Another reason why Gortat needs to start

[Mainstreet]

That's right. I no longer think that Robin Lopez should come off the bench.
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I think he should stay on the bench. From start to finish.


Except for the few rebounds that come his way

He might as well be rebounding in traffic with a ping pong paddle.

I am so sick of watching him put one hand up and seeing the ball
bounce off his flat palm.

Robin Lopez is a spacehead.


A tandem of Gortat/Siler at Center would be an improvement.

I don't think so. Siler is not mobile enough to play defense right now although his offensive skills are there. However, there is no reason Gortat cannot now start with the play making abilities of Brooks.

 

[BC867]

Siler is not mobile enough to play defense right now ...

And Lopez is not smart enough.

 

[Mainstreet]

And Lopez is not smart enough.

Do you want the Suns to move Frye back to center?

 

[BC867]

Do you want the Suns to move Frye back to center?

Hell, no!

That's why I brought up Siler. Even a 300 lb. rookie (who has shown some good signs the few chances he's had) wouldn't be a step down from the World's Tallest Teenager, Robin (I'm not too freaking bright) Lopez.

If Carter has to miss some time from the collision, this would be the ideal time to make Dudley the permanent starting 2-Guard.

Then, how could we leave Gortat on the bench?

 

[Mainstreet]

Hell, no!

That's why I brought up Siler. Even a 300 lb. rookie (who has shown some good signs the few chances he's had) wouldn't be a step down from the World's Tallest Teenager, Robin (I'm not too freaking bright) Lopez.

If Carter has to miss some time from the collision, this would be the ideal time to make Dudley the permanent starting 2-Guard.

Then, how could we leave Gortat on the bench?

I said in my earlier post, with the emergence of Brooks there is no reason Lopez cannot play with the bench. I like Siler as a project, but he is not ready to play other than garbage time. If Gentry can use this as an opportunity to start Dudley, I'm willing to give it a try. He played well there before the arrival of Carter.

 

[desertdawg]

Gortat and Studley should definitley start IMO. I can see both averaging close to 20 a game plus everything else they do.

 

[Evil Ash]

Hell, no!

That's why I brought up Siler. Even a 300 lb. rookie (who has shown some good signs the few chances he's had) wouldn't be a step down from the World's Tallest Teenager, Robin (I'm not too freaking bright) Lopez.

If Carter has to miss some time from the collision, this would be the ideal time to make Dudley the permanent starting 2-Guard.

Then, how could we leave Gortat on the bench?

Carter won't miss any time. He has a minor laceration.

Siler is too immobile to play D right now. He's their project C and he's a project for a reason.

Unless Gortat managed to play both C and PF we were going to lose this game anyways. Frye was getting killed by Garnett. Having Gortat in there may have helped things a little but its doubtful we won.

More than likely the Cs got careless after the 3rd qtr because they thought they had already won the game. Our starters were awful and the bench wasn't all that good until the game was basically over. While it was nice that the bench made it look closer than it should've been, the simple fact is WE WERE DESTROYED.

We gave up twice as much as we scored in the paint even with Gortat in the game, which in UNACCEPTABLE.

I have no problem with Gortat starting but the people that have such a bromance with him that they believe is the be-all end-all for our problems are sorely mistaken

 

[Chaplin]

Hell, no!

That's why I brought up Siler. Even a 300 lb. rookie (who has shown some good signs the few chances he's had) wouldn't be a step down from the World's Tallest Teenager, Robin (I'm not too freaking bright) Lopez.

If Carter has to miss some time from the collision, this would be the ideal time to make Dudley the permanent starting 2-Guard.

Then, how could we leave Gortat on the bench?

Spoken like someone who's never seen Siler play.

 

[BC867]

Spoken like someone who's never seen Siler play.

Not only have I seen Siler play, but I've seen Lopez play. Except for his one or two baskets, and a couple of rebounds that fall into his hands, in the 1st and 3rd quarters, he looks lost out there.

I know Siler is not ready to step in as #2 at Center behind Gortat. My point was that he's no worse than Robin. And has better potential. That's my opinion.

OK, now I'll wait for your sarcasm.

