Beware the 4th Win

[MadCardDisease]

Which is why I have said in multiple posts, Monti's primary goal this season was not to win games and the moves he made reflected that. Winning was secondary and less important to him. It was ok to lose games in service of his rebuild plan.

Yeah I just can't see Monti coming into this season and saying "What can we do to not win games? It's my ultimate goal!"

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah I just can't see Monti coming into this season and saying "What can we do to not win games? It's my ultimate goal!"

Let me ask you this... when Monti decided that Corpse McCoy... a QB who was ATROCIOUS last year, beyond injured, ancient and never even close to even being a mediocre starting QB... was going to start half of the season and not bother to sign a stop gap QB for the entire off-season up until after the last pre-season game (during an off-season where there were MANY solid stop-gap QBs on the open market who have had success this season), do you think he was saying "Winning is my ultimate goal this season!"

Note... I'm asking you a question and not distorting your opinion/putting words into your mouth here. I'd appreciate if you could respond the same.

 

[football karma]

Winning was secondary and less important to him [Monti]. It was ok to lose games in service of his rebuild plan.

i think this is accurate

its not "i will try to lose every game" or even "I am ok with losing every game" --

but rather: to give the team options in the event they need to move on from Kyler in 2024, the roster will really suffer

 

[MadCardDisease]

Let me ask you this... when Monti decided that Corpse McCoy... a QB who was ATROCIOUS last year, beyond injured, ancient and never even close to even being a mediocre starting QB... was going to start half of the season and not bother to sign a stop gap QB for the entire off-season up until after the last pre-season game (during an off-season where there were MANY solid stop-gap QBs on the open market who have had success this season), do you think he was saying "Winning is my ultimate goal this season!"

Note... I'm asking you a question and not distorting your opinion/putting words into your mouth here. I'd appreciate if you could respond the same.

I was replying to the comment that "Monti's primary goal this season was not to win games" which I do not agree with at all.

I've already mentioned what I felt Monti's primary goals were for this season but I will list them again:

*Changing the culture/Righting the ship - IMO the most important thing for Monti to accomplish this season. The dysfunction of the Keim era the last few years is a stain on this franchise.

*Moving on from the long list of Keim's players who didn't fit (This included McCoy)

*Building through the Draft

*Figuring out which players fit the new culture and trajectory of this team

*Identifying if Kyler Murray can be you Franchise QB

*Winning a Super Bowl as a long term goal.

*I also believe that Monti told JG to go out and win as many games as possible this season. I'm 99.9999% sure that no where on Monti's notebook of goals did he have "Not to win games this season". IMO the whole tanking for Caleb thing was manufactured by the national talking heads who knew very little about the workings of the new Cardinals front office.

 

[Stout]

Yeah I just can't see Monti coming into this season and saying "What can we do to not win games? It's my ultimate goal!"

Monti's primary goal was not to win games does not equate to "What can we do to not win games?" Very different statements. It seems you want to spin it a certain way. Bottom line: Winning was not prioritized at the FO level this season, for whatever reason.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Monti's primary goal was not to win games does not equate to "What can we do to not win games?" Very different statements. It seems you want to spin it a certain way. Bottom line: Winning was not prioritized at the FO level this season, for whatever reason.

If your primary goal was not to win games then how do you accomplish that? To me you do everything that you can to not win games.

But we got off topic. Are you afraid of the Cardinals winning another game? Are you actively rooting for them to lose out so that they might get a better draft pick?

 

[Yuma]

Which is why I have said in multiple posts, Monti's primary goal this season was not to win games and the moves he made reflected that. Winning was secondary and less important to him. It was ok to lose games in service of his rebuild plan.

But it does circle back to it's about winning games. You do it right, you have a long term sustainable winning team. Not just some team that lives and dies on free agency success.

So it IS about winning. Laying the foundation. They ARE trying to win games. They don't have the overall talent yet, and they need to adapt to the new way of doing things. I feel MORE confident they are FINALLY on the right path.

 

[daves]

Are there really multiple pages of arguments over the distinction between "Ossenfort's primary goal was not 'to win games'" and "Ossenfort's primary goal was 'not to win games'" ?!?

 

[Outerlimits]

Hopkins missed the beginning of the prior season because of his own stupidity. He was absent when Kyler was healthy and games actually mattered.

My guess is His unhappiness towards the end of the horrific season(which his suspension contributed to) pretty much sealed his fate.

