Booker Upset with Front Office?

[ColdPickleNachos]

Melodramatic much?

I'm a Phoenix Suns fan. You come after Booker, you get the melodrama.

 

[Hoop Head]

So let me get this straight. The story you guys are weaving is if Booker doesnt get absolute max he will hold this grudge for years and bolt to pretty much anywhere but here. He won't care if JJ is a borderline allstar or Ayton is a generational big. He won't care if he has "friends" on the team or the fact that Arizona isn't a bad place to live. He won't care if the suns are on the cusp of something great. He will just dwell and dwell and dwell on the fact he didn't get max. He won't consider this a business and that other players need to be signed. He will be petty and just leave to anywhere because he felt slighted years prior and go to some other team where everything will be perfect.


Uh huh

Quit deflecting and rephrasing your argument because no one is agreeing with you. You're literally the only person here who thinks we can somehow keep Booker by lowballing him.

Instead of ignoring things you've been asked over and over by people, try answering some questions that have been asked of you. What you're asking here has already been answered. This won't be a multi-year thing. It's happening now.

 

[Raindog]

I don't think anyone wants to go through the Joe Johnson scenario again - and with the personalities involved with running the franchise, it's not too hard to imagine history repeating itself with the egos involved. I think that is why everyone is nervous about this. The Suns don't have a good recent history of dealing with this sort of thing.

The (original) JJ situation was a colossal screw-up by the Suns - like franchise history altering, in all likelihood. If Sarver goes down that road again, playing chicken with another top level talent who could help take the franchise to greater heights, then there is just really no hope for this team for the foreseeable future.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Let's see what happens. When Booker doesn't get max are you guys going to admit you were wrong ? I'm saying he's not getting absolute max. If he was the only stud we have I could see maxing him out.

He is going to get a max. The only thing they are going to argue about is whether he gets a player option after year three. I would oppose all player options.

 

[pokerface]

Quit deflecting and rephrasing your argument because no one is agreeing with you. You're literally the only person here who thinks we can somehow keep Booker by lowballing him.

Instead of ignoring things you've been asked over and over by people, try answering some questions that have been asked of you. What you're asking here has already been answered. This won't be a multi-year thing. It's happening now.

If Booker doesn't get "lowballed" then Ayton or someother might. Someone isn't going to get they are owed. They all can't get max.


PS you think I care if no one agrees with me? Who do you think you are talking to? What kind of childish statement is that? I don't bow to peer pressure ....at all. I'm stating what I believe....deal with it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We have Ayton. Jackson and Bridges could also help in keeping Booker around. Yes they are unproven but I'm not going to worry about Booker leaving years down the road . Many things could happen. The suns could be contenders is three or four year. He may not want to leave then.

I'm not worried so much about Booker leaving, I'm worried about how it will look if we lowball him. Now, if they've decided he isn't worth the max and they've overrated him by making him the face of our future, fine. But if we're seriously building around him then it makes no sense to alienate him over a small discount. If for no other reason than we just don't need any more bad press.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

He is going to get a max. The only thing they are going to argue about is whether he gets a player option after year three. I would oppose all player options.

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned the only year I would consider it would be in year 5 only. Even then I would be very cautious about that.

 

[Ronin]

I want Booker to take the ol' Tom Brady discount but dreaming is free.

 

[pokerface]

I'm not worried so much about Booker leaving, I'm worried about how it will look if we lowball him. Now, if they've decided he isn't worth the max and they've overrated him by making him the face of our future, fine. But if we're seriously building around him then it makes no sense to alienate him over a small discount. If for no other reason than we just don't need any more bad press.

That's an argument I can almost buy. Sarver has been stung in negotiations before so he may cower some.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I want Booker to take the ol' Tom Brady discount but dreaming is free.

There may come a time when we will want/need Booker to give us that discount but that will be the next contract or maybe the one after. When we really are knocking on the championship door, I could see us asking him to take a lesser amount so that we can put or keep the right pieces around him. Same might happen with Ayton a few contracts from now.

 

[pokerface]

I don't think anyone wants to go through the Joe Johnson scenario again - and with the personalities involved with running the franchise, it's not too hard to imagine history repeating itself with the egos involved. I think that is why everyone is nervous about this. The Suns don't have a good recent history of dealing with this sort of thing.

The (original) JJ situation was a colossal screw-up by the Suns - like franchise history altering, in all likelihood. If Sarver goes down that road again, playing chicken with another top level talent who could help take the franchise to greater heights, then there is just really no hope for this team for the foreseeable future.

Sarver just should have matched the offer. That was his only crime.

 

[Ronin]

There may come a time when we will want/need Booker to give us that discount but that will be the next contract or maybe the one after. When we really are knocking on the championship door, I could see us asking him to take a lesser amount so that we can put or keep the right pieces around him. Same might happen with Ayton a few contracts from now.

