Another Trade Idea

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ok, I got bored tonight and with all the talk of possible trades and what not - I decided to look and see what I could come up with. The best one I could think of is below - and I am not sure how much I like it yet. I will have to think about it for a while. The good news is, I am pretty sure all the other participants would take the deal - just not sure on the Suns. So at least it isn't lopsided.

BTW - normal disclaimer - This is just for fun, don't start flaming because I posted a trade Marion thread. I have made my feelings pretty clear.

Anyways, here it is

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=2412544.

A real gutsy move would be sending Marion to Portland for Miles and the #3 (it would have to be a multi team deal because of the BYC issues. I came up with one possibility though). We could nab Paul at #3, or try to sell it to the Bobcats for #5 and #13. We would cut about 7 million off of payroll from Miles and Marion. Hopefully Miles is kept in check by Q.


Phoenix Sends: Marion
Phoenix Recieves: Miles, #5, #13

Portland Sends: Miles, Van Exel, #3
Portland Recieves: Marion

Charlotte Sends: #5, #13
Charlotte Recieves: #3, Van Exel


Charlotte declines the team option on Van Exel, so no hurt there. They get the #3 by giving up 2 lottery picks - which is being rumored already.

Portland fixes their mistake with Miles by giving up their pick. They get back a much better SF, who is an awesome person and community asset.

Phoenix clears 7 million off of their books instantly. They take a gamble that Q will be able to keep Miles in check. Miles had no attitude issues in LA IIRC. Phoenix also gets the #5 and #13 picks. They would possibly be able to get Deron Williams to back up Nash, and Frye or Ike to back up the middle - in addition to their own pick to be used on a foreign player to keep overseas or another person to add to the big men rotation

I don't know, but it seems pretty balanced to me.

Our depth chart would be:

Nash/Williams/Barbosa
JJ/Jackson/Barbosa
Q/Miles
Amare/#21?
Ike or Frye/Hunter?

Then add in some FA signings and what not, but you get the point. Hmm, I have to think about it.

What does everyone else think?

 

[cly2tw]

I like your idea.
Actually, we might be able to send Jake plus #5 and #13 to Hornets for Magloire using the 7 mil trade exception.

Nash/Barbosa
JJ/Jackson
Q/Miles
Amare/#21?
Magloire/Hunter?

And if we could get Marshall or Evans for the MLE, and find a min. level PG for practise purpose. We'd have a huge team that can do everything and fight everybody!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I like your idea.
Actually, we might be able to send Jake plus #5 and #13 to Hornets for Magloire using the 7 mil trade exception.

Nash/Barbosa
JJ/Jackson
Q/Miles
Amare/#21?
Magloire/Hunter?

And if we could get Marshall or Evans for the MLE, and find a min. level PG for practise purpose. We'd have a huge team that can do everything and fight everybody!

My opinion of Magloire has lowered a lot this season. I am not sure I even want him on this team. I would definitely not send 2 lottery picks for him, as I see Willams and either Ike or Frye helping this team a lot more.

I was thinking that maybe we should keep #3 in case Marvin drops, but that isn't an option either. We need Charlotte to participate so they can take Van Exel in order to get the BYC to work. Just in case anyone else was thinking that.....

 

[HooverDam]

Nash/Williams/Barbosa
JJ/Jackson/Barbosa
Q/Miles
Amare/#21?
Ike or Frye/Hunter?

Well problem w/ this is that you move a guarenteed (more or less) 20 and 10 guy out of the starting 5 and replace him w/ a rookie. Not only does the rookie have to learn the Suns system, but the entire NBA. Can that guy hold up for 82 games? He will obviously hit the rookie wall at some point and be someone who is developing. Do the Suns really want that next year? I think their goal is to win it all, and having a rookie in your starting 5 doesnt usually help that goal.

However, I do like that it would reduce payroll and deepen the team. Im just not ready for any major trades yet, give this group another year. If it doesnt work out, think about trading Q or Marion.

EDIT: Also, you gain a guy w/ questionable character (Miles) and lose a guy who for the most part has been a real team guy on and off the court (Marion). Its not something the Colangelos are likely to do. The Suns would lose their top rebounder and (arguably) their best defender, so I think its too risky.