Bidwill wasn't going to keep writing the guy a paycheck.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I was replying to the comment that "Monti's primary goal this season was not to win games" which I do not agree with at all.

I've already mentioned what I felt Monti's primary goals were for this season but I will list them again:

*Changing the culture/Righting the ship - IMO the most important thing for Monti to accomplish this season. The dysfunction of the Keim era the last few years is a stain on this franchise.

*Moving on from the long list of Keim's players who didn't fit (This included McCoy)

*Building through the Draft

*Figuring out which players fit the new culture and trajectory of this team

*Identifying if Kyler Murray can be you Franchise QB

*Winning a Super Bowl as a long term goal.

*I also believe that Monti told JG to go out and win as many games as possible this season. I'm 99.9999% sure that no where on Monti's notebook of goals did he have "Not to win games this season". IMO the whole tanking for Caleb thing was manufactured by the national talking heads who knew very little about the workings of the new Cardinals front office.

You’ve still yet to answer the very simple question I’ve asked multiple times. I don’t blame you for not doing so and won’t ask again because your silence speaks volumes.

 

[Stout]

If your primary goal was not to win games then how do you accomplish that? To me you do everything that you can to not win games.

But we got off topic. Are you afraid of the Cardinals winning another game? Are you actively rooting for them to lose out so that they might get a better draft pick?

Off topic? Man, you just can't admit one negative thing about Monti. It seems like you're clinging to semantics pretty hard.

No, I wouldn't be afraid of further wins and I'm not actively rooting against the team. I'd like to keep the number 3 but we'll see what happens.

 

[Stout]

But it does circle back to it's about winning games. You do it right, you have a long term sustainable winning team. Not just some team that lives and dies on free agency success.

So it IS about winning. Laying the foundation. They ARE trying to win games. They don't have the overall talent yet, and they need to adapt to the new way of doing things. I feel MORE confident they are FINALLY on the right path.

Not this season, which is the whole discussion. Well, less a discussion and more that plain facts don't support that Monti was doing all he could to win this season and others are just sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "Nuh uh!"

 

[MadCardDisease]

Off topic? Man, you just can't admit one negative thing about Monti. It seems like you're clinging to semantics pretty hard.

No, I wouldn't be afraid of further wins and I'm not actively rooting against the team. I'd like to keep the number 3 but we'll see what happens.

So here is the thing. As I have mentioned before I have a friend who coaches for the Cardinals. Through him I've had the opportunity to meet a couple of players on this team. I haven't met Monti personally but I've spoke to my friend about him. So when I hear false rumors being spread it kind of hits home and I take it personally.

Last night my wife and I did a bourbon tasting at my friends house and I asked him if all Monti cared about was losing to get a better draft pick. He just laughed and shook his head. He said Monti was pretty down after the Giants loss. However after the Cowboys win Monti's smile was ear to ear all week. He said that Monti could care less about the final draft position if it means more wins for this team. And I felt totally embarrassed for even asking him this question.

 

[gimpy]

Nuh uh, nuh uh!

 

[Stout]

So here is the thing. As I have mentioned before I have a friend who coaches for the Cardinals. Through him I've had the opportunity to meet a couple of players on this team. I haven't met Monti personally but I've spoke to my friend about him. So when I hear false rumors being spread it kind of hits home and I take it personally.

Last night my wife and I did a bourbon tasting at my friends house and I asked him if all Monti cared about was losing to get a better draft pick. He just laughed and shook his head. He said Monti was pretty down after the Giants loss. However after the Cowboys win Monti's smile was ear to ear all week. He said that Monti could care less about the final draft position if it means more wins for this team. And I felt totally embarrassed for even asking him this question.

I think your closeness to the situation is clouding your thinking. We keep saying that winning wasn't his first priority in this offseason, as it clearly wasn't. You keep re-framing it in much, much more negative verbiage that does not reflect even a little bit what anyone is saying. No one thinks "All Monti cares about is losing to get a better draft pick." Why would you even ask them that? Monti simply didn't set out with winning this year as a top priority. I don't think anyone--or at least, very few of us--had a problem with that. The major arguments have come about through the method of rebuilding, or if we did not build enough this past offseason. I think you're taking it personally and not reading what is actually written.

