Bickley: JJ NO WANTY ATL...

[cepstrum]

I have been following the NBA for a loooong time, and I have never seen anything like this.........of course Sarver just showed up last year!!

Actually McDyess switched back and forth a couple of times before making up his mind. The difference was that he didnt do it because of money. He did it because he was pressured by friends. I think JJ lied about wanting to play in ATL because he was pressured by his agent and I think the suns lied about the reason that they arent matching.

The actual reason the suns arent matching is so Sarver can add that extra bedroom to his new house.

 

[SweetD]

Actually McDyess switched back and forth a couple of times before making up his mind. The difference was that he didnt do it because of money. He did it because he was pressured by friends. I think JJ lied about wanting to play in ATL because he was pressured by his agent and I think the suns lied about the reason that they arent matching.

The actual reason the suns arent matching is so Sarver can add that extra bedroom to his new house.

FYI Sarver makes more money from his business. The Suns are not his main source of income. I am sure JJ can now get that extra bedroom he wanted as well.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Actually McDyess switched back and forth a couple of times before making up his mind. The difference was that he didnt do it because of money. He did it because he was pressured by friends. I think JJ lied about wanting to play in ATL because he was pressured by his agent and I think the suns lied about the reason that they arent matching.

The actual reason the suns arent matching is so Sarver can add that extra bedroom to his new house.

protect jj all you want, but he's a grown man with a mind of his own. i won't deny that the atlanta affair was probably the agent's idea, but don't absolve jj of actually following that advice. jj made his bed, now he gets to sleep in it. if he does end up with the suns i'll be ecstatic. if he doesn't i won't shed a tear for HIM (for us fans, maybe, but not for jj). it was a gamble he took, just like sarver's gamble on not signing him last year. that's the thing about gambles, they have downsides.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

As my previous posts attest im a big fan of dealing the matrix next year. and if we can get a deal like diaw, some first round picks and an expiring contract i would do it in a second......

Why trade away undoubtedly the best rebounder on our team, and pound-for-pound, arguably the best rebounder in the league? Especially when taking into account the fact that we're already an undersized team with problems rebounding the ball. You know what that leaves us with? A team with serious rebounding deficiencies. Marion is special. Marion is an all-star. He should not be traded away for anything less than another proven stud. It would absolutely sicken me to see us trade away Marion for something like this deal for JJ.

 

[cepstrum]

protect jj all you want, but he's a grown man with a mind of his own. i won't deny that the atlanta affair was probably the agent's idea, but don't absolve jj of actually following that advice. jj made his bed, now he gets to sleep in it. if he does end up with the suns i'll be ecstatic. if he doesn't i won't shed a tear for HIM (for us fans, maybe, but not for jj). it was a gamble he took, just like sarver's gamble on not signing him last year. that's the thing about gambles, they have downsides.

Im not protecting JJ. Im just saying that the reason the suns arent matching is because of financial reasons and not because JJ didn't want to be here. The suns spin machine is one of the most potent that I have ever seen. I dont care what JJ said. It was ultimately the suns decision not to match and to ultimately break up a championship caliber team.

 

[cepstrum]

FYI Sarver makes more money from his business. The Suns are not his main source of income. I am sure JJ can now get that extra bedroom he wanted as well.

Im sure he can. He can probably get 2, but what kind of idiot makes a rediculous offer (6 years for 60 mill) to JJ when a worse player (Redd) gets a 6 year 90 mill offer a couple of days before. Im sick of people trying to protect sarver. He screwed up royally. I can forgive him for last year because I honestly dont think that I wouldve signed him either but this years offer was just plain dumb.

 

[SweetD]

Im not protecting JJ. Im just saying that the reason the suns arent matching is because of financial reasons and not because JJ didn't want to be here. The suns spin machine is one of the most potent that I have ever seen. I dont care what JJ said. It was ultimately the suns decision not to match and to ultimately break up a championship caliber team.

FYI the Suns had to match to trade him. JJ said I want to go to Atlanta so we sent him packing. It is very simple. If we didn't want his money we didn't have to match the offer.

 

[cepstrum]

FYI the Suns had to match to trade him. JJ said I want to go to Atlanta so we sent him packing. It is very simple. If we didn't want his money we didn't have to match the offer.

