Beware the 4th Win

[SoonerLou]

Monti took the easy way out. He knew his goal wasn't to win football games. He was leery of having a talented vet like Hopkins in that environment. instead of trying to navigate those waters to try to acquire a mid round pick from a contender, he felt it was easier to just cut him. It is what it is. I feel like Monti has had a C to D first year as a GM. It is going to be up to him to change that and quickly.

You're grading too tough, but the Hopkins move specifically was a F.

Chiefs might have been desperate enough to give us a solid pick at the deadline.

I actually hope Monti wasnt trying to win games. Instead of trying to be Titans 2.0 or current Patriots of being outdated in roster management.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Watching a guy like Hop operate last night and comparing him to a guy like Hollywood is quite the contrast. One guy wants the ball and gets it, the other tries but can't get it done.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

And with this week's results, this thread just became somewhat irrelevant… Patriots, Jets, Giants and Titans all win.

4th win Will now move us to 4th overall.

I assume Panthers Will remain at #1. #2-4 is a battle between Patriots, Cardinals and Commanders.

Patriots have Jets, Texans, Packers and Titans. All winnable

Cardinals have 49ers, Bears, Eagles and Seahawks. 1,5 winnable game.

Commanders have Rams, Jets, 49ers and Cowboys. 1 winnable game.

Given How the Patriots played against the Steelers I Actually Think #2 overall is more likely than #4 overall.

#2 would be considerably better than 3. Really hoping we can get #2.

 

[DVontel]

Chiefs might have been desperate enough to give us a solid pick at the deadline

If they didn't to do with the Titans then I kind of doubt they would have done it with us.

 

[SoonerLou]

Cutting Hopkins saved us $8 million in cap space this year (which will roll over) and $25 million next year. Plus there were rumors that he wanted out, and rumors that Bidwill demanded Monti get rid of him after Hopkin sat out games while healthy last year.

If we had Hopkins we would probably have 2 or 3 more wins and a draft pick around #14. Without Hopkins we have what should be a top 5 draft pick and $33 million extra cap space to use on a player that is a lot younger.

Its on Monti to get it right at WR though. If we dont get MHJ anyway and our Wr group looks similar we run the risk of cementing ourselves as 4th in the division next year.

Cause its clear Kyler needs a #1 WR.

 

[SoonerLou]

If they didn't to do with the Titans then I kind of doubt they would have done it with us.

Will Levis threw 4 tds/3 to Hopkins before the deadline. They decided to keep him to help their young QB.

They were ready to shop him before Tannehill got hurt.

 

[DVontel]

Cause its clear Kyler needs a #1 WR.

I know I'm looking too much into this because of the bold, but outside of Mahomes, this is every QB in the league.

 

[DVontel]

Will Levis threw 4 tds/3 to Hopkins before the deadline. They decided to keep him to help their young QB.

They were ready to shop him before Tannehill got hurt.

With Dobbs throwing him the ball, do you truly believe we would have received a mid-round pick for Hop? I honestly believe his value would have been lower during the season than it already was in the offseason.

 

[DVontel]

Monti gets an A- from me his first year.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Also remember that coaches have made specific moves in games that help evaluate players in games rather than actually win games. See Kyler against the Rams.

Kyler sucks vs the Rams most games.

 

[kerouac9]

Monti gets an A- from me his first year.

I don't really understand how you can give him anything but an incomplete. If his goal was to roll over assets for a successful 2024, you don't know if those investments are paid off.

Right now he turned the 3rd overall pick in the 2023 draft into a B+ right tackle and the 16th pick in the 2024 draft. He built the 26th-ranked offense and 30th-ranked defense in the NFL.

Even if you believe it's all worth it if we end up with a top pick in the 2024 draft, we haven't clinched that yet, either.

 

[Dback Jon]

I know I'm looking too much into this because of the bold, but outside of Mahomes, this is every QB in the league.

Even Mahomes needs a #1

 

[DVontel]

I don't really understand how you can give him anything but an incomplete. If his goal was to roll over assets for a successful 2024, you don't know if those investments are paid off.

Right now he turned the 3rd overall pick in the 2023 draft into a B+ right tackle and the 16th pick in the 2024 draft. He built the 26th-ranked offense and 30th-ranked defense in the NFL.

Even if you believe it's all worth it if we end up with a top pick in the 2024 draft, we haven't clinched that yet, either.

To keep short and sweet:

Acknowledging that this team has been destined for a rebuild and didn't put Band-Aids on torn Achillies like Keim did for so many years. No overpaying for washed up has-beens. Not insulting my intelligence pretty much. I admire that.

Also, I don't see why you dislike me grading Monti already, but had no problem with Chop doing it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Even Mahomes needs a #1

Really? He won a Super Bowl without one last year while being league MVP.

What he actually needs is anyone barely competent at WR. He doesn’t have even one of those this year and he STILL has the team within a game of HFA through the playoffs.

