Barbosa Blames "Flop Artist" Ginobli

[dreamcastrocks]

Manu hurting Barbosa with his antics IS the topic.

I respectfully disagree. But it's a reasonable argument to some extent.

What part do you disagree with, that his flopping is dangerous to the people around him?

 

[Shawty]

Can we get back to the discussion or can I ignore you now?

Both, for all I care. You aren't understanding what anyone else is writing anyway.

Those who don't care, don't respond.

If you don't like my style of post, my apologies. I've done it for years.

My brother dipped chewing tobacco for years because he thought it was cool. Now he has gotten smart, outgrown it, and is embarrassed by it.

Until you experience a similar epiphany, carry on. I won't comment any further.

Ginobili can flop all he wants. Until the league starts punishing it, players can use anything they can to try to get an advantage. But by putting everyone else on the floor at an elevated risk -- beyond what they'd experience against normal NBA opponents -- he is going to make a lot of enemies.

I don't talk about family members. Congrats to ya' bro. However, I won't stop postin' the way I wanna post because you don't like it. I don't think that's fair to either one of us.

In basketball, you make enemies. Bowen has plenty of 'em. he hasn't stopped his style of play either. You act like the guys playin' with some special power or advantage. Like he's the only one playin' with knives on the floor. Basketball is a dangerous sport and just by playin' accordin' to the expectations of you and/or other posters you can still be playin' at an "elevated" risk.

 

[Shawty]

What part do you disagree with, that his flopping is dangerous to the people around him?

That his "flopping" or style of play is somehow sumthin' that has been a risk to other players' careers. That's an overstatement and an emotionally-charged, PHX Suns-colored glasses statement at that. He never garnered any attention until the SPurs started winnin' and he became a star in the league. Now he's like "The NBA Butcher" or sumthin'. Ya' understand? Your analysis was logical just the thoughts of a fan moreso...A Suns fan.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Those who don't care, don't respond.



I don't talk about family members. Congrats to ya' bro. However, I won't stop postin' the way I wanna post because you don't like it. I don't think that's fair to either one of us.

In basketball, you make enemies. Bowen has plenty of 'em. he hasn't stopped his style of play either. You act like the guys playin' with some special power or advantage. Like he's the only one playin' with knives on the floor. Basketball is a dangerous sport and just by playin' accordin' to the expectations of you and/or other posters you can still be playin' at an "elevated" risk.

Now Ignoring the little bickering that you are having.......

Again, everyone knows that this sport is dangerous. The only thing that I can see is that we disagree on that his actions (flopping) is dangerous. Using your example.....
What if you "poke" at the ball against someone with a closed fist. You miss the ball, but hit someone in the chin? What if you successfully stole the ball ten times before hand?

 

[Chaz]

Ginobili's practice of throwing himslf on the floor is ill-advised and dangerous. That is the point here. We are talking about this now becasuse it was this very practice that directly caused another player to be injured.

Ya' understand?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That his "flopping" or style of play is somehow sumthin' that has been a risk to other players' careers. That's an overstatement and an emotionally-charged, PHX Suns-colored glasses statement at that. He never garnered any attention until the SPurs started winnin' and he became a star in the league. Now he's like "The NBA Butcher" or sumthin'. Ya' understand? Your analysis was logical just the thoughts of a fan moreso...A Suns fan.

I actually really like Manu's game. His flopping aside, he has to be one of the best steals in Spurs history. His game is great and equally good with both hands. I love when a player can use both hands equally. He does it as good as anyone I know. I can really respect a player that will willingly take less money than he is worth, to keep his team competitive.

I don't think that he is the "NBA Butcher". Again, I don't even think that it was done on purpose.

We will just have to agree to disagree that his flopping is dangerous. If it would have happened to any other player, it obviously wouldn't be talked about it as much, (Suns board), but my feelings would be the same.

 

[Shawty]

Now Ignoring the little bickering that you are having.......

Again, everyone knows that this sport is dangerous. The only thing that I can see is that we disagree on that his actions (flopping) is dangerous. Using your example.....
What if you "poke" at the ball against someone with a closed fist. You miss the ball, but hit someone in the chin? What if you successfully stole the ball ten times before hand?

Kinda'. Many here take "flopping" and apply it to Manu's ENTIRE game. Then they say he's dangerous because he's a "flopper". That's inaccurate and ignorant. You could take something on everyone's game and apply the same rule. You had a more realistic view of things. I disagree that Manu's game or style is dangerous. Just like his decisions at play, sometimes he takes ill-advised risks i.e. dangerous passes, suicicidal drives. He doesn't intentionally hurt people as you said (like Malone) and he's not a dangerous player. That's my point in a nutshell.

