Arizona's #1 Problem: Dennis Green

LVCARDFREAK

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Walt the thing that bothers me is the fact that you selectivly choose who you dont like coaching. We get it that you dont like Green and Rowen but you do like Clancy?

"Don't blame Clancy Pendergast for the strategy...and don't blame him for the fact that he has to try to devise unorthodox startegies to try to compensate forn the lack of talent he has in the middle of this defense. Pendergast has tried everything he could under the circumstances...and he is the only coach on the staff who has shown any clue as to how to try to adjust to weaknesses...which is why, Clancy Pendergast will be fired by Dennis Green and made a scapegoat. Green will cite philosophical differences as he did with Bob Wylie the exiled o-line coach"

I mean come on. I have read many times from you that this team is stockpiling talent on the defensive side of the ball. That there is plenty of speedy young talent on this team yet you choose to vilify some coaches and praise another. You say the defense quit yesterday yet you dont blame Clancy, you blame Green?

Facts are facts. Clancy could not stop the run last year and it has gotten worse this year. His schemes seem confusing to the players who are habitually out of position and show no discipline what so ever. Then to top things off he starts playing a 46 defense with no bulk in the middle and no run stuffing MLB? How could anyone think that old tired defense would not be run on? Holmgren was chomping at the bit.....

Now I know I have been on Clancy the last few weeks but honestly I dont think he needs to go. Nor do I think Green or Rowen should be let go. You really expect the WORST team in proffessional sports to be turned around in a season and a half? How will firing Green and all his guys make things better? Hell lets hire and fire a coach a year, amybe that will work...

If memeory serves me correct didnt you want Norv Turner in here as coach? How is that working out for Oakland? :roll:
 

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swd1974 said:
Green shows no emotion on the sideline so he must be cut.

Bill Belichek must be fired too. He has the same style. Coaches during the week, stays back during the games. They must both suck simply because they let the assistants run the game. :sarcasm:

Another
 

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LVCARDFREAK said:
Walt the thing that bothers me is the fact that you selectivly choose who you dont like coaching. We get it that you dont like Green and Rowen but you do like Clancy?

"Don't blame Clancy Pendergast for the strategy...and don't blame him for the fact that he has to try to devise unorthodox startegies to try to compensate forn the lack of talent he has in the middle of this defense. Pendergast has tried everything he could under the circumstances...and he is the only coach on the staff who has shown any clue as to how to try to adjust to weaknesses...which is why, Clancy Pendergast will be fired by Dennis Green and made a scapegoat. Green will cite philosophical differences as he did with Bob Wylie the exiled o-line coach"

I mean come on. I have read many times from you that this team is stockpiling talent on the defensive side of the ball. That there is plenty of speedy young talent on this team yet you choose to vilify some coaches and praise another. You say the defense quit yesterday yet you dont blame Clancy, you blame Green?

Facts are facts. Clancy could not stop the run last year and it has gotten worse this year. His schemes seem confusing to the players who are habitually out of position and show no discipline what so ever. Then to top things off he starts playing a 46 defense with no bulk in the middle and no run stuffing MLB? How could anyone think that old tired defense would not be run on? Holmgren was chomping at the bit.....

Now I know I have been on Clancy the last few weeks but honestly I dont think he needs to go. Nor do I think Green or Rowen should be let go. You really expect the WORST team in proffessional sports to be turned around in a season and a half? How will firing Green and all his guys make things better? Hell lets hire and fire a coach a year, amybe that will work...

If memeory serves me correct didnt you want Norv Turner in here as coach? How is that working out for Oakland? :roll:

Whoa there john. is it Clancy that cant stop the run? Or is it Clancy being handcuffed with poor personnel due to Green making bad personnel moves?
 

ajcardfan

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As for Green, the team stinks this year, so he stinks too. Yet again, he was blaming himself today, so I agree with him. But, how can we be sure he's "Arizona's #1 Problem" when this team has been a brutal failure under every single head coach we've had here? It seems that the players and coaches are almost irrelevant based on the data we have.
 

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ajcardfan said:
As for Green, the team stinks this year, so he stinks too. Yet again, he was blaming himself today, so I agree with him. But, how can we be sure he's "Arizona's #1 Problem" when this team has been a brutal failure under every single head coach we've had here? It seems that the players and coaches are almost irrelevant based on the data we have.