 

[elindholm]

If the Suns were to trade Marion, I would want them to get proven players in return. Not head cases and draft picks.

I wouldn't even trade Marion straight up for the #1 (if such a thing were possible). There's no clear-cut star in this draft -- Bogut is, so far, the consensus #1 pick more or less by default -- and Marion is at least as good as, say, half of the top-three picks taken over the past ten years. (I don't feel like checking this claim, but it sounds good.)

If I were running the Suns, the only Marion trades I would consider would be those that bring at least one very good player -- meaning someone who is a very good player now, not someone with "upside" -- and at least one solid role player. (I'm leaving the Marion/Richardson/fillers for Garnett fantasy scenario out of the discussion for now.) So that means no packages headlined by Miles, Dalembert, Magloire, or draft picks.

By the way, how's this scenario with Toronto? Marion and the #21 for Marshall (sign-and-trade) plus Bosh and Aaron Williams, who is included to keep Marshall's salary manageable (starting at about $5.8 million). I know Toronto is high on Bosh, but if they're going to lose Marshall for nothing, they face a serious talent shortage, and they are paralyzed by Rose's contract.

The Suns don't need to be ten players deep. Almost no team uses that many players in the postseason anyway. They need two more good players than they have now. And what do they need to save money for? I haven't heard any rumors about where the new luxury tax line might be, but it doesn't look like they're in danger of getting close to it for a while yet. Remember, Stoudemire's extension won't kick in until 2006-07, and the team can assess the financial lay of the land mid-season, so if they have to make a cost-cutting trade, the earliest would be shortly before the 2007 trade deadline.

 

[Chaplin]

By the way, how's this scenario with Toronto? Marion and the #21 for Marshall (sign-and-trade) plus Bosh and Aaron Williams, who is included to keep Marshall's salary manageable (starting at about $5.8 million). I know Toronto is high on Bosh, but if they're going to lose Marshall for nothing, they face a serious talent shortage, and they are paralyzed by Rose's contract.

Chris Bosh is the Raptors Amare Stoudemire, there's no way they're letting him go, especially not for Marion, who is a great complimentary player, but not a superstar to build around.

 

[asudevil83]

i like the first trade. the only thing that would keep me from doing it is the attitude problems with miles. he could be one of those guys who really kills team chemistry.

additionally, having an $8mil guy come off the bench is quite a large sum of money.

i would however be possible to trade Miles/#5/Voskuhl for Magloire, leaving us with both the #13 and Granger. we could then draft Granger with the #13, and Diogu with the #21.

resign Hunter to part of the MLE
sign Jay Williams with the LLE

Nash/Williams/Barbs
JJ/JJax/Barbs
Q/Granger
Amare/Diogu
Magloire/Hunter

we'd have a strong lineup up and down, with a decent bench. and our salary figures are kept in check. after this, their would be no question that we'd match ANY offer for JJ.

 

[elindholm]

Chris Bosh is the Raptors Amare Stoudemire

You certainly might be right, but if so, the Raptors are overrating him. He averaged 17 and 9 last year on 47% shooting. Those are good numbers, especially for someone so young, but hardly earth-shattering. I definitely think he'll be a very good player, and maybe worth more than Marion, but in no way is he comparable to Stoudemire.

 

[tobiazz]

I would never trade talent for depth. Marion is an integral part of our team. That would be a nice trade if we were rebuilding though.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I would never trade talent for depth. Marion is an integral part of our team. That would be a nice trade if we were rebuilding though.

Amen. You've got to get a similar player in return. We are close to a championship. Who knows whether a healthy JJ would have gotten us past the Spurs our not. And the Spurs will beat the Pistons.

Trading a starter and all-star for draft picks and a sub is silly. This is not flaming, its just a factual evaluation of the trade idea.

I would consider Marion for Bosh and more, simply because its fairly clear that Bosh would produce in the this league.

I agree that I would not trade Marion straight up for the #1 pick in this draft.

In fact, I don't see any need to trade Marion. Trade spare parts and picks if necessary. Spend the mid-level. If someone offers the moon for Q, consider it. But that's it.