I was trying to remember if there has been a player in the nba who took discounts to help out there team....
...then I remembered Tim Duncan did it during the Spurs Championship run.
So there is hope that maybe one of our budding stars would do it.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

There is another thing that I haven't really seen taken into consideration here and that is the projection of the future cap. Booker would be signing a max against a cap that is currently 101 million, but that number is expected to get much higher in the following years. The cap is expected to be as high as 134 million in the last year of Booker's contract. Thus I don't see Booker's deal now having too much of an effect on our ability to extend JJ and Ayton later.

 

[Hoop Head]

PS you think I care if no one agrees with me? Who do you think you are talking to? What kind of childish statement is that? I don't bow to peer pressure ....at all. I'm stating what I believe....deal with it.

Did I say that you care about no one agreeing with you? No, I didn't. I simply pointed out that no one did and you keep rephrasing your argument over and over rather than actually respond to points or questions that others are making.

No one is trying to peer pressure you into agreeing with them.

You're simply presenting your side quite poorly because literally no one here seems to see how you're coming up with the things you've said. Like how it'll be an issue for years down the road. That's simply not true. This happening right now. It's not an issue to deal with years later. If we don't offer Booker an extension that he feels he deserves there is a very good chance that will ruin the Suns relationship with him completely. Since things a little shaky already because of the Ulis release, we can't afford to go into negotiations with him trying to get the upper hand and thinking he'll be willing to leave millions on the table.

No one in the media has said anything about Booker getting less than the max, that's telling on it's own because it says what the market value is. It was even posted here a little bit ago about the only way the Suns could mess negotiations with Booker is by trying to short him on his exchange. If the Suns do that then it could damage things to the point where they can't be repaired.

You seem to keep saying it's nothing to worry about though when that can't be farther from the truth. If Booker asks out because we lowballed him, the Suns are screwed. We can't force him into a longer deal and then come back to this years later like you seem to keep saying, it's something that will need to be dealt with now. Keeping him after he asks for a trade is not a good idea.

 

[Hoop Head]

Sarver just should have matched the offer. That was his only crime.

Matching the offer would have been a much bigger crime. Literally no team has ever matched an offer to a player in that sort of situation. Johnson wanted out, badly, and made that clear. If the Suns matched the Atlanta offer then he would have demanded a trade. What good would that do the Suns?

Restricted or not, this a players league and the player has leverage. He could go to the media and say his piece and they'll side with the player 99.9% of the time. I could see the players association getting involved also. If the relationship is damaged that much you don't pay him the player a ton of money and say "whatever, play". That wouldn't end well, for anyone. The sign and trade was the best the Suns could do in that moment.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Matching the offer would have been a much bigger crime. Literally no team has ever matched an offer to a player in that sort of situation. Johnson wanted out, badly, and made that clear. If the Suns matched the Atlanta offer then he would have demanded a trade. What good would that do the Suns?

Restricted or not, this a players league and the player has leverage. He could go to the media and say his piece and they'll side with the player 99.9% of the time. I could see the players association getting involved also. If the relationship is damaged that much you don't pay him the player a ton of money and say "whatever, play". That wouldn't end well, for anyone. The sign and trade was the best the Suns could do in that moment.

The Hornets matched for Eric Gordon when we offered him a max. I can't remember if he made it public that he absolutely wanted out from that team or not though.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Hornets matched for Eric Gordon when we offered him a max. I can't remember if he made it public that he absolutely wanted out from that team or not though.

I remember that, it was quite different. There wasn't an extension offered the previous year to Gordon like JJ, which is one thing, but he also said that if the Hornets matched then they matched and he'd give his all for them but he wanted to come to Phoenix. He played both sides, in a way, as far as I remember it. It wasn't like JJ's deal though. JJ made it very clear he did not want to return to Phoenix, he said that before he even got an offer from anyone. It wasn't that he wanted to be a Hawk that badly, he just didn't want to be a Sun. That's a big difference. I remember some veiled threats also but don't recall the specifics. Basically if the Suns did match, it could have gotten very ugly though. They had the right to, but it would have hurt them around the league with other players also if they did. Since the sign and trade was on the table, they did that instead of pushing the issue.

 

[pokerface]

Did I say that you care about no one agreeing with you? No, I didn't. I simply pointed out that no one did and you keep rephrasing your argument over and over rather than actually respond to points or questions that others are making.

No one is trying to peer pressure you into agreeing with them.

You're simply presenting your side quite poorly because literally no one here seems to see how you're coming up with the things you've said. Like how it'll be an issue for years down the road. That's simply not true. This happening right now. It's not an issue to deal with years later. If we don't offer Booker an extension that he feels he deserves there is a very good chance that will ruin the Suns relationship with him completely. Since things a little shaky already because of the Ulis release, we can't afford to go into negotiations with him trying to get the upper hand and thinking he'll be willing to leave millions on the table.

