Booker Upset with Front Office?

[pokerface]

Define "almost max" because if it is close to max they may as well just offer max. No reason to get cute with negotiations. There is also precedence for a max contract because of guys like Wiggins getting the max and Booker is certainly better than Wiggins was before he got his deal.

I just think when it comes extensions teams try to get some edge. Some concession .

 

[Folster]

29 other GMs in this league would offer Booker the max without blinking.

The only way Booker doesn't sign his max now is if they promise him the same contract will be available next summer and it's up to him on when he wants to sign it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

No player options for Book.

 

[Hoop Head]

They can offer Booker a deal below the max, by about 10 million, and tell him he can take that and we'll sign Ulis back with the money he's leaving on the table or he can have the full max to himself. He can make the decision of how much he values Ulis. Is it enough he'll take a pay cut? If it's not, what's the problem? If he doesn't think he's worth paying either then he can see where the Suns are coming from.

 

[Errntknght]

It's not about the money for Ulis, it's that he takes up a roster spot. House, Len, and Payton are also gone from last year. Ayton, Bridges and Olobo take their spots.
Definitely on the roster:
Ayton, Booker, Bridges, Jackson, Bender, Chriss. Ariza, Knight, Okobo, Chandler, Dudley, and Warren. That's 12.
Other candidates.
Williams
Reed
Peters
Harrison
Canaan
Daniels
King

We can add three to the roster and 2 two-way contracts. So two of those seven have to go.
Of course, Dudley is close to deadwood and Warren is looking to be the odd man out at SF - but if we trade him we get someone back most likely.

IMO, we should buy out Duds and waive or renounce Daniels - he's too bad at defense to keep around. A lot of people seem to have written Williams off already but if he returns to form he's our best big outside of Ayton. Actually, Peters is probably second to him though Chriss and Bender likely have more upside. My guess is that SL and training camp are auditions for him and Reed - who looked awful when he finally got on the floor last season.
Canaan, should he be back to health, will probably be penciled in to start at PG. I hope Harrison can challenge him because he's got good size and is a better defender - he needs a three point shot at 33% or higher to be close to a starter, though. My guess is that Igor and McD will be monitoring the PG play closely and if it looks too poor, they'll be looking outside, with Warren as trade bait. If it's worse than poor they might cut Canaan or Harrison and bring Ulis back. Okobo gets a pass for this summer and may become a two way player so he can get lots of PT.
Heck, they may turn up a gem in SL to complicate matters even more.

 

[Chaplin]

Nah...almost max but not max

Did you learn NOTHING from Joe Johnson??!

 

[pokerface]

Did you learn NOTHING from Joe Johnson??!

Sarver could have matched it if he wanted. Joe just wanted out...he was sick of being Nash's "decoy" in the corner...remember? He wanted to be the man.

 

[Hoop Head]

Sarver could have matched it if he wanted. Joe just wanted out...he was sick of being Nash's "decoy" in the corner...remember? He wanted to be the man.

This is NOTHING like the Joe Johnson deal. JJ was offered a lowball extension and told to go earn more. He did that and more, earning max offers from elsewhere. He didn't want to be with a team that didn't value him as a top guy. Yes, Sarver could have matched but that bridge was burned already. Matching wouldn't have done anything to help the Suns really.

I don't see why you're now in this "Almost Max" camp. It seems like you've taken a McD sort of stance though and not taking player personalities into account. You've said it numerous times with different player though, how we control their future and shouldn't worry about their viewpoint. You can't act like that with NBA players because it will blow up in your face.

 

[pokerface]

This is NOTHING like the Joe Johnson deal. JJ was offered a lowball extension and told to go earn more. He did that and more, earning max offers from elsewhere. He didn't want to be with a team that didn't value him as a top guy. Yes, Sarver could have matched but that bridge was burned already. Matching wouldn't have done anything to help the Suns really.

I don't see why you're now in this "Almost Max" camp. It seems like you've taken a McD sort of stance though and not taking player personalities into account. You've said it numerous times with different player though, how we control their future and shouldn't worry about their viewpoint. You can't act like that with NBA players because it will blow up in your face.

I just said with extensions owners like some concession or deal. NBA is a money game too. There is something called a salary cap...ever hear of it? Teams have to wheel and deal to get the most talent they can and stay under that cap. We are going to want to resign Ayton for sure and probably Jackson/Bridges too.

Let's see if Booker gets the absolute max.

 

[Hoop Head]

I just said with extensions owners like some concession or deal. NBA is a money game too. There is something called a salary cap...ever hear of it? Teams have to wheel and deal to get the most talent they can and stay under that cap. We are going to want to resign Ayton for sure and probably Jackson/Bridges too.

Let's see if Booker gets the absolute max.

Seriously? You're worried about paying Ayton in 4-5 years or Jackson in 3-4? Sarver could like a concession all day but only an idiot would walk away from negotiations because Booker's camp won't concede anything. He'll walk next summer then because this franchise doesn't value him properly. Then where are we? I like Ayton's potential but you don't bet the farm on a guy who hasn't played in the NBA yet. If you heard Ayton talk about playing here he mentioned his pairing with Booker quite frequently. Booker is the Suns cornerstone. Let's see how Ayton likes it if we don't pay Booker and let him seek a max deal elsewhere.

