Amare probably done for season - New surgery on right knee

elindholm

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Your mommy wakes you and Snuggles (your stuffed animal that is frayed and ripped from all these years, but that you won't give up cause you "wuv" him so much) up in the morning. You go downstairs, and, alas, she has a bowl of Lucky Charmes and 2% milk for you already set out on the table, with the little spoon that you like. You might think to yourself, "And how did you know that" I wanted Lucky Charmes? It is possible that last night, you saw a Frosted Flakes commercial and have since become so enamored with that big, burly Tony the Tiger, and that you no longer like Lucky Charmes. But, considering that you have, so many times in the past, asked mommy for lucky charmes, she just figured that this morning would be similar.

I stand corrected. You are therealhardaway. Welcome back, I guess.
 

Chaplin

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Look, aside from the fact that you wrote a book, I think when it comes down to it, you and I are on similar wavelengths.

The difference is that you make assumptions based on little or no knowledge. I make my assumptions on what we DO know.
 

Gorilla

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baltimorer said:
In response to your, "And how do you know that?" question, let me give you this analogy:

Your mommy wakes you and Snuggles (your stuffed animal that is frayed and ripped from all these years, but that you won't give up cause you "wuv" him so much) up in the morning. You go downstairs, and, alas, she has a bowl of Lucky Charmes and 2% milk for you already set out on the table, with the little spoon that you like. You might think to yourself, "And how did you know that" I wanted Lucky Charmes? It is possible that last night, you saw a Frosted Flakes commercial and have since become so enamored with that big, burly Tony the Tiger, and that you no longer like Lucky Charmes. But, considering that you have, so many times in the past, asked mommy for lucky charmes, she just figured that this morning would be similar.

Are you saying you are Amare's mommy!!??
 

devilalum

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I sure hope I'm wrong but Amare is sounding more and more like Penny Hardaway Part 2.

For every guy that has had major knee problems and come back at the same level there are 1000 guys who didn't.

Is there anybody in the hall of fame that had major knee surgery early in their career? Was there anybody on the last All Star team that had major knee surgery early in his career? (first 3 years)

If you have some great examples I'd love to hear them because this thing has the potential to cripple the Suns for years.
 

boisesuns

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If he is better and comes back and hurts hiself on team USA this summer, I cant imagine the reaction of the board them.
 

Treesquid PhD

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baltimorer said:
Your mommy wakes you and Snuggles (your stuffed animal that is frayed and ripped from all these years, but that you won't give up cause you "wuv" him so much) up in the morning. You go downstairs, and, alas, she has a bowl of Lucky Charmes and 2% milk for you already set out on the table, with the little spoon that you like. You might think to yourself, "And how did you know that" I wanted Lucky Charmes? It is possible that last night, you saw a Frosted Flakes commercial and have since become so enamored with that big, burly Tony the Tiger, and that you no longer like Lucky Charmes. But, considering that you have, so many times in the past, asked mommy for lucky charmes, she just figured that this morning would be similar.

This entire thread is stupid, but this post was so stupid it hurts.
 

nowagimp

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az1965 said:
But we are not talking age compensation. The analogy with Jordan is not correct. We are talking two surgically repaired knees impacting his abilities. This is like fast forwarding 15 years of Jordan to 3 years of Amare...

15 years of jordan and three of amare. Wow, you know already how much these surgeries have diminished amare's future physical skills? As far as surgically repaired knees, you are way off base to compare a microfracture procedure with a scrape, which dozens of current NBA players have had with no noticable loss of athleticism. With those analogies, Jason Kidd must be playing like a 50 year old Jordan on his microfracture surgery. I guess a 50 year can play at an all star level (as Kidd is now doing) in the NBA. The hysteria about all this is just silly. Why dont you wait to see what amare can do before predicting his athleticism in the future? I know why, the sky is falling and everyone MUST know!!! Chickens, little and big, go HIDE!

Karl Malone could never jump or move with speed, and he was "only" the second leading scorer in NBA history. Tim Duncan won a championship(and maybe another one this year) with 2 disfunctional ankles. Amare will probably be quicker and jump better than Malone or Duncan ever were, on his "surgically repaired" knees. All this crap about "if he's not 100%" he's not the same player is not an important factor in the suns quest for a championship. Ninety percent will be enough to win it all next year, with this years supporting cast. Players continuously evolve in the league, they are not the same players because they get smarter and use smarts instead of brute force or athleticism. This injury will force Amare to be a smarter, better player. Jordan never won anything before he was down at least 10% or so in his athleticism, then he won 6 titles. Anyone who saw MJ as a 1st or second year player knows that he was noticeably more explosive than he was at 6-8 years in the league. He just became alot smarter as his athletic skills eroded. Smarts wins games and championships in the NBA, not jumping jack athleticism and one-on-one play.
 

Chaplin

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devilalum said:
I sure hope I'm wrong but Amare is sounding more and more like Penny Hardaway Part 2.

For every guy that has had major knee problems and come back at the same level there are 1000 guys who didn't.