I dont understand your point. Please clarify... Are you saying that we have to match to trade him? Im not sure if that is true but even if it is so what? We are getting back a much smaller salary. As far as JJ saying that, well Brand said the same thing but even the CLIPPERS were smart enough to match.

 

[SweetD]

I dont understand your point. Please clarify... Are you saying that we have to match to trade him? Im not sure if that is true but even if it is so what? We are getting back a much smaller salary. As far as JJ saying that, well Brand said the same thing but even the CLIPPERS were smart enough to match.

This is correct the Suns have to match Atlanta's offer before they can trade him. Also if it was all about money the Suns didn't have to match the offer and could saved even more money.

 

[Chaplin]

This is correct the Suns have to match Atlanta's offer before they can trade him. Also if it was all about money the Suns didn't have to match the offer and could saved even more money.

Wait, I thought a sign-and-trade had nothing to do with matching--we need to go ahead and sign him to a contract without any help from Atlanta, and then turn around and trade him after he signs.

 

[The Commish]

I dont understand your point. Please clarify... Are you saying that we have to match to trade him? Im not sure if that is true but even if it is so what? We are getting back a much smaller salary. As far as JJ saying that, well Brand said the same thing but even the CLIPPERS were smart enough to match.

Clippers didn't have Amare, Nash, and Marion to pay.

 

[cepstrum]

Clippers didn't have Amare, Nash, and Marion to pay.

They were also far far far away from contention. We just made it to the WCF. My God. People are really buying the suns spin arent they.

 

[Lars the Red]

Why trade away undoubtedly the best rebounder on our team, and pound-for-pound, arguably the best rebounder in the league? Especially when taking into account the fact that we're already an undersized team with problems rebounding the ball. You know what that leaves us with? A team with serious rebounding deficiencies. Marion is special. Marion is an all-star. He should not be traded away for anything less than another proven stud. It would absolutely sicken me to see us trade away Marion for something like this deal for JJ.

I completely agree. I think there are a large number of players that could have similar success to what JJ has done if they came and played in our system. JJ is blessed with a very well rounded game, something we don't see that often in the league anymore. Shawn Marion is even more special. His physical ability is one that is rare in sports. He is crazy long, which makes him a brutal matchup for almost everyone. He can play defense against 2's, 3's and 4's. He can rebound with any of them. His shot, while really bizarre looking, is steady. He can run and finish as well as any player in the league.

No, if we have to eventually take our medicine, I'd rather do it now and lose JJ, than do it next year and force Shawn out.

 

[cepstrum]

This is correct the Suns have to match Atlanta's offer before they can trade him. Also if it was all about money the Suns didn't have to match the offer and could saved even more money.

They are getting 1.9 mill back (diaw's salary) compared to the 12 that JJ will be making. So yes you are right they would be saving an extra 1.9 mill if they just let him leave

 

[SweetD]

Wait, I thought a sign-and-trade had nothing to do with matching--we need to go ahead and sign him to a contract without any help from Atlanta, and then turn around and trade him after he signs.

As of right now the Suns only hold JJ's rights. In order to trade him they would need to sign JJ to a contract then trade him. This is why the trade exception comes in down the road. The Suns sign JJ, by matching the Hawks offer then, trade him and his new contract to the Hawks. The Hawks send Boris player, 2 picks, and the trade exception. I think the only hold up in the trade is figuring out how much JJ's 1st year salary will be.

 

[Chaz]

Im sure he can. He can probably get 2, but what kind of idiot makes a rediculous offer (6 years for 60 mill) to JJ when a worse player (Redd) gets a 6 year 90 mill offer a couple of days before. Im sick of people trying to protect sarver. He screwed up royally. I can forgive him for last year because I honestly dont think that I wouldve signed him either but this years offer was just plain dumb.

Just because the Bucks OVERPAID Redd why do the Suns have to overpay JJ?

The Bucks don't have anyone else to pay. Just like when we signed Marion.


10 Million a season is nothing to sneeze at. Plus you don't start high in a negotiation where you have leverage. I think the 6years / $75 Million sounds fair. A max offer would cripple the Suns with the salary cap and luxury tax.