I would say true in most cases. But Green has been given the power with personel and coaching that almost no other coach has ever been given.

So he has to shoulder the brunt of the blame. Look at my dispelling the myth thread. This team is every bit as bad as a mac team if not worse.
 

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Shane H said:
I agree. However there are many people on here that dont speak their mind because they dont want people jumping down their throats.

Its obvious many peole have their panties in a bunch over walts thread. Just look at some of the drivel posted in response to it. Can you not see that aj?

Oh, I see it. And, I gave you my opinion of the threads and the posts.
 

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Shane H said:
Whoa there john. is it Clancy that cant stop the run? Or is it Clancy being handcuffed with poor personnel due to Green making bad personnel moves?


How can you say there is no talent on this defense? I dont think Clancy is getting the most out of this talent, but there is some talent there. Dansby, Wilson, Berry, Okeafor, Rolle, Dockett, hell even Macklin has had a good year sans 1 game.

Then look at the belly of this team that Green built in the last coupe of years: You dont think Blackstock, Mitchell, or Green are gonna be solid NFL players at some point? I do.

If we were talking about the oline I would agree that Green has made some moves that have not worked out and he is too blame, but come on this defense is much more talented than to allow Alexander to run at 8 yards a clip....That is all on Clancy IMO
 

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ajcardfan said:
Oh, I see it. And, I gave you my opinion of the threads and the posts.
:thumbup:
 

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Mitch said:
1. For all his ability to spot NFL talent, it's ironic as to how poorly his team in Arizona is being built. Green has touted and projected his team as a playoff contender since he arrived, proclaiming his offense is a Top 5 system...but Green has shown egregiously little understanding of what makes for a Top 5 offense...the following decisions corroborate this notion:

A. Not signing or drafting a franchise QB...in lieu of first hailing Josh McCown as the QB of the future; second by benching McCown on the eve of a rare two game winning streak the night before an away game, thus starting what has become a QB carousel; third by using $4M of cap space to sign an over-the-hill QB veteran who has clearly struggled to stay a starter in the league with two other teams (wouldn't that $4M have been far more wisely spent on the offensive line?).

John Navarre, Green's seventh round draft pick in 2004, is the only QB signed on for next year. Yet, his brief tenure with the team has been a tenuous one...getting a sip of coffee as a starter in the throes of last year's mid-season decline.

Next Year's QB: TBA...but it would be a major surprise if it's any of these three players. Green built a reputation in Minnesota as being able to win with new QBs left and right...but that charm has worn out in Arizona.

Answer: The Cards don't have a chance to become playoff contenders until they have their QB of the future firmly in place.

Best Solution: Getting their hands on a proven young veteran like Drew Brees.

Likely Result: A rookie will be playing QB for the Cardinals next year after the poor choice free agent QB they sign this off-season struggles.

B. Showing no understanding of how to build an decent offensive line. Not only does Green cut the best player without getting anything in return for him or having any respectable depth behind him, Green cuts (re-assigns, yeah right)the veteran offensive line coach and puts the line in the hands of a coach with zero NFL coaching experience.

When asked why he didn't address the weaknesses at both guard spots through free agency, Green quipped, "We like what we have in Reggie Wells and Jeremy Bridges." Did Green even watch the tapes from last year's games? How can he possible believe that either one of these players can solve the running attack woes? Green's eye for NFL talent is obviously more honed to perimeter players.

C. Green saw that last year's OC, Alex Wood, was too inexperienced to be effective...so what does Green do? He hires another coordinator who had never called a play in an NFL game...someone who almost no play-calling experience at any level. Green believes that because Keith Rowen coached in Green's "system" years ago, that Rowen is the most qualified coach for the job.

BTW...doesn anyone still have an idea what Green's offensive "system" is?

The reason why the Cardinals have struggled awfully on offense is Dennis Green. No QB of the future, no offensive guards to propel a running attack and no experience at the OC spot.