Is there anybody in the hall of fame that had major knee surgery early in their career? Was there anybody on the last All Star team that had major knee surgery early in his career? (first 3 years)

If you have some great examples I'd love to hear them because this thing has the potential to cripple the Suns for years.

People say microfracture and it's major surgery. For Penny Hardaway and Chris Webber, it was. For Amare?

Everybody is freaking out about the microfracture surgery, but what everyone is not seeing is that his LEFT KNEE IS FINE. Everybody has consistently said that left knee is in good shape.

The right knee was basically a cleaning, that's it---pretty far from "major" surgery.
 

devilalum

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Chaplin said:
People say microfracture and it's major surgery. For Penny Hardaway and Chris Webber, it was. For Amare?

Everybody is freaking out about the microfracture surgery, but what everyone is not seeing is that his LEFT KNEE IS FINE. Everybody has consistently said that left knee is in good shape.

The right knee was basically a cleaning, that's it---pretty far from "major" surgery.

I hindsight it would have made more since to just shut him down for the year back in October. That way Amare wouldn't have had to deal with all the pressure and we would have had to endure all the rediculous on again off again reports.

Chaplin - You need to change your signature line. Now it reads more like sarcasm.
 

SirStefan32

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baltimorer said:
How can you blame Amare for this? Sure, part of it is his fault. He should've been a little more responsible and mature in knowing that he wasn't ready to come back. However, he is just a young guy who loves playing basketball and couldn't wait to get back on the court. He had that "itch." And it is the doctors' and trainers' jobs to understand this and to say that, "although your left knee is structurally sound, we strongly recommend against your coming back for risk of new injury." The blame has to go all around, and I know that the final decision was up to Amare, but understand that the power of desire is strong. If the doctors are saying, "You look okay," and you really want to get out and play, you feel like you can just fight through some of the odd pains and play, even though you may know in your heart that you're not completely healthy.

In response to your, "And how do you know that?" question, let me give you this analogy:

Your mommy wakes you and Snuggles (your stuffed animal that is frayed and ripped from all these years, but that you won't give up cause you "wuv" him so much) up in the morning. You go downstairs, and, alas, she has a bowl of Lucky Charmes and 2% milk for you already set out on the table, with the little spoon that you like. You might think to yourself, "And how did you know that" I wanted Lucky Charmes? It is possible that last night, you saw a Frosted Flakes commercial and have since become so enamored with that big, burly Tony the Tiger, and that you no longer like Lucky Charmes. But, considering that you have, so many times in the past, asked mommy for lucky charmes, she just figured that this morning would be similar.

Here is how this relates to the current Amare situation. I don't KNOW that Amare is going to rest for the summer and try to come back healthy for the start of training camp. He might be ready before then, and he might feel confident enough to participate in summer activities with the U.S. team. But, judging from the way this rehab has gone so far, and from the way I've seen other players recover from similar surgeries, I can predict with a fair amount of confidence that the situation is going to play out as I have stipulated. In the past few weeks, you have had a pretty large problem with me trying to make predictions about Amare's future, because it seems as though you don't understand what a "prediction" or a "forecast" is. All I am doing is taking previous, sometimes unrelated statistics and applying them to Amare's situation in an effort to predict the way that future events will play out.

It is kind of like, about a week ago, right after Amare decided to shut it down (at least for a little while), and you said, in no unsure words, "Amare will be back this season." I am guessing that you didn't just pull this prediction out of nowhere; you probably thought about some past observations and applied them to Amare, in a way that made you confident enough to declare that Amare would be back. Obviously, this recent news proves you wrong, but it doesn't mean that your attempt wasn't justified. It simply means that you aren't yet ready to be making such bold statements, and that you should stick to your tried and true, "I don't know what's going on, cause I'm not the doctor" approach.

Next time you have a thought... let it go, man.
 

baltimorer

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Actually Chap, I do apologize. I was kidding, but it still was kinda mean sounding (with the cereal part). I think I was just hungry when I wrote it, and to be honest, I really do like Lucky Charms.
 

Mainstreet

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Here's my current take on the situation. Amare played well on his injured left knee which had the most serious injury and caused the most worry during his brief comeback. It was his right knee that caused the the current problem.

Now the second surgery was just to drain some fluid from his right knee and to remove some debris (caused by normal wear and tear) which was causing the cyst.

Yes, I still am concerned about Amare's knees but I feel a whole lot better now that the problem has been resolved in his right knee as well.

Seriously, how many people would be overly concerned about Amare's ability to return to near full health if he only had this relatively minor surgery on his right knee (if he had not had the previous surgery to his left knee)?

The more serious problem with his left knee (at least for now) does not appear problematic. I don't think his right knee will stop him from being just as good a player as he displayed in the Portland game.
 