 

[Harry]

Still hearing from well placed people the Feeling is Monti will trade down and take an OT.

 

[TheCardFan]

Really? He won a Super Bowl without one last year while being league MVP.

What he actually needs is anyone barely competent at WR. He doesn’t have even one of those this year and he STILL has the team within a game of HFA through the playoffs.

You can't expect him do that all the time tho...that is the problem.

Not giving him a true #1 WR is wrong and it will probably cost the Chiefs a SB this year.

 

[kerouac9]

To keep short and sweet:

Acknowledging that this team has been destined for a rebuild and didn't put Band-Aids on torn Achillies like Keim did for so many years. No overpaying for washed up has-beens. Not insulting my intelligence pretty much. I admire that.

Also, I don't see why you dislike me grading Monti already, but had no problem with Chop doing it.

Chop's evaluating Monti on his own terms. At least according to Michael Bidwill:

"I was struck during his interview," Bidwill said, "(Ossenfort) said everything in the football operation is going to be geared toward and aimed at winning football games, and that's speaking my language and that's speaking the language of our fans."

If you feel great about the Cards not getting anything for Hop, losing draft positioning for tampering when they were the only team with a head coach opening, and having to start a QB opening day who had been with the team for 13 days, do you.

It's hard to look at a position group on this team that will be better leaving 2023 than it was entering it. It's freaking easy to tear down; it's really hard to build back better.

 

[TheCardFan]

Don't forget that Hopkins is on record saying teams wouldn't call him back when he was a free agent (with no trade compensation).

The rest of what Monti should have done (trade wise) is pure speculation.

 

[DVontel]

If you feel great about the Cards not getting anything for Hop, losing draft positioning for tampering when they were the only team with a head coach opening, and having to start a QB opening day who had been with the team for 13 days, do you.

I feel awesome. I feel great that Monti drafted players that play impactful positions, I feel great that Monti has gotten rid of Keim's players like Simmons and Josh Jones. To a lesser degree, Byron Murphy. Only one that still upsets me a bit is not signing Zach to a new deal. He didn't try to fix torn ACLs with alcohol like you want him to.

K9, I like you and appreciate you, but as much as you despise Steve Keim, you think very similar to him. You're not the only one, though.

 

[kerouac9]

Don't forget that Hopkins is on record saying teams wouldn't call him back when he was a free agent (with no trade compensation).

The rest of what Monti should have done (trade wise) is pure speculation.

That's a timing thing more than anything else. Hard to command top money once everyone's spent their FA dollars and structured their cap to accommodate the year's payroll.

 

[Dback Jon]

To keep short and sweet:

Acknowledging that this team has been destined for a rebuild and didn't put Band-Aids on torn Achillies like Keim did for so many years. No overpaying for washed up has-beens. Not insulting my intelligence pretty much. I admire that.

Also, I don't see why you dislike me grading Monti already, but had no problem with Chop doing it.

Correct.

Either everyone gets scolded for not giving him an incomplete, which is the fair grade at this point, or no one should

 

[TheCardFan]

That's a timing thing more than anything else. Hard to command top money once everyone's spent their FA dollars and structured their cap to accommodate the year's payroll.

I hear you but he was available by trade when they had money.

Bottom line - I am shocked Hopkins didn't get traded for something but to say it was a Monti blunder is speculation.

 

[kerouac9]

I feel awesome. I feel great that Monti drafted players that play impactful positions, I feel great that Monti has gotten rid of Keim's players like Simmons and Josh Jones. To a lesser degree, Byron Murphy. Only one that still upsets me a bit is not signing Zach to a new deal. He didn't try to fix torn ACLs with alcohol like you want him to.

K9, I like you and appreciate you, but as much as you despise Steve Keim, you think very similar to him. You're not the only one, though.

You don't know how I think. Get over yourself.

Simmons and Josh Jones would've been out of here next season, anyway. I haven't formed conclusions about Monti's draft picks because it's too early. This time in Marco Wilson's rookie season we were stoked by how we got a starting corner in the fourth round.

I get the moves Monti made, and why. But they have to pay off. Giving him credit for a demolition without rebuilding anything makes no sense to me. The idea was sound, the execution this far has only been slightly less embarrassing than our owner.

 

[kerouac9]

I hear you but he was available by trade when they had money.

Bottom line - I am shocked Hopkins didn't get traded for something but to say it was a Monti blunder is speculation.

Was he tho?

 

[DVontel]

You don't know how I think. Get over yourself.

You're right, but it's been really difficult to argue otherwise with the statements I've seen you make regarding Monti's decisions since the offseason.

Simmons and Josh Jones would've been out of here next season, anyway.

Sure, but that didn't stop you from slandering the choice of trading them for picks anyway.

the execution this far has only been slightly less embarrassing

This is where we disagree and a reason I made the first statement above in this post.