 

[Shawty]

Ginobili's practice of throwing himslf on the floor is ill-advised and dangerous. That is the point here. We are talking about this now becasuse it was this very practice that directly caused another player to be injured.

Ya' understand?

Contrary to popular belief, i have understood from jump. I just don't have to agree with everyone's opinion of Manu. SOme I agree with, some I don't.

 

[TheCardFan]

It's guys like Manu that really rile people up. If he is on your team, you love him. If not, you hate him.

I am pretty sure the Suns would love to have him and so would every sensible Suns fan.

 

[boisesuns]

Contrary to popular belief, i have understood from jump.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Thirdly, no Spur has been injured by his flopping but at least two other players have, if carrrnutt is reporting accurately.

Quite accurately, I assure you.

Nowitzki was coming down with a loose ball when he and San Antonio's Manu Ginobili collided with about 8:03 left. Ginobili's body hit Nowitzki's stiff left leg. Play continued up and down the court before action stopped and trainers came to Nowitzki's aid.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2003/story?id=1558464

BTW, you guys like my new sig?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What part sounds ridiculous? "It's" or "Many".

No, it's the weak attempt at street dialect. There are few things more pathetic than someone trying to pass as "cool" by lamely copying things that they see cool people do. And then to do that over the internet on a message board, well, that takes it to a whole new level.

jesus e, relax. it's his lingo, let him be creative if he wants. i understand arguing with the guy, but beating him up for the way he chooses to communicate? that's pretty weak.

also, everyone, he's not saying manu doesn't flop. in fact, he's freely admitting it. do we have to like it? no. is it effective? unfortunately yes. and until there's a way to get it outta the game, it IS part of the game. we hate gifloppi, but we hate him the same way we hated ainge BEFORE HE BECAME A SUN and then we loved him when he beaned elie in the noggin' with the basketball. just sucks that it resulted in an injury. but say that his flopping targeted leandro, or that it was intentional, or even reckless is kinda dumb. especially coming from suns fans. anyone remember a little player-wrecker named randy livingston? was he flopping? it's a physical sport. people get hurt. let's get over it.

 

[elindholm]

jesus e, relax. it's his lingo, let him be creative if he wants. i understand arguing with the guy, but beating him up for the way he chooses to communicate? that's pretty weak.

All I did was ask him whether he knew how ridiculous it sounded. It's like if someone's fly is open or he has a piece of food stuck between his teeth. The polite thing to do is to let him know so that he can stop looking so silly.

He said it's the way he wants to write, so the matter has been dropped. Mind your own business.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Can we get back to the discussion or can I ignore you now?

Both, for all I care. You aren't understanding what anyone else is writing anyway.

If you don't like my style of post, my apologies. I've done it for years.

My brother dipped chewing tobacco for years because he thought it was cool. Now he has gotten smart, outgrown it, and is embarrassed by it.

Until you experience a similar epiphany, carry on. I won't comment any further.

.

yeah! conform or be called names! no individuality! no personality! CONFORM! CONFORM DAMNIT!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Mind your own business.

lol - "mind your own business" on a public forum. classic.

 

[kaesile]

If you check the Spurs board, I defend other players who ARE NOT Spurs. I've had defend Nash over Parker many times on a Spur board. NO, I'm not a SPur apologist. That is my squad though since I've been watchin' them as long as I can remember. Iceman used to be my fav player. Any other accusations?

Why would I check out the Spurs board? My statement that you were a Spurs apologist is based on the fact that I see your posts on this Suns board - all of which are in this thread (until the recent couple of posts in the other SA thread), defending Manu Ginobili. Do you not think you're defending Ginobili? An apologist isn't 'apologizing' for anything - he's merely justifying something. This thread is mainly a debate between two sides - those that believe Ginobili is acting irresponsibly by his excessive overexaggeration of contact, and those who disagree. You're on the disagreeing side, and you're presenting issues that try and support that. Since you're doing this by yourself on a Suns board, I call that being an apologist. If I ever went to a Spurs board and started talking about the Suns, I would freely admit to being an apologist. I see nothing offensive about the word.

There are many times that players DON'T know who's around them. Have you ever played the game? It's one of the fastest movin' games in the world and things come at you quickly. Many players hurt anutha' without realizin'. Not once did you hear me say that Barbosa has NO RIGHT to be angry but he should know that things like that will happen on a basketball court. It's not like Manu took a bat to his dome.

I fail to see why you had to "accuse" me of never playing the game. In fact, I frequently play basketball, of all different kinds. You name the type, I've played it, and against people bigger, stronger (and uglier) than me. I am well acquainted with how fast-paced it is - that's why I prefer both watching and playing it over other sports like baseball and football. My point isn't that players never hurt each other without realizing it; it's that doing so is reckless. I said that basketball players SHOULD be aware of what's going around them. If they fail to do so, then bad things happen. I personally have been injured many times because of other people's lack of awareness and my own. It's a part of othe game, but that doesn't mean it's justified.