I am not sure the Suns want him for 5 years /70 Million. I think they would match if forced to (If ATL vetos the trade and signs JJ to the offer sheet).


I think these attacks on Sarver are a little out of hand now. The deal is not even final.

 

[Chaplin]

As of right now the Suns only hold JJ's rights. In order to trade him they would need to sign JJ to a contract then trade him.

Correct. The question is, why do we need to match him? There's no reason for it. We could simply trade Shawn Marion to Atlanta right now and get the same exact package.

This is why the trade exception comes in down the road. The Suns sign JJ, by matching the Hawks offer then, trade him and his new contract to the Hawks. The Hawks send Boris player, 2 picks, and the trade exception. I think the only hold up in the trade is figuring out how much JJ's 1st year salary will be.

Take that paragraph and remove "by matching the Hawks offer" and you still have the same trade.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Im not protecting JJ. Im just saying that the reason the suns arent matching is because of financial reasons and not because JJ didn't want to be here. The suns spin machine is one of the most potent that I have ever seen. I dont care what JJ said. It was ultimately the suns decision not to match and to ultimately break up a championship caliber team.

i still think it's part sarver's fault and part jj's. though i'm beginning to think more and more it's sarver. if ultimately jj wants to remain, then they can work something out. unless sarver is pinching pennies. sign him and later trade him (next year) or marion if the luxury tax becomes a problem. but make your run for championship this year.

 

[SweetD]

Correct. The question is, why do we need to match him? There's no reason for it. We could simply trade Shawn Marion to Atlanta right now and get the same exact package.

I am sure the Suns would rather have Marion over JJ, plus not sure the Hawks want Marion either.

 

[Chaplin]

I am sure the Suns would rather have Marion over JJ, plus not sure the Hawks want Marion either.

That's not the point of the conversation, but ok.

 

[cepstrum]

Just because the Bucks OVERPAID Redd why do the Suns have to overpay JJ?

The Bucks don't have anyone else to pay. Just like when we signed Marion.


10 Million a season is nothing to sneeze at. Plus you don't start high in a negotiation where you have leverage. I think the 6years / $75 Million sounds fair. A max offer would cripple the Suns with the salary cap and luxury tax.

I am not sure the Suns want him for 5 years /70 Million. I think they would match if forced to (If ATL vetos the trade and signs JJ to the offer sheet).


I think these attacks on Sarver are a little out of hand now. The deal is not even final.

Ummm... the bucks, sonics, and cavs set the market for shooting guards this year. The suns lowballed him. I just dont understand how people can forget so quickly the season we had last year. We couldve had at least another one like that. An expensive JJ is better then no JJ. Especially on a championship caliber team.

 

[cepstrum]

One thing I would LOVE to see is how the suns would spin it if the deal fell through and JJ came back.

 

[Chaz]

Ummm... the bucks, sonics, and cavs set the market for shooting guards this year. The suns lowballed him. I just dont understand how people can forget so quickly the season we had last year. We couldve had at least another one like that. An expensive JJ is better then no JJ. Especially on a championship caliber team.

You do realize a MAX contract will break up this team anyway right?

 

[SweetD]

i still think it's part sarver's fault and part jj's. though i'm beginning to think more and more it's sarver. if ultimately jj wants to remain, then they can work something out. unless sarver is pinching pennies. sign him and later trade him (next year) or marion if the luxury tax becomes a problem. but make your run for championship this year.

This is were I think a lot of people are missing what happened last year. JJ was inconsistent and was not worth a long term deal last year. I think the big issue the Q signing. Q was signed by Sarver and interviewed by him. He is the one that didn't mind overpaying for Q. Now JJ wanted to shop the market he got someone to overpay the Suns made moves to clear space to sign him. He also said publicly he wanted to play in Atlanta instead of Phoenix. He got his wish money and were he wants to play.

 

[Chaplin]

Ummm... the bucks, sonics, and cavs set the market for shooting guards this year. The suns lowballed him. I just dont understand how people can forget so quickly the season we had last year. We couldve had at least another one like that. An expensive JJ is better then no JJ. Especially on a championship caliber team.

You also have to take into consideration that some of us don't want to be the Florida Marlins. I would LOVE to win a championship next year, but I would hate to win that one and then automatically rebuild immediately after.