Booker is a max player, compare him to other young players signing max deals and I don't see how you can deny it. There is no precedent in the NBA for what you're suggesting. "Since it's an extension, he should give up something". No, that's not how it works in the NBA and it's never been how it works with max talent. If they'll sign that deal, you lock them in.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Offering Booker less than the max would be insulting at this point. He can easily get the max elsewhere. You don't nitpick and look for bargains with your best player in a league where that best player can go to the media, demand a trade, and bring his value down significantly.

Also, the Suns have a bad reputation in dealing with players as it is. If they end up ostracizing Booker, that sets them back considerably in so many ways.

Not remotely worth it to try to nickel and dime and save a few million.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

They have been touting Booker as the face of the franchise for a year now. How absolutely ridiculous would it look to not be willing to give max to the “face of the franchise”.

 

[pokerface]

Seriously? You're worried about paying Ayton in 4-5 years or Jackson in 3-4? Sarver could like a concession all day but only an idiot would walk away from negotiations because Booker's camp won't concede anything. He'll walk next summer then because this franchise doesn't value him properly. Then where are we? I like Ayton's potential but you don't bet the farm on a guy who hasn't played in the NBA yet. If you heard Ayton talk about playing here he mentioned his pairing with Booker quite frequently. Booker is the Suns cornerstone. Let's see how Ayton likes it if we don't pay Booker and let him seek a max deal elsewhere.

Booker is a max player, compare him to other young players signing max deals and I don't see how you can deny it. There is no precedent in the NBA for what you're suggesting. "Since it's an extension, he should give up something". No, that's not how it works in the NBA and it's never been how it works with max talent. If they'll sign that deal, you lock them in.

Booker will sign an extension and it won't be for absolute max. If he don't sign and gets hurt this season then he's screwed. That's the leverage the suns have..plus having the ability to match. So I don't get this "he'll walk next summer"....no he won't.

 

[Folster]

Booker will sign an extension and it won't be for absolute max. If he don't sign and gets hurt this season then he's screwed. That's the leverage the suns have..plus having the ability to match. So I don't get this "he'll walk next summer"....no he won't.

I just can't even imagine this scenario. We're not talking about Eric Bledsoe striking out in restricted free agency. If we offer Booker anything less than the max, we might as well just trade him to the Lakers now.

 

[SirStefan32]

That's crazy talk. You give him the absolute max. Nothing less. Risking pissing him off over a couple of millions is the craziest thing I've heard here in quite a while.

 

[pokerface]

What do the suns gain giving him max now? They could just match next season for max. The point of the extension is to get some concession while Booker gets security knowing if he gets hurt he's covered .

 

[SirStefan32]

You gain securing him into a contract for many years. You gain making sure he doesn't get pissed off and leaves when he can.
I cannot believe that anyone is actually suggesting trying to low-ball him on his extension. This is flat-out insane.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

What do the suns gain giving him max now? They could just match next season for max. The point of the extension is to get some concession while Booker gets security knowing if he gets hurt he's covered .

The point of signing him this offseason instead of next is to both keep him away from free agency (where some ugly situations can arise) and to show him how much we value him by getting it done as early as possible. It’s not all about leverage at all.

 

[Mainstreet]

Booker will sign an extension and it won't be for absolute max. If he don't sign and gets hurt this season then he's screwed. That's the leverage the suns have..plus having the ability to match. So I don't get this "he'll walk next summer"....no he won't.

A player can effectively push his way out even if he is under contract.

You referred to Joe Johnson. He did it after previously been offered less than what he wanted in an extension the previous season. Sure the Suns could have matched as he was a RFA but they would have been dealing with an unhappy player. @Poop Head covered it quite nicely.

Players and agents can make their own leverage like Dragic and Bledsoe did as well. Apparently Leonard is doing the same thing. If a GM does not treat a player with respect it often comes back to bite them.

 

[pokerface]

You gain securing him into a contract for many years. You gain making sure he doesn't get pissed off and leaves when he can.
I cannot believe that anyone is actually suggesting trying to low-ball him on his extension. This is flat-out insane.

He's locked in regardless. I'm not going to worry about him being pissed off five years down the line. That's a long time and a lot of scenarios . For him to leave later he'd have to abandon Ayton and maybe play for a crappy team strictly for money.

 

[pokerface]

The team isn't all about Booker anymore. We have multiple talents. They are going to want to get paid too.

 

[Mainstreet]

He's locked in regardless. I'm not going to worry about him being pissed off five years down the line. That's a long time and a lot of scenarios . For him to leave later he'd have to abandon Ayton and maybe play for a crappy team strictly for money.

I'm not sure why you are making a stand on this. The Suns want to keep their franchise player happy or some other team will. It can happen.

 

[pokerface]

I'm not sure why you are making a stand on this. The Suns want to keep their franchise player happy or some other team will. It can happen.

Because it's a money game MS. It's business. Teams lose out if they can't afford anymore. The suns gain nothing by maxing out 100% right now. They have to anticipate future signings. Ayton was a game changer. If Booker walks we still have Ayton to attract talent. Booker will want to stay because of Ayton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We really need a dislike button. I just don't see any way we'd lowball Booker.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I dare Booker to start a war over this

Find a new slant.