 

[Chaplin]

Not only have I seen Siler play, but I've seen Lopez play. Except for his one or two baskets, and a couple of rebounds that fall into his hands, in the 1st and 3rd quarters, he looks lost out there.

I know Siler is not ready to step in as #2 at Center behind Gortat. My point was that he's no worse than Robin. And has better potential. That's my opinion.

OK, now I'll wait for your sarcasm.

Look, Robin is not that good of a player, but let's be serious for a moment. He's much better than Siler, who is borderline NBDL quality. Robin perhaps doesn't deserve to start, but he deserves to start more than Siler deserves to be a #2.

 

[Errntknght]

Actually, Siler is better than Lopez before he was put in the starting lineup. Why not start Siler for a while and see if lightning can strike twice?

 

[Chaplin]

Actually, Siler is better than Lopez before he was put in the starting lineup. Why not start Siler for a while and see if lightning can strike twice?

Absolutely not true.

I don't get this fascination with below-average borderline NBA big men. You guys love them all EXCEPT Robin Lopez. Very strange.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Absolutely not true.

I don't get this fascination with below-average borderline NBA big men. You guys love them all EXCEPT Robin Lopez. Very strange.

I think he's talking about the Lopez that played occasionally last season prior to being moved into the starting lineup. If so, THAT lopez, was as bad as they come and although Siler is far from NBA ready he couldn't be any worse than pre-starter Robin, IMO. Our current version of Lopez leaves much to be desired but he's still better than what we've seen from Siler.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I don't get this fascination with below-average borderline NBA big men. You guys love them all EXCEPT Robin Lopez.

Right, exactly! For years we've been hearing nonstop about how the Suns need to play a "traditional lineup," no matter how bad the personnel are. Now they are finally doing it, and so instead we get complaints about how some of the players aren't that good. Is Lopez a good rebounder for his position, no, but to say that Siler would be an overall improvement is lunacy.

 

[BC867]

Right, exactly! For years we've been hearing nonstop about how the Suns need to play a "traditional lineup"...

A starting Center who plays six minutes at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters is hardly a traditional lineup.

Lopez, with his couple of baskets and not much more during those six-minute stints, has obviously not earned the right to play more.

I suggested that Siler be given the same opportunity as Lopez to show what he can do. Well, not the same opportunity. I certainly wouldn't want to see him, or anyone else, starting over Gortat (as you all know).

Lopez has not succeeded. It is time to move on.

 

[Folster]

A starting Center who plays six minutes at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters is hardly a traditional lineup.

Lopez, with his couple of baskets and not much more during those six-minute stints, has obviously not earned the right to play more.

I suggested that Siler be given the same opportunity as Lopez to show what he can do. Well, not the same opportunity. I certainly wouldn't want to see him, or anyone else, starting over Gortat (as you all know).

Lopez has not succeeded. It is time to move on.

Siler plays like garbage in garbage time. His feet are nailed to the ground, and he makes Lopez look like a good finisher. He would lead the league in blocked field goal attempts. A simple eye-ball test tells me his is not an NBA caliber player.

If we move Lopez in the offseason, we'd better not be relying on Siler to be the back-up. I'd like to see us pick-up Lampe. He is a skilled big man putting up solid numbers in Europe. He also has the Polish connection with Gortat.

 

[dziki]

Lampe is not as good as I supposed he will be. But this season in Russia (he is playing in Unics Kazan) he`s playing well. In around 25 minutes (all competitions) he is avaraging around 15 pts / 7 rbs / 1 as / 0.8 bs / 2 pf / 0.8 st / 1 to with more than 50 % 2fgp and around 75 % ft.

Btw. he was drafted by Knicks as 30th player, of course;-) but still he played in Suns

 

[Errntknght]

Absolutely not true.

I don't get this fascination with below-average borderline NBA big men. You guys love them all EXCEPT Robin Lopez. Very strange.

I was being facetious about starting Siler and I haven't seen enough of him to really judge that he is better than Robin was when the latter was getting dribs and drabs of PT. On the other hand Robin did stink it up something fierce then so I can't imagine Siler being much worse. I don't recall you being a staunch supporter of Lopez during that time, though the homer in you would have had you applauding the Suns drafting of him. I did, too, because he was said to be a strong rebounder and defender - I guess what they meant was that he sucked even more on offense because he couldn't rebound for crap.

