Ayton's Development at the Quarter Mark of 2018-2019 Season

[Yuma]

I think he's still a work in progress. You seem him getting a bit more agressive. Maybe some shooting woes a bit lately, but overall it seems he IS learning as he goes along.

 

[Chaplin]

People sure are angry about Ayton. We have a lot worse things about this team. Guess he’s passive and an easy target.

 

[1Sun]

People sure are angry about Ayton. We have a lot worse things about this team. Guess he’s passive and an easy target.

He is just the most clear symptom of a far greater problem: The lack of development, and in fact regression, of our young cornerstone players.

 

[BC867]

I love you guys that ignore defense.

Having a Power Forward who can provide skilled big man defense (especially with Ayton having played PF in college) would be appropriate. It is the Suns management who are ignoring defense, not ASFN posters. As if our posts could change the team philosophy.

Is the description of Ayton any different than that of Booker? But no one is advocating we reject DBook because of it.

I don't agree with the all-or-nothing posts. If Ayton is not the greatest all around Center of all time a few months into his pro career, trash him?

If he and Booker are potential greats, benefit from it and cover their weaknesses on defense. It is why I have posted at various times about the importance of balanced teams, a concept which the ownership and constant turnover of General Managers and Head Coaches seem to not favor.

Since its inception, the Suns have been (with very few exceptions) a Guard oriented team. We know that the next time the Suns become a genuine Championship contender will be their first. In the meantime, let's just get the hell of last place and not hope each year that draft picks alone (luck) will take us there.

But now there is already tanking talk AGAIN being posted. With all due respect, guys, I addressed that at the end of last season and was assured by the Chief Tanker that it would not repeat this season.

Unfortunately, all we can do is hope that, somehow, the Front Office stumbles onto a successful plan.


Edit: Since I posted this and went on to read the posts that followed, I see that many of you are saying basically the same thing. 'Good to see!

 

[Bufalay]

He always looks like he’s trying to avoid contact. It’s hard to block shots when you won’t get close to the shooter. He’s also go the Al Jefferson problem on offense where his fear of contact means he rarely draws fouls.

 

[1Sun]

He always looks like he’s trying to avoid contact. It’s hard to block shots when you won’t get close to the shooter. He’s also go the Al Jefferson problem on offense where his fear of contact means he rarely draws fouls.

If you saw him in college, you would know that's not his natural disposition (shying away from contact). Someone is telling him to do that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Having a Power Forward who can provide skilled big man defense (especially with Ayton having played PF in college) would be appropriate. It is the Suns management who are ignoring defense, not ASFN posters. As if our posts could change the team philosophy.

Is the description of Ayton any different than that of Booker? But no one is advocating we reject DBook because of it.

I don't agree with the all-or-nothing posts. If Ayton is not the greatest all around Center of all time a few months into his pro career, trash him?

If he and Booker are potential greats, benefit from it and cover their weaknesses on defense. It is why I have posted at various times about the importance of balanced teams, a concept which the ownership and constant turnover of General Managers and Head Coaches seem to not favor.

Since its inception, the Suns have been (with very few exceptions) a Guard oriented team. We know that the next time the Suns become a genuine Championship contender will be their first. In the meantime, let's just get the hell of last place and not hope each year that draft picks alone (luck) will take us there.

But now there is already tanking talk AGAIN being posted. With all due respect, guys, I addressed that at the end of last season and was assured by the Chief Tanker that it would not repeat this season.

Unfortunately, all we can do is hope that, somehow, the Front Office stumbles onto a successful plan.


Edit: Since I posted this and went on to read the posts that followed, I see that many of you are saying basically the same thing. 'Good to see!

A) who the hell is advocating “rejecting” Ayton???

B) “greatest all center of all time” hyperbole much?

C) who the hell is advocating “trashing” Ayton???

D) neither Poker nor I have raised the spectre of tanking. Someone else bumped my old HOW MY TANK TASTE thread. Can’t control if other people are wanting to tank. Besides even those with eyes for Zion (and I admit to being one) either aren’t advocating tanking for him or are doing so half-heartedly or tongue in cheek.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Referring to the talk earlier in the thread, I don't think Ayton is "soft" (Bender is an example of "soft"). I think Ayton has some bad habits of staying engaged mentally and has some "lazy" habits as well. He isn't afraid of contact or scared to make mistakes, but will sometimes opt for the easy way out.

