Arizona Cardinals offseason thread 2022

[BritCard]

I really, really do not want Reddick at anything more than $12m. Yes, he racked up some decent stats but he's not a traditional edge rusher.

He's a slightly better Devon Kennard who we signed to the deal we all want out of on the back of a 7 sack season with a crappy Lions team. Reddick is the same players. He's a guy that get's sacks when the QB holds the ball too long or he's up against some slow 2nd string tackle.

He's not, and is never going to be, a guy you can say "Go beat Trent Williams and win the game for us".

 

[Cheesebeef]

I really, really do not want Reddick at anything more than $12m. Yes, he racked up some decent stats but he's not a traditional edge rusher.

He's a slightly better Devon Kennard who we signed to the deal we all want out of on the back of a 7 sack season with a crappy Lions team. Reddick is the same players. He's a guy that get's sacks when the QB holds the ball too long or he's up against some slow 2nd string tackle.

He's not, and is never going to be, a guy you can say "Go beat Trent Williams and win the game for us".

he's "slightly better than Kennard"? sorry. any rational convo ends right there.

 

[Ronin]

I really, really do not want Reddick at anything more than $12m. Yes, he racked up some decent stats but he's not a traditional edge rusher.

He's a slightly better Devon Kennard who we signed to the deal we all want out of on the back of a 7 sack season with a crappy Lions team. Reddick is the same players. He's a guy that get's sacks when the QB holds the ball too long or he's up against some slow 2nd string tackle.

He's not, and is never going to be, a guy you can say "Go beat Trent Williams and win the game for us".

That is true, because we will use Gardecky as a decoy and lineup Reddick on the other side of the line of scrimmage. lol

 

[Jetstream Green]

Twitter says he has no hard feelings and it's all about the Benji's.

I must say, I'm uncomfortable paying Reddick that kind of money. He's not a traditional bang linebacker like CJ. He's more of a SAM in the role that Golden plays.

I know Reddick has numbers but a lot of his sacks aren't high quality. They are blitzes, mop ups and speed. He's not going to beat good tackles with his pass rush moves, because he doesn't have any.

Cool, could you please then give us examples of pass rush moves and hence those he's lacking... or maybe he was moving too fast for you to recognize them

 

[QuebecCard]

Number of reasons. Maybe they didn't feel he could play in 4-3, he was a 1 year wonder, he's not prototypical size for 3-4 OLB. He made a lot of GM's regret doubting him I'm sure. Keim saw what he could do after ARZ misused him his first 3 years at a position he never played in college and let him go. Yeah, Golden is cheaper but ARZ could have resigned Reddick and Golden and had a trio of pass rushers at OLB.

So 'incompetent' Keim agreed with 'competent' GMs that Haason could be a 1-year wonder and that signing him longer-term was a risk he preferred not to take given Cap restrictions going into 2021.

 

[QuebecCard]

But CAR only paid $8.5M for what they got which was a bargain.

Sure. However, that isn't relevant to whether we sign him at twice the cost, which according to some will be the going rate.

 

[phillycard]

What's De'Vondre Campbell's situation? Should have never lost the guy to begin with. Sheeez. I was not happy when we declined to bring him back. The tape doesn't lie, and he was more than effective for us. That's firmly on Keim and VJ in my opinion.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Multi-year deal last year would’ve been prudent.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Could have had him for less than that on a multi year deal last year if we had a competent GM.

Borg

 

[Chopper0080]

he's "slightly better than Kennard"? sorry. any rational convo ends right there.

the bigger issue for me is that he will be 28 when the season starts and is undersized for an edge player. Obviously it comes down to the number but he is a unique fit.

 

[QuebecCard]

What's De'Vondre Campbell's situation? Should have never lost the guy to begin with. Sheeez. I was not happy when we declined to bring him back. The tape doesn't lie, and he was more than effective for us. That's firmly on Keim and VJ in my opinion.

Most here said that his play had gone down considerably in the second half of the season, and I can't remember any serious calls to re-sign him.

 

[overseascardfan]

So 'incompetent' Keim agreed with 'competent' GMs that Haason could be a 1-year wonder and that signing him longer-term was a risk he preferred not to take given Cap restrictions going into 2021.

If you're a GM and you could get a 10+ sack guy for south of $10M would you do it? Even competent GM's make miscalculations, Keim is the king of miscalculation. We get it you're not a fan of Kennard but at least admit he was a free agent steal last year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

the bigger issue for me is that he will be 28 when the season starts and is undersized for an edge player. Obviously it comes down to the number but he is a unique fit.

He fit more than fine two years ago when he was second in the entire league in TFL.

We can’t go into next season starting with Junk Yard Dog and Kennard at OLB’s and expect anything but for them to be running behind every play, like they’re moving in mud.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Bring him in to play ILB

 

[Ronin]

Bring him in to play ILB

or a position he has never played.

 

[BritCard]

he's "slightly better than Kennard"? sorry. any rational convo ends right there.

Well you say that because in the 2 years since Kennard had a 7 sack season and thus overpaid him he has been disappointing. Which is how we will feel about Reddick if we pay him $15m+.

Reddick is better than Kennard was in 2019 for sure but the principle is the same, we would be overpaying him for low quality sacks.

Brandon Thorn has a unique stat called True Sack Rate where he tracks sack quality. Of Reddicks 12 sacks last year only 4 were judged to be high quality. These are plays where he beat the tackle with skill and got to the QB before the QB could get the ball out. 6 were low quality sacks where the QB messed up, held the ball too long, the tackle whiffed, or unblocked etc and 2 were cleanup sacks.