My point was that many players suddenly play much better when they get a real opportunity in the rotation. In Robin's case that meant being a starter but most players that blossom don't need that much confidence shown in them. I have no idea whether Garret would blossom or not but I don't trust anyone's judgment on that given the tiny amount we've seen him play.

Where I might give Siler an opportunity is in Warrick's slot - its just too painful watching Hakim floundering on defense. Actually I prefer desertdawg's suggestion in another thread - play Robin more and overlap his time with Gortat's when Frye is out, squeezing Hakim out of the rotation.

 

[Mainstreet]

Siler plays like garbage in garbage time. His feet are nailed to the ground, and he makes Lopez look like a good finisher. He would lead the league in blocked field goal attempts. A simple eye-ball test tells me his is not an NBA caliber player.

If we move Lopez in the offseason, we'd better not be relying on Siler to be the back-up. I'd like to see us pick-up Lampe. He is a skilled big man putting up solid numbers in Europe. He also has the Polish connection with Gortat.

You are correct. I'm liking Siler as a 13th project player but he is no way NBA ready. I can buy Lopez backing-up Gortat but unless the Suns want to go back to small ball, Lopez should be one of the Suns two rotation centers. I doubt if Siler will make the Suns roster next season unless he blossoms over the summer. Siler is just not mobile enough to play defense at this time.

 

[sunsfan88]

I wonder if Alvin Gentry was the HC of the Miami Heat, would LBJ, Wade and Bosh come off the bench so that guys like Chalmers, Haslem, & Jones can "get their confidence up", etc by starting.

 

[BC867]

If you were running a manufacturing plant or a distribution center (both of which I have done), would you tell one of your two best employees (the one who inspires his co-workers to give their best efforts) to go sit in the break room while the rest of your permanent staff starts the day working?

And when you finally put him to work, would you tell him to work 40 hours without a break, then take more time off and do it all over again, while everyone else is working reasonable shifts?

And would you be surprised if his production starts to decline?

Ladies and gentlemen. Meet the 2011 Phoenix Suns.

Unless Marcin Gortat is used effectively, we are going to see his performance (and possibly his attitude) decline over the rest of the season.

That's a big risk just to appease Robin, The Boy Wonder and his few points and fewer rebounds while playing alongside Steve Nash.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If you were running a manufacturing plant or a distribution center (both of which I have done), would you tell one of your two best employees (the one who inspires his co-workers to give their best efforts) to go sit in the break room while the rest of your permanent staff starts the day working?

And when you finally put him to work, would you tell him to work 40 hours without a break, then take more time off and do it all over again, while everyone else is working reasonable shifts?

And would you be surprised if his production starts to decline?

Ladies and gentlemen. Meet the 2011 Phoenix Suns.

Unless Marcin Gortat is used effectively, we are going to see his performance (and possibly his attitude) decline over the rest of the season.

That's a big risk just to appease Robin, The Boy Wonder and his few points and fewer rebounds while playing alongside Steve Nash.

BC, you've been on here a long time, and I love to read your posts usually. But this is just getting obsessively weird.

 

[AzStevenCal]

BC, you've been on here a long time, and I love to read your posts usually. But this is just getting obsessively weird.

It has long since crossed a line for me. I hated to put anyone on ignore but it was getting so bad that I was finding it difficult to be civil. When it reaches that point it's time to walk away from the board or block the people involved. Unfortunately, even with the 3 people that are so fully committed to this argument on ignore, you can't fully escape the lunacy because others understandably continue to respond. There is no single issue so important that it warrants beating people over the head with it repeatedly and it goes beyond obsession when they start twisting every conversation in that direction.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Thanks, JC and Steve. I'll try to back off. There is nothing I can do about the rotation.

 

[dziki]

ESPN :

If P-Hammer had been born earlier, he could have stopped Hitler in his tracks and prevented World War II. The guy is that good.

Thank goodness the Berlin Wall came down.