I think the answer to that might be to cut a few of his minutes and tell him that in order to earn those 5-6 more minutes back he needs to show that he can remain active and engaged on both ends for the entirety of those 26-28 minutes.

Most of the other rookie bigs are playing between 24-28 minutes per game and I think that is beneficial because their conditioning is likely not quite at a high enough level to play hard on both ends for 32+ minutes per game.

 

[sdscard4]

Igor has a great weapon at his disposal and he's only using it 30% of the time. This is the #1 pick he should be the main focus.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Referring to the talk earlier in the thread, I don't think Ayton is "soft" (Bender is an example of "soft"). I think Ayton has some bad habits of staying engaged mentally and has some "lazy" habits as well. He isn't afraid of contact or scared to make mistakes, but will sometimes opt for the easy way out.

I think the answer to that might be to cut a few of his minutes and tell him that in order to earn those 5-6 more minutes back he needs to show that he can remain active and engaged on both ends for the entirety of those 26-28 minutes.

Most of the other rookie bigs are playing between 24-28 minutes per game and I think that is beneficial because their conditioning is likely not quite at a high enough level to play hard on both ends for 32+ minutes per game.

I like this idea. Particularly because Holmes has been such a pleasant surprise while on the court. Giving him more minutes isn’t a bad alternative.

 

[ozzfloyd]

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[CardsSunsDbacks]

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And Griffin wasn't even a "real" rookie. I always feel like being red-shirted for a year (or two in Embiid's case) is beneficial to your rookie numbers (even if it is due to injury). It gives you extra time to study your opponents, and get acclimated to the NBA game from a mental standpoint. I highly doubt either Embiid or Griffin put up nearly as good of numbers had their first season playing also been their first year in the league.

 

[JCSunsfan]

And Griffin wasn't even a "real" rookie. I always feel like being red-shirted for a year (or two in Embiid's case) is beneficial to your rookie numbers (even if it is due to injury). It gives you extra time to study your opponents, and get acclimated to the NBA game from a mental standpoint. I highly doubt either Embiid or Griffin put up nearly as good of numbers had their first season playing also been their first year in the league.

It just allows a player's body and mind to mature. There is a huge difference in maturity between a 19 year old and a 21 year old. I keep trying to keep that in mind. I get frustrated with Ayton because I can see what is possible based upon his size, talent and skill set. But he is also so young. Look at how much Aaron Gordon has improved in the last two years.

I know that I will get frustrated if I expect him to be a defensive force right now.

 

[sunsfan88]

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I feel like some people assume that Kokoskov is telling Ayton to take jumpers and float away from the rim but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Koksokov wants Ayton to be aggressive and see more dunks out of him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

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I feel like some people assume that Kokoskov is telling Ayton to take jumpers and float away from the rim but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Koksokov wants Ayton to be aggressive and see more dunks out of him.

He also is limited in that his point guards have to make the 10 dunks possible.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

He also is limited in that his point guards have to make the 10 dunks possible.

I think part of what Koko is suggesting is that Ayton needs to be more aggressive around the basket as well. There are times that he catches the ball about 10-15 feet from the basket and could absolutely attack off the dribble, but he just doesn't do it. He is athletic enough and has enough skill to do it, but I guess just isn't fully comfortable with it just yet.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think part of what Koko is suggesting is that Ayton needs to be more aggressive around the basket as well. There are times that he catches the ball about 10-15 feet from the basket and could absolutely attack off the dribble, but he just doesn't do it. He is athletic enough and has enough skill to do it, but I guess just isn't fully comfortable with it just yet.

I agree. He is still adjusting. He played more aggressively earlier actually. I think he worries too much about fouls or being made to look bad.

 

[1Sun]

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I feel like some people assume that Kokoskov is telling Ayton to take jumpers and float away from the rim but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Koksokov wants Ayton to be aggressive and see more dunks out of him.