Thats not to say those sacks aren't important, but we already have that guy in Golden who of his 10 sacks only 2 were high quality. But Golden costs a fraction of Reddick.

I think PFF sums it up best. Despite Reddicks sacks (and they actually credit him with 15 last year) he only has a 65 pass rush grade. Markus Golden had a 72 and a better overall grade than Reddick. Chandler Jones had an 89.8 pass rush grade. Reddicks sack numbers are an illusion.

Chandler Jones, despite a poor year, had 8 high quality sacks, 2 low quality and 1 coverage. The problem being is that 5 of those 8 came in game 1.

But if I'm going to pay $17m for an Edge rusher I'd much rather it was Chandler than Reddick. If it's the 4th quarter and you need a sack to close the game out that's far more likely to come from CJ.

They should wait to see what happens with Za'Darius Smith in my opinion. He would be a better option.

 

[BritCard]

Cool, could you please then give us examples of pass rush moves and hence those he's lacking... or maybe he was moving too fast for you to recognize them

This is easy enough to find. Find any Haason Reddick sack of the 23 or so he's had the last 2 years where he beats his guy with anything other than speed.

I'll take anything, even a long arm.

 

[QuebecCard]

If you're a GM and you could get a 10+ sack guy for south of $10M would you do it? Even competent GM's make miscalculations, Keim is the king of miscalculation. We get it you're not a fan of Kennard but at least admit he was a free agent steal last year.

There is no end to the what-ifs.

If we knew what we know today, we'd have picked up Haason's fifth-year option, and then signed him to a longer deal.

Point is, however, there was no one who thought that was a good idea at the time, and even after his breakout season, Haason had his doubters throughout the League.

 

[kerouac9]

Why would he want to come back after the way they treated him in AZ?

Only the money matters to these guys.

Well you say that because in the 2 years since Kennard had a 7 sack season and thus overpaid him he has been disappointing. Which is how we will feel about Reddick if we pay him $15m+.

Reddick is better than Kennard was in 2019 for sure but the principle is the same, we would be overpaying him for low quality sacks.

Brandon Thorn has a unique stat called True Sack Rate where he tracks sack quality. Of Reddicks 12 sacks last year only 4 were judged to be high quality. These are plays where he beat the tackle with skill and got to the QB before the QB could get the ball out. 6 were low quality sacks where the QB messed up, held the ball too long, the tackle whiffed, or unblocked etc and 2 were cleanup sacks.

LOL. That’s not a stat. If you’re judging something qualitatively, it’s not a real metric. Plus, this doesn’t mean anything without the context of other players. How many True Sacks did T.J. Watt have, for example? Markus Golden?

The more objective metric is probably QB hits/knockdowns/pressures per sack. If someone is cashing in a high percentage of their opportunities it’s probably sus that they’ll be able to do that again.

I think PFF sums it up best. Despite Reddicks sacks (and they actually credit him with 15 last year) he only has a 65 pass rush grade. Markus Golden had a 72 and a better overall grade than Reddick. Chandler Jones had an 89.8 pass rush grade. Reddicks sack numbers are an illusion.

Chandler Jones, despite a poor year, had 8 high quality sacks, 2 low quality and 1 coverage. The problem being is that 5 of those 8 came in game 1.

But if I'm going to pay $17m for an Edge rusher I'd much rather it was Chandler than Reddick. If it's the 4th quarter and you need a sack to close the game out that's far more likely to come from CJ.

They should wait to see what happens with Za'Darius Smith in my opinion. He would be a better option.

Yeah prolly not.

 

[BritCard]

Only the money matters to these guys.

LOL. That’s not a stat. If you’re judging something qualitatively, it’s not a real metric. Plus, this doesn’t mean anything without the context of other players. How many True Sacks did T.J. Watt have, for example? Markus Golden?

The more objective metric is probably QB hits/knockdowns/pressures per sack. If someone is cashing in a high percentage of their opportunities it’s probably sus that they’ll be able to do that again.


Yeah prolly not.

That's crap.

We all know that a sack isn't a sack the same way all burgers aren't the same. You have your Five Guys, and you have your McDonalds.

You want at least one of your edge rushers to be a Five Guys. You don't want 2 McDonalds.

Reddick is a good player. But he's a Big Mac at best. He's not worth anywhere near $17m.

But if you want some actual stats here you go.

QB Hurries

Reddick - 14
Jones - 8

QB Hits

Reddick - 5
Jones - 17

Pressures

Reddick - 33
Jones - 36

Chandler played 1 less game but had more pressures and far more hits. Reddick had better Hurries because he is quicker for sure and if he can beat the tackle for speed hes good. But if he can't he has nothing else. Good tackles like Trent Williams would eat him alive. Even Whitworth and Brown with their experience would handle him.

Good player. Not worth primo pass rusher money.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Jones says cardinals didnt use hom correctly..looking for a scheme that maximizes ability...Sounds like Reddick
That’s all Vance Joseph…

 

[Stout]

Jones says cardinals didnt use hom correctly..looking for a scheme that maximizes ability...Sounds like Reddick
That’s all Vance Joseph…

He's just mad that he sucks against the run lol

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Apparently, the rumors are the rams are going after chandler Jones and Bobby Wagner.

 

[PACardsFan]

Apparently, the rumors are the rams are going after chandler Jones and Bobby Wagner.

Also hearing CJ to Broncos.

 

[PACardsFan]

He's just mad that he sucks against the run lol

Agree 100%. I think he's capable of being better against the run, but not in his heart to actually want to be. Big difference.