html


Stoudemire Undergoes Successful Surgery


Posted: April 5, 2006 Suns forward/center Amarè Stoudemire underwent arthroscopic surgery on his right knee at Banner Samaritan Outpatient Surgical Center this morning.

Team orthopedic surgeon Dr. Thomas Carter performed the procedure to remove debris caused by wear and tear of the knee cap. The resulting inflammation led to the development of a Baker’s cyst and associated pressure behind the joint. No isolated defect was found and the cyst was aspirated.

The 23-year-old will be on crutches 7-10 days and his return to court activities is estimated to take six to eight weeks. He will not return this season.

The Pacific Division-leading Phoenix Suns (49-24) host the Los Angeles Clippers (43-30) at 7:30 p.m. tonight at the US Airways Center. The game will be televised nationally on ESPN and locally on PHX 45.
 
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az1965

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Big D said:
Man this blows. At this point I just hope Amare can come back next year and be about 75% of the player he was in 04-05. His game is going to have to change a little bit, hopefully he can adjust and still be a dominant player.
I'm sorry but this 75%, 80%, 85% Amare crap is so lame! Either he is 100% or he is not the same player. And I'm leaning more towards not the same player. I hope and wish I'm completely wrong!

He was dominant because the things he could do. Because he was Amare! Anything less will not be the Amare that made him one of the top dominant players at present and perhaps the most dominant player in the next few years.

Talking about crapy luck of the Suns... When they got one of those players who can take them to promise land he ended up with two wobbly knees...
 
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myrondizzo

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i think what made amare so dangerous was the he could blow by his guy if they came out to guard him or hit the jumper if they left him open. when i watched the portland game he still had that ability to get past his man and hit the jumper. the thing that might not be back is his explosiveness to throw down with authority. i will miss the constant posterizing of the other teams big men. but i still think that if he can only regain 75-85 percent of his explosivness he can still be just as dominant.
 

sly fly

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I think the "finality" of Amare's season being over will give the current players a litle shot in the arm.

PHX will be projected to be a 1st round upset against the Lakers by various media outlets.

PHX will use this as motivation starting tonight against the Clippers. Just as they used this as motivation earlier in the year. The net result was that they kicked the hell out of many teams.

If you're a betting man, take PHX minus the points tonight against a weary Clipper team (which used a lot of energy in coming back last night).
 

baltimorer

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This is exactly what the f*ck I was talking about! This is why I don't trust the stupid Suns doctors and trainers. Does anybody here think that Amare would have developed a "Baker's cyst" and "pressure behind his knee cap" if his left knee was healthy and he wasn't hopping around on his right?

Of course not. Amare is a 23 year old man, and possibly best combination of strength and athleticism this league has ever seen! And then the doctors say, "Well, the MRI looks good, get out there and injure something else."

You can never try to come back before you feel perfectly healthy when it comes to a leg injury. You just can't. And if you do, and you end up being fine, then you're extremely lucky. But if you don't...

I don't want to be a "blame the doctors" for everything type person, but someone should be fired for this.
 

baltimorer

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Oh, and if you were wondering, Amare is not going to play with the American team this summer. He's going to rehab on his own with a few excellent trainers, and he's going to start saying that he just "wants to make sure that this time he is completely, 100% healthy."

And if you feel nervous now, don't worry, because you'll feel at least somewhat reassured once Coach D'Antoni starts talking about the extra time he has to rest and rehab will allow him to be "perfectly ready for the start of training camp in October."
 

Chaplin

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baltimorer said:
This is exactly what the f*ck I was talking about! This is why I don't trust the stupid Suns doctors and trainers. Does anybody here think that Amare would have developed a "Baker's cyst" and "pressure behind his knee cap" if his left knee was healthy and he wasn't hopping around on his right?

Of course not. Amare is a 23 year old man, and possibly best combination of strength and athleticism this league has ever seen! And then the doctors say, "Well, the MRI looks good, get out there and injure something else."

You can never try to come back before you feel perfectly healthy when it comes to a leg injury. You just can't. And if you do, and you end up being fine, then you're extremely lucky. But if you don't...

I don't want to be a "blame the doctors" for everything type person, but someone should be fired for this.

Calm down. The biggest blame in all this has to fall on Amare himself. As far as the doctors were concerned, his left knee was in great shape -- AND STILL IS. And again, fluid in the knees is a normal occurance, my guess is that the cyst didn't even develop until very recently.

But to say that the doctors are causing his injuries is ludicrous--paranoid delusion at its finest.
 

Chaplin

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baltimorer said:
Oh, and if you were wondering, Amare is not going to play with the American team this summer. He's going to rehab on his own with a few excellent trainers, and he's going to start saying that he just "wants to make sure that this time he is completely, 100% healthy."