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az1965

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nowagimp said:
15 years of jordan and three of amare. Wow, you know already how much these surgeries have diminished amare's future physical skills? As far as surgically repaired knees, you are way off base to compare a microfracture procedure with a scrape, which dozens of current NBA players have had with no noticable loss of athleticism. With those analogies, Jason Kidd must be playing like a 50 year old Jordan on his microfracture surgery. I guess a 50 year can play at an all star level (as Kidd is now doing) in the NBA. The hysteria about all this is just silly. Why dont you wait to see what amare can do before predicting his athleticism in the future? I know why, the sky is falling and everyone MUST know!!! Chickens, little and big, go HIDE!

Karl Malone could never jump or move with speed, and he was "only" the second leading scorer in NBA history. Tim Duncan won a championship(and maybe another one this year) with 2 disfunctional ankles. Amare will probably be quicker and jump better than Malone or Duncan ever were, on his "surgically repaired" knees. All this crap about "if he's not 100%" he's not the same player is not an important factor in the suns quest for a championship. Ninety percent will be enough to win it all next year, with this years supporting cast. Players continuously evolve in the league, they are not the same players because they get smarter and use smarts instead of brute force or athleticism. This injury will force Amare to be a smarter, better player. Jordan never won anything before he was down at least 10% or so in his athleticism, then he won 6 titles. Anyone who saw MJ as a 1st or second year player knows that he was noticeably more explosive than he was at 6-8 years in the league. He just became alot smarter as his athletic skills eroded. Smarts wins games and championships in the NBA, not jumping jack athleticism and one-on-one play.
For every example you quote there are several examples that did not work out. So my question is how do YOU know?
 
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Chaplin

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baltimorer said:
Actually Chap, I do apologize. I was kidding, but it still was kinda mean sounding (with the cereal part). I think I was just hungry when I wrote it, and to be honest, I really do like Lucky Charms.

Just to be argumentative...

I don't like Lucky Charms. Doctors say it's got too much sugar. :D
 

fordronken

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Chaplin said:
Just to be argumentative...

I don't like Lucky Charms. Doctors say it's got too much sugar. :D

What doctors? Sure. It's too much sugar for Chris Webber or Penny Hardaway, but we're talking about a totally different digestive system with Amare. This is the guy, remember, who made Robert Sarver stop for Wendy's after they recruited Steve Nash.

People really overreact to this stuff.
 

Dan H

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Michael Jordan broke a bone in his foot and missed 60+ games the second year of his career. He dedicated himself to rehab and came back better than ever.

I know that knees and feet are two different things, but feet can be even more debilitating than knees - take Bill Walton, for example.
 

devilalum

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nowagimp said:
Karl Malone could never jump or move with speed, and he was "only" the second leading scorer in NBA history. Tim Duncan won a championship(and maybe another one this year) with 2 disfunctional ankles. Amare will probably be quicker and jump better than Malone or Duncan ever were, on his "surgically repaired" knees. All this crap about "if he's not 100%" he's not the same player is not an important factor in the suns quest for a championship. Ninety percent will be enough to win it all next year, with this years supporting cast. Players continuously evolve in the league, they are not the same players because they get smarter and use smarts instead of brute force or athleticism. This injury will force Amare to be a smarter, better player. Jordan never won anything before he was down at least 10% or so in his athleticism, then he won 6 titles. Anyone who saw MJ as a 1st or second year player knows that he was noticeably more explosive than he was at 6-8 years in the league. He just became alot smarter as his athletic skills eroded. Smarts wins games and championships in the NBA, not jumping jack athleticism and one-on-one play.

Malone could really get up and down the floor the first 6 or 7 years he was in the league. I remember tons of fast break dunks. This is what led to the name "Mailman."
 

thegrahamcrackr

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Dan H said:
Michael Jordan broke a bone in his foot and missed 60+ games the second year of his career. He dedicated himself to rehab and came back better than ever.

I know that knees and feet are two different things, but feet can be even more debilitating than knees - take Bill Walton, for example.


Yah but Amare already did that. Remember that he missed a ton of his second season, and then came back better than ever.
 

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devilalum said:
Malone could really get up and down the floor the first 6 or 7 years he was in the league. I remember tons of fast break dunks. This is what led to the name "Mailman."

Malone was called the mailman back in college because of his consistency. You know the rain or shine, the mailman always delivers thing....

Fast break dunks didn't lead to the name.
 

devilalum

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thegrahamcrackr said:
Malone was called the mailman back in college because of his consistency. You know the rain or shine, the mailman always delivers thing....

Fast break dunks didn't lead to the name.

OK fine but I remember him getting a lot of fast break dunks and watching highlights with guys saying "The Mailman delivers once again."

He wasn't nearly as heavy his first few years in the league either.
 

boisesuns

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:mad:
"He'll start rehabbing next week, and I'd imagine his goal is to start getting ready for Team USA," said D'Antoni, an assistant on the U.S. team."
 

elindholm

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"He'll start rehabbing next week, and I'd imagine his goal is to start getting ready for Team USA," said D'Antoni, an assistant on the U.S. team."

I find that utterly incomprehensible. I have no idea why D'Antoni, as general manager, is permitting such nonsensical talk.
 

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