Kind of difficult to dunk when the offensive "system" has you setting screens at the top of the key without rolling immediately to the hoop.

 

[Bufalay]

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I feel like some people assume that Kokoskov is telling Ayton to take jumpers and float away from the rim but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Koksokov wants Ayton to be aggressive and see more dunks out of him.

Who puts cherry on cake?

 

[95pro]

Who puts cherry on cake?

Chocolate cake with powdered sugar and cherries.

Cheesecake too.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I put him in the same category as Josh Rosen. Cannot be judged until supported with competence

 

[elindholm]

Ayton's lack of aggression is concerning. There's no way around that.

I think he'll be fine defensively. I wonder how that statistic is measured. A lot of the time, the player who scores on him is the recipient of an interior pass after some other Suns player has blown a coverage. Ayton isn't good yet at playing one-on-two defense at the rim, and he'll probably get better, but hopefully he'll also be presented with fewer such situations as the rest of the team improves.

His one-on-one defense, when he knows what his assignment is, is unusually good for a very young center.

Offensively, he seems impatient. If he gets the ball and has an obvious, instant scoring opportunity, he's fine, but as soon as he has to consider options, he gets flustered and usually passes out. I think that will get better with confidence. I would like to see him dunk more.

I'd give him a 7 out of 10 to this point, within the range of what reasonable expectations were.

 

[Yuma]

Ayton's lack of aggression is concerning. There's no way around that.

I think he'll be fine defensively. I wonder how that statistic is measured. A lot of the time, the player who scores on him is the recipient of an interior pass after some other Suns player has blown a coverage. Ayton isn't good yet at playing one-on-two defense at the rim, and he'll probably get better, but hopefully he'll also be presented with fewer such situations as the rest of the team improves.

His one-on-one defense, when he knows what his assignment is, is unusually good for a very young center.

Offensively, he seems impatient. If he gets the ball and has an obvious, instant scoring opportunity, he's fine, but as soon as he has to consider options, he gets flustered and usually passes out. I think that will get better with confidence. I would like to see him dunk more.

I'd give him a 7 out of 10 to this point, within the range of what reasonable expectations were.

I don't mean this as a disrespect to Ayton. I agree with everything above. I rate him 5 out of 10 because I think his upside is higher and he's only halfway to his true potential.

Do I think the Suns selected the best player for us at our pick? Hell yes! With all due respect to Alvan Adams, we always as a franchise seemed to be looking for that "franchise center." I believe Ayton is going to grow into that. It's like we are watching Booker in his first year, and are wondering if he can make the jump to one of the top players at his position. Now we see Booker years later and forget he just didn't jump out of the gate to how he is playing now. I think Ayton will be one of the top centers in the league. Ayton already has seen he needs more power, strength, ability to low post better, better defense, etc., from all his comments to fans and reporters. Ayton already looks like he is working on that during the season already. Give him a couple off seasons to work on his body, and watch out!

 

[1Sun]

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I feel like some people assume that Kokoskov is telling Ayton to take jumpers and float away from the rim but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Koksokov wants Ayton to be aggressive and see more dunks out of him.

Actually, your first sentence is likely not all that far from the truth. Remember that Kokoskov's head coaching background is entirely in European basketball, which is entirely a finesse sport, unlike American basketball. My theory is that Kokoskov is trying to turn Ayton into a European center, and it is eroding Ayton's American game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't mean this as a disrespect to Ayton. I agree with everything above. I rate him 5 out of 10 because I think his upside is higher and he's only halfway to his true potential.

Do I think the Suns selected the best player for us at our pick? Hell yes! With all due respect to Alvan Adams, we always as a franchise seemed to be looking for that "franchise center." I believe Ayton is going to grow into that. It's like we are watching Booker in his first year, and are wondering if he can make the jump to one of the top players at his position. Now we see Booker years later and forget he just didn't jump out of the gate to how he is playing now. I think Ayton will be one of the top centers in the league. Ayton already has seen he needs more power, strength, ability to low post better, better defense, etc., from all his comments to fans and reporters. Ayton already looks like he is working on that during the season already. Give him a couple off seasons to work on his body, and watch out!

Didn’t look like he was working anything today except maybe getting sized for a dress.