And how do you know that?
 

golfcardfan

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baltimorer is obviously smarter than everyone else and somehow knows what amare is going to do! Whatever, speculation is just that you guessing or thinking you know whats going to happen. Amare seems a little fragile minded thinking his comeback is EVER going to be painless. He is going to have to work through it.
 

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az1965 said:
I'm sorry but this 75%, 80%, 85% Amare crap is so lame! Either he is 100% or he is not the same player. And I'm leaning more towards not the same player. I hope and wish I'm completely wrong!

He was dominant because the things he could do. Because he was Amare! Anything less will not be the Amare that made him one of the top dominant players at present and perhaps the most dominant player in the next few years.

Talking about crapy luck of the Suns... When they got one of those players who can take them to promise land he ended up with two wobbly knees...

I think that people are delusional if they think that players dont age, even without injuries, into 90% 85%, 65% etc. As a player ages his game must change to compensate for the loss of athleticism. Michael Jordan slid physically from where he was a a rookie(incredible) to the last year before his first retirement. He lost elevation and quickness and had to compensate with veteran guile and newly developed muscle. By the time he played for his last championship, he shot 35% FG's in the playoffs cause he wasnt athletic enough to shake his defender anymore. Only MJ could escape criticism for shooting 35% FG's. He was probably at 60% physically or worse vs. when he entered the NBA. To win the final game he had to fend off(a foul that, of course, wasnt called) Byron Russel to get his shot off, it was pathetic. I cant ever remember a player in modern NBA history, who led his team to the NBA championship shooting 35% FG's.

Amare will have to retool his game for 2 reasons:

1) physically he will lose something after the surgery, and he does not want to keep pounding the knees, accelerating the aging process. Obviously he was banged around alot last year, which cannot be continued or he will have a short career. If he is a threat as a passer, he will keep opponents off balance and punish them for the double and triple teams that opposing teams used to bang him around last year.

2) This years suns pass the ball around alot more, Amare needs to come back and fit in, not dominate the ball. This years suns team plays better team ball. If Amare dominates the ball, others like Marion, Diaw, Barbosa will be less productive. Amare should save his most athletic moves for the end of close games, where he will be needed as a "go to guy" to help close out opponents.

Amare has a very good shot for a 6'11" player, he can be used to draw opponents' shot blockers(like Ben Wallace) out of the lane for better penetrations and scores by Nash, Diaw, and Barbosa. I think he will still have alot of pop for a big guy, but he must conserve it for important situations that help the team win.
 

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As much as I can't stand this "probably" nonsense the media likes to play, the responses to these articles are equally annoying. Seeing as how I know nothing about these procedures or anything related, I'm not going to attempt to guess about how Amare will or will not be next season. The Suns have won 49 games with 9 games left in the season and have had a terrific year. A championship given the lack frontcourt depth is improbable but I believe in this team and will follow them just like I would if they had Amare. Go Suns!
 

Big D

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az1965 said:
I'm sorry but this 75%, 80%, 85% Amare crap is so lame! Either he is 100% or he is not the same player. And I'm leaning more towards not the same player. I hope and wish I'm completely wrong!

He was dominant because the things he could do. Because he was Amare! Anything less will not be the Amare that made him one of the top dominant players at present and perhaps the most dominant player in the next few years.

I agree with you as far as him not being the same, I was just being more specific as to what degree 'he is not the same player'. He's probably not going to be the same player he was pre injury ever again, but he can however still dominate, it will just have to be in different ways than he was dominating before. If you're saying that's not possible, I don't agree with that. Amare is skilled enough with his back to the basket and young enough to be a dominant post player even without the super athleticism of his first few seasons. In fact, most of the all time great post players are boderline unathletic, at least nowhere near as athletic as Amare was. He's very, very young, and he will now have to learn as all NBA players do at some point how to rely on skill and savvy more than raw athleticism. STAT scored over 26 a game in 04-05, 75% of that production would still have him right around 20 a game next year, and with Nash and the perimeter players the Suns have, there is no reason to think he couldn't be a dominating post presense for us without 10 dunks a game.
 

az1965

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nowagimp said:
I think that people are delusional if they think that players dont age, even without injuries, into 90% 85%, 65% etc. As a player ages his game must change to compensate for the loss of athleticism. Michael Jordan slid physically from where he was a a rookie(incredible) to the last year before his first retirement. He lost elevation and quickness and had to compensate with veteran guile and newly developed muscle. By the time he played for his last championship, he shot 35% FG's in the playoffs cause he wasnt athletic enough to shake his defender anymore. Only MJ could escape criticism for shooting 35% FG's. He was probably at 60% physically or worse vs. when he entered the NBA. To win the final game he had to fend off(a foul that, of course, wasnt called) Byron Russel to get his shot off, it was pathetic. I cant ever remember a player in modern NBA history, who led his team to the NBA championship shooting 35% FG's.
But we are not talking age compensation. The analogy with Jordan is not correct. We are talking two surgically repaired knees impacting his abilities. This is like fast forwarding 15 years of Jordan to 3 years of Amare...
 

az1965

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Big D said:
Amare is skilled enough with his back to the basket and young enough to be a dominant post player even without the super athleticism of his first few seasons.
Amare still has to learn a lot. He is not yet skilled enough to compensate for his lack of explosiveness and athleticism. Nash acknowledged that fact publicly last week.