If he was on your team, you'd luv him. Trust me. Hate him, he's not.

I can't tell if you're talking about a general Suns fan or me specifically. If it's the former, then I'll shrug and agree. However, if you mean me, then no, I would not luv him. I respect his game and his skills, but the fact that he chronically overexaggerates contact makes me dislike him, even if he were to be on the Suns. The NBA players I like are the ones I wouldn't mind playing basketball with in a real game (style-wise, not skill-wise). That means if I were playing ball with a guy who had a game like Ginobili, I wouldn't want to keep playing with him, even if he were on my same team. That's a personal opinion.

Look, I can see where you're coming from. I've had this kind of debate many times with a friend of mine who's a Spurs fan. Other than my original first paragraph in my first post (and the rebuttals in this post), the rest of my comments were not directed at you. They're comments on the subject in general. In a nutshell, I think Barbosa's injury was ridiculous because Ginobili made an unnecessary flop against contact from a totally different player. And, that Ginobili should be more careful in his flopping because it's become something reckless. Any time your actions injure another player, and it's something that can be prevented, that's reckless. It can still be an accident, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

This one has the makings of a good thread...

who's throwing the next stone, ouchie? homeslice? elindholm?

 

[elindholm]

who's throwing the next stone, ouchie? homeslice? elindholm?

No, not me. I was just instructed not to criticize the way someone writes, by a morally superior poster who was ... uh ... criticizing the way I write. That has brought the entire conversation to a level of absurdity that I can't keep up with.

 

[Errntknght]

Shawty, "That's just flat-out ridiculous. Everyone else posts serious type stuff and you come with trash. Pop is NOT Buddy Ryan. He's never made a "hit" on someone. Get real! That's just stupid. And why don't you look at the tape from the 2003 WCF. I have it on tape. THAT WAS CLEARLY INCIDENTAL CONTACT. Next..."

Wow, I must have really hit a nerve - no attempt to refute anything I said and you even got so rattled you forgot your 'street' lingo.

Call me when your boy hurts one of his own teammates - then I'll believe that he can't control who he hits when he throws himself around. If he can then, by definition, it's intentional when he hits opponents which makes any resulting injury intentional.

I sure don't buy that Pops would allow a loose cannon on the floor that might injure his other players - thats an insult to his intelligence.

 

[Drop D]

I was just instructed not to criticize the way someone writes,

Eric: Do you find your signature ironic in this case: The American exploded: "Vos who sos to say to me what I must do.

Boy, that sums up what this thread is now about. Just struck me as funny.

Carry on.

P.S. By the way, I have the game on tape. I have not watched the whole play yet. My understanding is that the half was over. I haven't seen that discussed much. If true, maybe Manu needs to work on time awareness as well as space awareness. Seems like a high risk, low reward play. To himself as well as others.

 

[jibikao]

Simple solution. NBA players should send each other emails (not to Spurs) and ask the big guys or bench players to draw SERIOUS FRAGANT fouls on Manu. Give him a GOOD slap on the face when he drives in. I mean what's the worst it can happen? I am pretty sure Manu is hated among NBA players. I know Denver hates him and probably so is Mavs since Manu kneed Dirk in WCF that year and Dirk missed the last 4-5 games.

I think Manu is a good player but somebody just needs to SLAP him good. Bench players shall do it.

That's just my suggestion. Send him to injury room and see what other players are going through.

 

[Shawty]

Quite accurately, I assure you.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2003/story?id=1558464

BTW, you guys like my new sig?

Once again. I have that tape. It's easy to pick out an article and try to use it as a basis for argument. In this case, it's not effective. I HAVE THAT PLAY ON TAPE...(DVD RATHER). If you would examine the tape, you would clearly see that this play was COMPLETELY incidental and vastly different than Barbosa's case. It's unfair to try and use that against Manu because it was not a play where he "flopped", "flailed", "overexaggerated" or even fell. Please review the tape before you use this play to justify sumthin'. It makes you sound like a bitter Mavs fan.