Winning wasn't Monti's top priority this offseason. That this is a fact isn't an indictment on him. It's an indictment of the situation he walked into.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think your closeness to the situation is clouding your thinking. We keep saying that winning wasn't his first priority in this offseason, as it clearly wasn't. You keep re-framing it in much, much more negative verbiage that does not reflect even a little bit what anyone is saying. No one thinks "All Monti cares about is losing to get a better draft pick." Why would you even ask them that? Monti simply didn't set out with winning this year as a top priority. I don't think anyone--or at least, very few of us--had a problem with that. The major arguments have come about through the method of rebuilding, or if we did not build enough this past offseason. I think you're taking it personally and not reading what is actually written.

Winning wasn't Monti's top priority this offseason. That this is a fact isn't an indictment on him. It's an indictment of the situation he walked into.

I have no problem with people saying that winning wasn't his first priority this offseason. I have listed above what I believe were his top priorities and stated that I believe changing the culture was his top priority this season.

What I do have a problem with is saying "Monti's primary goal this season was not to win games". IMO that means a totally different thing.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

These are all reasons to punt on an entire season? I'm not buying that.

You keep saying that they punted on the season, when they very well should have been 3-0. That's not punting any way you slice it.

 

[kerouac9]

I have no problem with people saying that winning wasn't his first priority this offseason. I have listed above what I believe were his top priorities and stated that I believe changing the culture was his top priority this season.

What I do have a problem with is saying "Monti's primary goal this season was not to win games". IMO that means a totally different thing.

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It seems baffling to me that you thought so many posters believed that Monti was prioritizing losing games and not what they plainly stated multiple times: Monti was not prioritizing winning games.

 

[kerouac9]

You keep saying that they punted on the season, when they very well should have been 3-0. That's not punting any way you slice it.

I'd argue that the reason they were not 3-0 was because they punted on the season. Benign neglect in the service of ends aside from winning games.

When you have 40 replacement-level players on a 53-man roster, this is what happens.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'd argue that the reason they were not 3-0 was because they punted on the season. Benign neglect in the service of ends aside from winning games.

When you have 40 replacement-level players on a 53-man roster, this is what happens.

You could argue that, but it would be near impossible to prove...

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You keep saying that they punted on the season, when they very well should have been 3-0. That's not punting any way you slice it.

DCR - If you take a look at our record at this point, (not 3 weeks in the season when we were actually 1-3), we're tied for the second worst record in football!

If they were genuinely trying this season - that's terrifying! If Monti looked at the roster and thought "this is a legitimate playoff team" we need a new GM. You can't seriously be saying that the Cards were trying to compete this year - nobody is really trying to make that argument. All the evidence (outside of the people paid to tell us they're really trying!) points to a team that spent an entire NFL season on current player evaluation.

Madness.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You could argue that, but it would be near impossible to prove...

Lol… the fact that we couldn’t beat the absolutely pathetic Washington and the woeful Danny Dimes Giants is evidence we punted on the season, not in contradiction of.

The fact that we are 3-10 and in running for the 2nd pick in the draft, having gone into the year knowing we didn’t have a QB for the first half of the year is also evidence they punted on the season. I mean, if he was actually TRYING to win THIS SEASON, do you think he’s successful in the goal of winning? Because if he was actually trying to win this year, he did an atrocious job doing so.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Lol… the fact that we couldn’t beat the absolutely pathetic Washington and the woeful Danny Dimes Giants is evidence we punted on the season, not in contradiction of.

The fact that we are 3-10 and in running for the 2nd pick in the draft, having gone into the year knowing we didn’t have a QB for the first half of the year is also evidence they punted on the season. I mean, if he was actually TRYING to win THIS SEASON, do you think he’s successful in the goal of winning? Because if he was actually trying to win this year, he did an atrocious job doing so.

Has nothing to do with circumstances outside of this organizations control, right?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

DCR - If you take a look at our record at this point, (not 3 weeks in the season when we were actually 1-3), we're tied for the second worst record in football!

If they were genuinely trying this season - that's terrifying! If Monti looked at the roster and thought "this is a legitimate playoff team" we need a new GM. You can't seriously be saying that the Cards were trying to compete this year - nobody is really trying to make that argument. All the evidence (outside of the people paid to tell us they're really trying!) points to a team that spent an entire NFL season on current player evaluation.

Madness.

I'm trying to say that they tried, but were never in a serious position to really compete this year. No matter if they didn't cut D-Hop, or signed another couple free agents.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Has nothing to do with circumstances outside of this organizations control, right?

To end up as one of THE WORST TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE? No.

But tell me… what were these circumstances completely out of control that no other team in the league faced en route to being tied for the 2nd worst team in football?