For those of you who want to blame Rod Graves for these egregious errors in judgement...get real...Dennis Green has been calling the shots since he arrived. Rod Graves is a token GM...a sycophant to Green. Rod Graves would have held on to Pete Kendall (who is STILL better than any offensive lineman on the team...and was one of the few Cardinal players who had the cajones to get in guy's faces when the team was laying an egg...a guy who's been unjustifyably villified by many of the fans on this board).

D. On defense, Green has implemented "his" slant NT philosophy...yet hasn't signed or drafted a player who is capable of playing it properly. What's all the more comical right now is that the slight Rodd Kolodziej is starting at the position...and getting blown eight yards down the line of scrimmage almost every play...because the guard to his outside has perfect leverage on him and RK doesn't have the strength to hold his groung against that kind of leverage. Heck, he isn't even being taught to take a knee and collapse the block at least, so there isn't a 5 yard wide hole in the middle.

The fact that we as fans have to watch this idiotic strategy being employed by so-called professionals is outrageous. I know it's not working. You know it's not working. The FOX broadcasters know it's not working. Yet, Dennis Green must still think it's working...because there it is game after game.

Don't blame Clancy Pendergast for the strategy...and don't blame him for the fact that he has to try to devise unorthodox startegies to try to compensate forn the lack of talent he has in the middle of this defense. Pendergast has tried everything he could under the circumstances...and he is the only coach on the staff who has shown any clue as to how to try to adjust to weaknesses...which is why, Clancy Pendergast will be fired by Dennis Green and made a scapegoat. Green will cite philosophical differences as he did with Bob Wylie the exiled o-line coach.

In the draft and free agency, Green stockplied perimeter players on defense...Rolle, Green, Blackstock and Mitchell (who is too slight to play MLB). Green hails speed as his m.o. Fine...but speed without bulk up front to occupy the offensive linemen is a moot point, as we are seeing first hand.

Green inherited a talented free safety in Dexter Jackson...who knows what in the world happened with him...yeah, most of you will claim that Jackson was too soft and couldn't take Green's off-season regimen...but...is that really the truth? Why then did Tampa Bay scoop him right back up again? Why then is he a starter for one of the best, hard-nosed DCs in the game, Monte Kiffiin?

In Jackson's place...Green first turns to a decent waiver wire pickup in Ifeanyi Ohalete...but then turnsthis off-season to a long in the tooth strong safety in Robert Griffith, who couldn't get to a deep ball if he was on a motor scooter...and hasn't been all that reliable in open field tackling either. Shrewd move? To make matters worse, he cuts Ifeanyi Ohalete, leaving Griffith absolutlely no competition or reasonale backup.

The middle was weak enough...but to add a SS convert to FS without range and suddenness was a flat-out brain fart.

Add to all these poorly thought out personnel move...the dubious atmosphere he's created for the players...by threatening to cut them all one minute, and doing nothing to coach them up on the sidelines the next...really, what player would really want to play for this guy?

Yesterday, there was more disgust in Mike Holmgren's face when one of his players got called for a penalty, with his team up by 14, than we saw all afternoon in Green's face as his "playoff contender" team was getting its lunch handed to them again.

Green offers no emotion whatsoever to the players...even during the team's best game at Mexico when things were going well, Josh McCown actaully had the temerity to try to talk with Green and Green seemed basically disinterested...and started walking away.

Yesterday, Green's prize ballboy and perhaps most loyal supporter, Larry Fitzgerald, walks off the field with 20 seconds left on the clock. Sure, maybe Fitz had to take a dump...but, either way, Fitz's walking is symbolic. This team has no heart left...none. We saw it quite visibly in the players' faces yesterday...even when BJ caught the TD to make it a game again...token signs of excitement were shown at best...even when Edwards made his spectacular TD catch and run...the look of stoned tuned-out faces awaited Edwards back at the huddle after BJ's bonehead penalty (at least BJ was hustling on the play and was trying to help Edwards out...yeah he should have thought better...but he was hustling...give him props for that at least).

The defesne flat-out QUIT, yesterday. Yes, the Seahawks' line was superior to the Cards'...but watching Kolodziej, Dockett and Moore get blown out play after play...and watching the linebackers tiptoe around blocks and over-run the ball at every chance...and watching one missed tackle after another, was INEXCUSABLE.