 

[Shawty]

jesus e, relax. it's his lingo, let him be creative if he wants. i understand arguing with the guy, but beating him up for the way he chooses to communicate? that's pretty weak.

also, everyone, he's not saying manu doesn't flop. in fact, he's freely admitting it. do we have to like it? no. is it effective? unfortunately yes. and until there's a way to get it outta the game, it IS part of the game. we hate gifloppi, but we hate him the same way we hated ainge BEFORE HE BECAME A SUN and then we loved him when he beaned elie in the noggin' with the basketball. just sucks that it resulted in an injury. but say that his flopping targeted leandro, or that it was intentional, or even reckless is kinda dumb. especially coming from suns fans. anyone remember a little player-wrecker named randy livingston? was he flopping? it's a physical sport. people get hurt. let's get over it.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

 

[Shawty]

Why would I check out the Spurs board? My statement that you were a Spurs apologist is based on the fact that I see your posts on this Suns board - all of which are in this thread (until the recent couple of posts in the other SA thread), defending Manu Ginobili. Do you not think you're defending Ginobili? An apologist isn't 'apologizing' for anything - he's merely justifying something. This thread is mainly a debate between two sides - those that believe Ginobili is acting irresponsibly by his excessive overexaggeration of contact, and those who disagree. You're on the disagreeing side, and you're presenting issues that try and support that. Since you're doing this by yourself on a Suns board, I call that being an apologist. If I ever went to a Spurs board and started talking about the Suns, I would freely admit to being an apologist. I see nothing offensive about the word.

I said IF you checked. I understand now. And actually, i'd been lurkin' for a while. I was even here durin' the WCFs last season. Just decided not to post.

I fail to see why you had to "accuse" me of never playing the game. In fact, I frequently play basketball, of all different kinds. You name the type, I've played it, and against people bigger, stronger (and uglier) than me. I am well acquainted with how fast-paced it is - that's why I prefer both watching and playing it over other sports like baseball and football. My point isn't that players never hurt each other without realizing it; it's that doing so is reckless. I said that basketball players SHOULD be aware of what's going around them. If they fail to do so, then bad things happen. I personally have been injured many times because of other people's lack of awareness and my own. It's a part of othe game, but that doesn't mean it's justified.

Actually, I didn't accuse. I inquired. All players have to know where they are on the court- true. But does it happen ALL THE TIME. Theoretically, that would be great. In reality, it doesn't happen 100% of the time. Once again the game moves fast. You should always know where you are in relation to defensive and offensive sets but you won't always know who's behind you. That's why many people get hurt in this sport.

I can't tell if you're talking about a general Suns fan or me specifically. If it's the former, then I'll shrug and agree. However, if you mean me, then no, I would not luv him. I respect his game and his skills, but the fact that he chronically overexaggerates contact makes me dislike him, even if he were to be on the Suns. The NBA players I like are the ones I wouldn't mind playing basketball with in a real game (style-wise, not skill-wise). That means if I were playing ball with a guy who had a game like Ginobili, I wouldn't want to keep playing with him, even if he were on my same team. That's a personal opinion.

If you watched Spur ball more often, you would see that Manu is a VERY unselfish player. He NEVER takes a possession or defensive stand off. NEVER takes a night off. He's clever, crafty and has a knack for makin' the impossible- that includes pinpoint passes. You would LUV to play with someone like him and you would luv to have him wear a Suns jersey. Trust me.

Look, I can see where you're coming from. I've had this kind of debate many times with a friend of mine who's a Spurs fan. Other than my original first paragraph in my first post (and the rebuttals in this post), the rest of my comments were not directed at you. They're comments on the subject in general. In a nutshell, I think Barbosa's injury was ridiculous because Ginobili made an unnecessary flop against contact from a totally different player. And, that Ginobili should be more careful in his flopping because it's become something reckless. Any time your actions injure another player, and it's something that can be prevented, that's reckless. It can still be an accident, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

I'm not tryin' to convince you that Barbs injury was not "ridiculous". You're a fan and there's no way I could change your mind. I respect that. However, I still disagree with your assessment of Manu's game and technique. It's NOT dangerous and it's well within the rules of the game. I am sad that Barbosa was injured playin' this sport. I cringed when I saw him fall and I'm not a Suns fan but I've been hurt on the court before.

 

[Shawty]

Wow, I must have really hit a nerve - no attempt to refute anything I said and you even got so rattled you forgot your 'street' lingo.

Call me when your boy hurts one of his own teammates - then I'll believe that he can't control who he hits when he throws himself around. If he can then, by definition, it's intentional when he hits opponents which makes any resulting injury intentional.

I sure don't buy that Pops would allow a loose cannon on the floor that might injure his other players - thats an insult to his intelligence.

Nice try. You did hit a nerve. Insinuatin' that one of the nicest, most heartfelt coaches in the game would put a "hit" out on anutha' player is the most asinine charge I've heard since I've been here. Almost. Also if Pop was puttin' a hit out on the Suns roster, WHY WOULD HE INJURE BARBOSA? What has Barbosa done in his career that merits Pop puttin' a hit out on him? Puhleeeze. Wouldn't he target Nash? Marion? Your reasoning on the matter is pretty juvenile I might add.

P.S.- My lingo isn't street. I'm perfectly fine in expresin' myself. Hopefully, you can keep up.