No one in the media has said anything about Booker getting less than the max, that's telling on it's own because it says what the market value is. It was even posted here a little bit ago about the only way the Suns could mess negotiations with Booker is by trying to short him on his exchange. If the Suns do that then it could damage things to the point where they can't be repaired.

You seem to keep saying it's nothing to worry about though when that can't be farther from the truth. If Booker asks out because we lowballed him, the Suns are screwed. We can't force him into a longer deal and then come back to this years later like you seem to keep saying, it's something that will need to be dealt with now. Keeping him after he asks for a trade is not a good idea.

Hey I could be wrong. I just think we have multiple talents now. Just because Booker is first in line doesn't mean he should get others cut of the pie. But like you are stating there are multiple factors at play and they may override negotiations...I can appreciate that. Booker is more proven too so that works out for him. But I still think Ayton 'could be' a game changer. Not only will he draw talent but help in retaining it. I think Booker will want to play with him and may take a little less in salary to stay on board....maybe. Plus like I said if he gets extended now he doesn't have to worry about getting hurt this season. I mean look at Cousins...he got hurt and his dollars might drop because of it.

 

[Ronin]

The Hornets matched for Eric Gordon when we offered him a max. I can't remember if he made it public that he absolutely wanted out from that team or not though.

He publicly "hoped" that the Hornets would not match.

New Orleans has claimed all along that it will match any offer Gordon receives, but Gordon is hoping the Hornets do not match.

Gordon said Tuesday night that his preference is to play for the Suns, not the Hornets.

"After visiting the Suns, the impression the organization made on me was incredible," Gordon said in a statement. "Mr. (Robert) Sarver, Lon Babby, Lance Blanks, the Front Office Staff and Coach (Alvin) Gentry run a first-class organization, and I strongly feel they are the right franchise for me. Phoenix is just where my heart is now."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ric-gordon-phoenix-suns-agree-max-salary-deal

 

[Hoop Head]

Didn't Johnson threaten to sign the QO? I want to say he did but I don't remember well enough to say for certain.

 

[SirStefan32]

Hey I could be wrong. I just think we have multiple talents now. Just because Booker is first in line doesn't mean he should get others cut of the pie. But like you are stating there are multiple factors at play and they may override negotiations...I can appreciate that. Booker is more proven too so that works out for him. But I still think Ayton 'could be' a game changer. Not only will he draw talent but help in retaining it. I think Booker will want to play with him and may take a little less in salary to stay on board....maybe. Plus like I said if he gets extended now he doesn't have to worry about getting hurt this season. I mean look at Cousins...he got hurt and his dollars might drop because of it.

We don't have multiple talents. We have multiple players with potential. Booker is the only proven talent we have. Booker has earned the max. He is only getting his piece of the pie. Jackson had a few decent games, and Ayton hasn't played in a single game yet. They will spend the next couple of years trying to earn their piece of the pie.

 

[Hoop Head]

You can't look at it as Booker getting a piece of Ayton's money, or Jackson's, if it were really like that then why in the world would any player go along with tanking? Booker was happy to have Ayton, he was ecstatic, but if McD and Sarver can't take a step back now and tell him that since we won the lottery and added a potential franchise Center that now Booker's extension will be less than it would have been had we gotten screwed during the lottery and ended up picking 3rd or 4th. It doesn't work that way, not on the small max when a player is coming off of their rookie contract.

Maybe down the road on his second max that sort of thinking may happen but not this soon. Right now his max is 25% of the cap. Waiting could even hurt the Suns because if Booker wins MVP, which is unlikely but stranger things have happened, then he'd qualify for the supermax for for his age and get a max that is 30% of the cap. That's why it's best to sew things up now.

 

[Chaplin]

There are plenty of pieces to the pie, especially in 3-4 years when the cap will also grow.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

We don't have multiple talents. We have multiple players with potential. Booker is the only proven talent we have. Booker has earned the max. He is only getting his piece of the pie. Jackson had a few decent games, and Ayton hasn't played in a single game yet. They will spend the next couple of years trying to earn their piece of the pie.

Not to mention that by the time those guys' extensions were to kick in Booker would only be taking about 25% of the cap and thus would not be dipping into their "piece of the pie" should they prove to be max players.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Lowballing Booker threatens the #Timeline. Just pay the kid and show some loyalty to a good young player who hasn't bitched about the #Timeline publicly. The most asinine thing the Suns could do is to piss off the lone proven star on the roster by lowballing him. Does anyone want to see Devin Booker leaving the Suns and becoming a part of the next super team just because the Suns were quibbling over dollars?