Like the FOX announcers said...there are no leaders on this team. Why? Because there's only one ego allowed on this team...and it's Dennis Green's. The players yesterday played the way he coaches...with little to no emotion...just zoned out...disconnected...isolated...removed...on the peripheree, not in the middle of the action...of the play...of the WORK.

Green's two year hiatus from the game made him soft, if he wasn't soft to begin with. He's not the worker that a Dick Vermeil is...he's not a worker that a Tony Dungee is. Green's merely a figurehead...a Bear Bryant (let everyone else do the work), but without one iota of Bear Bryant's charisma. The game has long passed Green by. Yeah, he can still draft good players come April...but that's about all the hard work Arizona is going to get from Green. That's about it. It spoke volumes last year when Alex Wood couldn't call a play to save his life and Green sat back and did nothing. With all his experience? One would think he would at least take over and call asome plays for the players who have to suffer from poor coaching. But, maybe that's a function of merely running the scout team in practice. Yet, one would think he would know his system, wouldn't he?

You see, Dennis Green doesn't really care all that much about the players...heck recently he doesn't even know some of their names...he's been calling LeRon McCoy--LeBron James and Langston Moore--Langston Hughes...and this is NOT a joke.

I feel fully vindicated for my instincts way back two summers ago in the aftermath of the Kendall and Shelton debacles that Green must go. You guys can still villify me if you want...but the facts speak the truth. And if you want to keep making excuses for Green...and if you actually believe the team will be a playoff contender next year...don't waste your time getting all too excited (like you got suckered into this year)...the way this guy coaches (or doesn't coach), combined with the brain farts he makes in games, in hiring staff and in ignoring key areas of the roster...none of this is going to change.

And, worst of all...who is Dennis Green loyal to? The fans? Yeah, right. The media? What a joke! His coaches? He's been hanging CP out to dry lately. His players? You have to be kidding yourself if you think he's loyal to the players...if he was loyal to his players he wouldn't stand there stoic as a staute while his players are getting their proverbial butts kicked.

Dennis Green is loyal to one person only: himself. Period.

You get my vote of support on this post. Green is a flat out fraud as a coach. I will be stupified if the Bidwills do not do something with him before the 5 years are over. How much worse can he make the team? We are about as bad as you can get. I would sure like to hear what the players think but understand their silence.
 

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Rats said:
Walter, you really don't look at everyside when you go about your constant and consistant bashing of Dennis Green. Before Green arrived this team was in a tailspin of no talent. Dennis Green inherited the worst NFL roster from Dave Mac bar none. There was little to no talent on it outside of Wilson on defense and Q on offense. There was a hope that thru there frugal ways that maybe Josh McCown could be the big armed Qb for a cheap price. That has failed. He needs better guys for him to succeed cosistantly. Dennis Green first has had to go about building a talented roster before the workof building a competitive team can begin. I think that Dennis Green did both himself and the fans a diservice by saying we had a playoff team because it was painfully obvious that that was not the case. He overestimated the talent on the roster. Coaches do. There are 250,000 coaches in America...I would rather hear critic from almost any of them even though they do not have your passion for this team, because they are not biased like you have been from day one. Greens problem as many have seen is gameday coaching and delegating it to guys that he thinks can do the job. He does not have the eye for coaching talent that he has for player talent. These guys that are just learning can't seem to adjust on gameday. This Green has tried to fix on the Offense by moving Woods out. I would still like to see how it goes with Rowen. Things may yet come together on that side of the ball. Your Green must Go mantra is old and tired. We needed some credibilty that he brought with him to build a competitive team. It has been 1 and a half seasons. This could not have happened any sooner if Lombardi himself was coaching.

It is not old and tired to those of us who feel the same way.
 

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LVCARDFREAK said:
How can you say there is no talent on this defense? I dont think Clancy is getting the most out of this talent, but there is some talent there. Dansby, Wilson, Berry, Okeafor, Rolle, Dockett, hell even Macklin has had a good year sans 1 game.

Then look at the belly of this team that Green built in the last coupe of years: You dont think Blackstock, Mitchell, or Green are gonna be solid NFL players at some point? I do.