 

[scotsman13]

this trade ends up being miles for marion and the 5th and 13th picks in the draft. in otherwords a 3rd team all nba team member for miles and 2 pipe dreams. do you really think that anyone we get at 5 or 13 is going to give you 10 boards a game? or be one of best in the nba at steals. do you think that the players we get at 5 or 13 would give us give the suns any real value for 2 years or more? this is the type of trade that would sink a team. the value of this trade is the draft picks which wont show their value for at least 2 years. who knows what we are going to be getting from 31 year old nash in 2 year or 3.

what the suns need to do is resign jj and hunter. lock up amare for the long trem and then find a good young player in the draft and pick up a couple roll players to help out. look for players like jay williams, and ervin johnson, (heck i wouldnt be shocked to see the suns pick up Tskitishvili to see if his old coach can get something out of him) and next year vroman or lampe to bring some of our youth.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I still haven't decided on my feelings on it, but I am surprised by some loud calls against the picks.

We are not talking about taking two prospects with big upside. In my scenario we are talking about taking the 2nd best PG in the draft who could contribute immediately. You talk about Nash breaking down in 2 years, but wouldn't that be postponed by having a stud in Williams behind him?

#13 is more of a crapshoot, but the 2 players I outlined would be able to contribute immediately as well. And yes, I think they would get near 10 boards a game.

 

[JPlay]

Why don't we just trade Marion for Darius Miles, Stromil Swift, Lamar Odom, Ron Mercer or any other player that never lived up to his potential.

 

[coloradosun]

Here again is my annual trade for Ratliff post.

Portland trades

Ratliff
Anderson
#3

Phoenix trades

Q
Marion
Hunter (S&T) 3M contract
#21

I would only do this deal if Marvin Williams some how falls to #3.

Ratliff/Amare
Amare/Williams
JJ1/Anderson
JJ2/Barbosa
Nash/Jay Williams

If Iavoroni gets the Portland job, it could make a deal with Portland more likely. How better to incorporate the Suns offense but to add Phoenix players.

Ratliff just signed a 3 year extension, so he has two years to perform. The third year it could be a great expiring contract to move, if Williams becomes a threat.

 

[JPlay]

Ratliff makes way too much and he's not that good of a rebounder, plus he's the same size as Amare. All he can do is shot block. I wouldn't trade Q for Derek Anderson, Q is way more dangerous as a 3 points shooter and has much more offensive potential.

 

[coloradosun]

Ratliff makes way too much and he's not that good of a rebounder, plus he's the same size as Amare. All he can do is shot block. I wouldn't trade Q for Derek Anderson, Q is way more dangerous as a 3 points shooter and has much more offensive potential.

Would you do it if Marvin Williams was available at #3 is the question.

McDyess and Amare performed well together and they were the same height.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chris Bosh is the Raptors Amare Stoudemire, there's no way they're letting him go, especially not for Marion, who is a great complimentary player, but not a superstar to build around.

omg, this is the first time i've heard you say anything less than 100% homer about marion. i'm proud of you chap! and you're totally right.

 

[fordronken]

I think if you can get Marvin Williams, you have to do it. There's just too much talent there. You've got a pretty bright future with Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams and Amare Stoudemire. However, I'd be very surprised if he lasted until 3.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chris Bosh is the Raptors Amare Stoudemire

You certainly might be right, but if so, the Raptors are overrating him. He averaged 17 and 9 last year on 47% shooting. Those are good numbers, especially for someone so young, but hardly earth-shattering. I definitely think he'll be a very good player, and maybe worth more than Marion, but in no way is he comparable to Stoudemire.

he's as close to stoudemire as they've got and a ways beyond marion in terms of getting his own shot and upside. there's no "maybe" about it, he's worth more than marion, by a shot. besides, his 17 - 9 are in his second year, those numbers aren't that far off from amare's second year.

 

[fordronken]

he's as close to stoudemire as they've got and a ways beyond marion in terms of getting his own shot and upside. there's no "maybe" about it, he's worth more than marion, by a shot. besides, his 17 - 9 are in his second year, those numbers aren't that far off from amare's second year.