Big D said:
In fact, most of the all time great post players are boderline unathletic, at least nowhere near as athletic as Amare was. He's very, very young, and he will now have to learn as all NBA players do at some point how to rely on skill and savvy more than raw athleticism. STAT scored over 26 a game in 04-05, 75% of that production would still have him right around 20 a game next year, and with Nash and the perimeter players the Suns have, there is no reason to think he couldn't be a dominating post presense for us without 10 dunks a game.
Sure, but this skill and savvy is not what puts 'fear' in the players guarding him at low post. This skill and savvy needed as the player starts to age. Of course all of this is pure speculation and we will not know until he is back on the floor next season.
 

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Honestly, I don't think Amare will be the same as before. There will be less explosive dunks but it may be better for his overall career.

I also don't think Amare will have a long career. The surgeries came way too soon IMO. Amare is not even 25!

Just went to the Lakerground forum and they seem to be a lot more negative. Many of them don't think Amare will be the same anymore. Hopefully Amare can figure out some ways to be dominating in other area. But it is Amare's explosiveness that attracted my attention in the first place.

Do you feel Suns' cursed?
 

baltimorer

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Chaplin said:
Calm down. The biggest blame in all this has to fall on Amare himself. As far as the doctors were concerned, his left knee was in great shape -- AND STILL IS. And again, fluid in the knees is a normal occurance, my guess is that the cyst didn't even develop until very recently.

But to say that the doctors are causing his injuries is ludicrous--paranoid delusion at its finest.

How can you blame Amare for this? Sure, part of it is his fault. He should've been a little more responsible and mature in knowing that he wasn't ready to come back. However, he is just a young guy who loves playing basketball and couldn't wait to get back on the court. He had that "itch." And it is the doctors' and trainers' jobs to understand this and to say that, "although your left knee is structurally sound, we strongly recommend against your coming back for risk of new injury." The blame has to go all around, and I know that the final decision was up to Amare, but understand that the power of desire is strong. If the doctors are saying, "You look okay," and you really want to get out and play, you feel like you can just fight through some of the odd pains and play, even though you may know in your heart that you're not completely healthy.

In response to your, "And how do you know that?" question, let me give you this analogy:

Your mommy wakes you and Snuggles (your stuffed animal that is frayed and ripped from all these years, but that you won't give up cause you "wuv" him so much) up in the morning. You go downstairs, and, alas, she has a bowl of Lucky Charmes and 2% milk for you already set out on the table, with the little spoon that you like. You might think to yourself, "And how did you know that" I wanted Lucky Charmes? It is possible that last night, you saw a Frosted Flakes commercial and have since become so enamored with that big, burly Tony the Tiger, and that you no longer like Lucky Charmes. But, considering that you have, so many times in the past, asked mommy for lucky charmes, she just figured that this morning would be similar.

Here is how this relates to the current Amare situation. I don't KNOW that Amare is going to rest for the summer and try to come back healthy for the start of training camp. He might be ready before then, and he might feel confident enough to participate in summer activities with the U.S. team. But, judging from the way this rehab has gone so far, and from the way I've seen other players recover from similar surgeries, I can predict with a fair amount of confidence that the situation is going to play out as I have stipulated. In the past few weeks, you have had a pretty large problem with me trying to make predictions about Amare's future, because it seems as though you don't understand what a "prediction" or a "forecast" is. All I am doing is taking previous, sometimes unrelated statistics and applying them to Amare's situation in an effort to predict the way that future events will play out.

It is kind of like, about a week ago, right after Amare decided to shut it down (at least for a little while), and you said, in no unsure words, "Amare will be back this season." I am guessing that you didn't just pull this prediction out of nowhere; you probably thought about some past observations and applied them to Amare, in a way that made you confident enough to declare that Amare would be back. Obviously, this recent news proves you wrong, but it doesn't mean that your attempt wasn't justified. It simply means that you aren't yet ready to be making such bold statements, and that you should stick to your tried and true, "I don't know what's going on, cause I'm not the doctor" approach.
 
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