If we were talking about the oline I would agree that Green has made some moves that have not worked out and he is too blame, but come on this defense is much more talented than to allow Alexander to run at 8 yards a clip....That is all on Clancy IMO

I believe there is talent. But Dockett is a poor DT against the run he is to light in the shorts. The other DTs are terrible including Davis who is now hurt. That is the base of a run stopping team. Berry is a great pass rusher but has never been great just adequate vs. the run. Wilsons primary job shouldnt be run support. Dansbys strngth is pass rushing and being able to drop back in coverage.

I see no attempts at giving Clancy the tools he needs to put a succesful run D on the field.
 

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Shane H said:
So he has to shoulder the brunt of the blame. Look at my dispelling the myth thread. This team is every bit as bad as a mac team if not worse.

Well, he has and he will. Channel 12 was comparing him to Ryan, Tobin and McGinnis right now and blasting him.

Green deserves the blame he gets, and the blame he accepts. He can even be fired. But, none of this will make the team win. I don't care if they resurrect Lombardi, I don't believe the next coach is going to be anymore successful than the string of losers that has preceded them. I guess I'm just hoping for a season like '98 again, it's bound to happen. But, even if we win the Super Bowl, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the wheels fall off the very next season.
 

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ajcardfan said:
, even if we win the Super Bowl, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the wheels fall off the very next season.
It would be well worth it though...

With our luck the only Super Bowl we win will probably happen in a stirke year...
 

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LoyaltyisaCurse said:
It would be well worth it though...

With our luck the only Super Bowl we win will probably happen in a stirke year...

Yep, I'd take that one moment of glory over 10 straight playoff seasons without going to the Super Bowl. And, no, with our luck, the strike would cancel the Super Bowl.
 

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ajcardfan said:
Yep, I'd take that one moment of glory over 10 straight playoff seasons without going to the Super Bowl.

I think we all would. :thumbup:
 

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Green the problem?

Ya' right, when he is the one responsible for making the tackle, the catches and reads...ect, then I will blame him. This is not rocket science, he should not be held accountable for crap they should have learned in college.
 

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TheCardFan said:
Green is still here a year later and so are you. You changed your name but lost your credibility.

Lost his credibility? According to whom?

I guarantee you young man, Walt has forgotten more about football than you will ever know. And you can take that to the bank!

:thumbup:
 

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Shane H said:
People are just upset at Mitch because he hasent liked Green from the beginning and has always voiced it loudly without fear of backlash.

Now that he seems to be the one who is right they get their panties in a bunch.

Isn't that the truth. Great, great, post, Mitch.
 

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Lomax15 said:
The more I see of Denny's team and system I am beginning to think that his coordinators were the reason for his success at Minnesota and not him. He had Dungy and Billick who were both good coordinators.

Bingo.
 

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Mitch said:
Dennis Green is loyal to one person only: himself. Period.


Good for you. You found the problem......where is the solution ?

As "bad" as you think Green is, who is going to come take his place ?

Which coach in the past 10 years was more qualified, or better in your opinion ?

Just asking.
:thumbup:
 

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RugbyMuffin said:
Good for you. You found the problem......where is the solution ?

As "bad" as you think Green is, who is going to come take his place ?

Which coach in the past 10 years was more qualified, or better in your opinion ?

Just asking.
:thumbup:

I nominate Jim Fassel. I think I'll start a thread on the subject.
 

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Shane H said:
People are just upset at Mitch because he hasent liked Green from the beginning and has always voiced it loudly without fear of backlash.

Now that he seems to be the one who is right they get their panties in a bunch.


And since we stand by our own opinions, and thoughts, We are are now told our opinions are wrong, that we where panties, and that our ideas suck.

What next Shane? You gonna call us a big poopy pants or big duty dumb dumb heads.

Great for Mitch. It SEEMS he is right and it SEEMS like this team still sucks! Wonderful, I feel better already. :rolleyes:

Shane maybe you should get away from your insults, and instigation. Go back to being insightfullness and voices good points like you normally do.
 

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red desert said:
I nominate Jim Fassel. I think I'll start a thread on the subject.

Good. That is a start. Eventhough I think Jim Fassel is a waste. I would take Bill Billicheck.

:thumbup:
 

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