The numbers are pretty close, but you have to look at what Amare did the second half of that year. And I just don't see even half the instinct and drive of Amare in Chris Bosh. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him on the Suns, but I'd be pretty nervous if my team was developing him as their cornerstone.

 

[coloradosun]

I think if you can get Marvin Williams, you have to do it. There's just too much talent there. You've got a pretty bright future with Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams and Amare Stoudemire. However, I'd be very surprised if he lasted until 3.

Bogut sounds like a lock to Milwaukee.

If Atlanta does not make a deal, they don't need another frontcourt player, odds are they will take Paul.

Then Williams will be there at three and whoever makes the best offer will get him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Here again is my annual trade for Ratliff post.

Portland trades

Ratliff
Anderson
#3

Phoenix trades

Q
Marion
Hunter (S&T) 3M contract
#21

I would only do this deal if Marvin Williams some how falls to #3.

Ratliff/Amare
Amare/Williams
JJ1/Anderson
JJ2/Barbosa
Nash/Jay Williams

If Iavoroni gets the Portland job, it could make a deal with Portland more likely. How better to incorporate the Suns offense but to add Phoenix players.

Ratliff just signed a 3 year extension, so he has two years to perform. The third year it could be a great expiring contract to move, if Williams becomes a threat.

anderson . . . feech.

ratliff . . . too old w/ injuries . . . feech.

#3 pick is good if it's not the basepoint of the trade. don't want bogut (nor does he fit out style) and am starting to think that cheese's visions of williams as a new tim thomas are a distinct possibility, which leaves paul (of whom i'm enamored and would love to have him learn from nash) which doesn't do THAT much to improve us immediately.

 

[fordronken]

Getting back to Amare vs. Bosh. I forgot how good Amare actually was toward the end of his second season:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/schedule?team=pho&season=2004

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Why don't we just trade Marion for Darius Miles, Stromil Swift, Lamar Odom, Ron Mercer or any other player that never lived up to his potential.

Again, the deal isn't Marion for Miles. I actually don't like Miles. However, he is at his best with a running team - so he could do some things off the bench for us. I am worried to death about the chemistry issue, but I am also worried about Marion.

The deal is to add depth to the team, building more towards the future while maininting a core that could win 55 games.

Is there anyone that wouldn't want Williams to be Nash's understudy? And I know that a lot of people on here like Ike and Frye.


Maybe people misinterpreted my intentions on the thread. I am not looking for a deal to trade Marion away. It isn't like I am trying to push him out of town. However, if we are going to talk about deals involving him - I think that this is one of the most balanced deals that has been presented.

Obtaining a superstar for Marion is the best course, like Eric said, but I don't think it is really possible unless we use both JJ and Marion - which creates a bunch of holes. The other option that seems to be intellegent (when talking about Marion trades) is to add depth while providing financial relief. By taking people that could produce immediately with the picks - the loss of Marion is lessened a lot.

I don't know if I would pull the trigger, a lot depends on how much I think Q could keep Miles from going crazy. I do think Miles would be very solid as a bench player in the Suns system however. Either way, I haven't seen a Marion trade proposal that I like better than this (excluding the Garnett stuff)

 

[elindholm]

The other option that seems to be intellegent (when talking about Marion trades) is to add depth while providing financial relief.

Not to repeat myself, but this really isn't the time to be making trades for financial relief. The team is close now and needs to focus on winning now. When has a team made it deeper into the playoffs by trading away an All-Star for some rookies? I do think that trading Marion is potentially a way to get the team to the next level, but not if his replacement is a bunch of clueless kids.

Also, what's the big panic about the payroll? I don't know if HoopsHype has the buyout for Eisley correct (probably not), but even if you figure in his full salary for 2005-06, plus start Johnson at $8 million, plus add the #21 pick and the MLE, you're still looking at a maximum of under $60 million. That's barely over the median payroll league-wide -- not a bad deal at all for one of the best teams.

(By the way, regarding Eisley's buyout, I'm pretty sure it was all paid this year, right? So even if half of it counts against the cap next season, it doesn't affect the team's bottom line. If the team was in the black this season with the full charge of Eisley's buyout, doesn't that bode well for next year?)