Bye Bye Whiz

[PACardsFan]

Vince Lombardi never had a losing season.

Landry was fired after going 3-13.

Dick Vermeil only won 11 more than he lost. I wouldn't call him a GREAT coach.

No matter how thick your Kool Aid glasses are this season has been horrific and given the number of veteran players who left in the off season it really calls into question the ability of this coaching staff.

If you don't think Dick Vermeil was a great coach, then you really are clueless. BTW, I NEVER said that this wasn't a horrible year. It was. But, again, it was only ONE year. How long have you been a Cardinal fan?? I watched crappy, crappy, crappy, crappy, crappy football for almost 50 f'in years with this franchise. Along comes Whisenhunt & takes us to a SB in YEAR 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I want to fire the guy after ONE horrible year??? Are you out of your mind??? We made that mistake with Coryell. Do we make it again? Browns fans are still sick that they fired Belechek. Wake up & stop spewing such stupidity.

 

[desertdawg]

Whiz makes the same mistakes over and over, he himself didn't show any progress this year. His only major decisions this year was the pathetic musical chairs he played with his carnival of QBs, all the way up to the last game.
If the offense starts off poorly next year while not hiring a good OC it will be obvious Whiz will pass all year long, and blame who ever is throwing the ball.
He doesn't plan around his QBs talent the same way Davis doesn't with the defense.

Why pass on first down all year? (mostly in shot gun) Why do this, tip off the defense with our formation, and throw constantly with sub-par QBs?
If Whiz doesn't get it together next year he can and should absolutely lose his job.

 

[PACardsFan]

Whiz makes the same mistakes over and over, he himself didn't show any progress this year. His only major decisions this year was the pathetic musical chairs he played with his carnival of QBs, all the way up to the last game.
If the offense starts off poorly next year while not hiring a good OC it will be obvious Whiz will pass all year long, and blame who ever is throwing the ball.
He doesn't plan around his QBs talent the same way Davis doesn't with the defense.

Why pass on first down all year? (mostly in shot gun) Why do this, tip off the defense with our formation, and throw constantly with sub-par QBs?
If Whiz doesn't get it together next year he can and should absolutely lose his job.

You had better pray that Whisenhunt succeeds here, otherwise you won't see a winner here for a long, long, long time (remember what happened after we dumped Coryell). I know that from experience. Everyone needs to stop bitching & let the guy turn things around. He made mistakes, as did the entire FO. He deserves the opportunity to fix it now. Best Cardinal coach I've seen & I've been following this mess for very close to 50 years.

 

[Duckjake]

If you don't think Dick Vermeil was a great coach, then you really are clueless. BTW, I NEVER said that this wasn't a horrible year. It was. But, again, it was only ONE year. How long have you been a Cardinal fan?? I watched crappy, crappy, crappy, crappy, crappy football for almost 50 f'in years with this franchise. Along comes Whisenhunt & takes us to a SB in YEAR 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I want to fire the guy after ONE horrible year??? Are you out of your mind??? We made that mistake with Coryell. Do we make it again? Browns fans are still sick that they fired Belechek. Wake up & stop spewing such stupidity.

Sorry but unlike you I don't believe the Cardinals have to be a franchise that will never win 10 to 11 games in a row for several years. If I want to be a fan of a winning team I have to go be a Patriots fan? How sick is that? Talk about Battered Fan Syndrome.

I never said to fire CKW. I said that this season has exposed what is a weak coaching staff. The team that went to the SB had the most players with the most time in the NFL with the same team in the entire league that season. NFL quality veteran players.

The Cards lose most of them and they go right back to being the same old Cardinals. 1-7 on the road getting killed in almost every game and once again losing to the worst team in the NFL. That makes it hard to believe its a fluke.

Last in the NFL in rushing attempts 3 years in a row?!? 4 years on the job and they still can't field a defense that's any different than the ones Green or McGinnis or Tobin put on the field? Still have running backs with a defender in their face as soon as they get the handoff just like they did 4 years ago?

Those aren't signs of a one year hiccup.

Finally I've been a Cardinal fan since they drafted King Hill if that means anything to you.

 

[desertdawg]

You had better pray that Whisenhunt succeeds here, otherwise you won't see a winner here for a long, long, long time (remember what happened after we dumped Coryell). I know that from experience. Everyone needs to stop bitching & let the guy turn things around. He made mistakes, as did the entire FO. He deserves the opportunity to fix it now. Best Cardinal coach I've seen & I've been following this mess for very close to 50 years.

I have supported the Whiz since he came in. I haven't forgotten what he has accomplished on a previously pathetic team. But almost all of his choices this year perplex me and I am now wondering why he rolls like this. He gets his shot next year, he has earned it, but if its a sad continuation of this year, I won't be surprised now. He even said it was because he didn't have Bulger! Desperate words from a desperate man, casting blame on his only QB that didn't throw more picks than TD passes.
While having the least amount of reps.

 

[cardpa]

The first person Whiz needs to re-evaluate is himself. He made a lot of mistakes this year and many were big mistakes.

He also needs to re-evaluate his relationship with the players. He constantly threw the QBs under the bus all season long. The worn out phase "we need better play out of the QB position" while the play calling was horrid and did little or nothing to help the QB flavor of the week out. In Whiz's mind it had little or nothing to do with the production out of the QB is mind boggling.

Whiz placed this team and its players in a position to fail often. A head coach needs to place his team and its players in a position to succeed.

Despite his success in prior years this season exposed some severe shortcomings in Whiz. The question for for this off season and next season is can Whiz overcome his biggest obstacle. Himself.

 

[Rats]

You had better pray that Whisenhunt succeeds here, otherwise you won't see a winner here for a long, long, long time (remember what happened after we dumped Coryell). I know that from experience. Everyone needs to stop bitching & let the guy turn things around. He made mistakes, as did the entire FO. He deserves the opportunity to fix it now. Best Cardinal coach I've seen & I've been following this mess for very close to 50 years.

You need to stop pulling Coryell up as someone Whiz should be compared to. On his best day Whiz is no where near as innovative or charismatic as Don. He is not the reason we won here in the desert. Coryell was the reason we won in the 70's. Getting a new stadium, DG bringing in real NFL talent and simply put Kurt Warner got us to a SB despite the overmatched coaching. I will not stop 'bitching" about him because he sucks at playcalling and can't evaluate talent. He likes to start has beens on the Oline (Faneca)and never was(BRob) on the Dline. I bet you just loved the Levi Brown pick. Maybe you need to go root for one of the PA teams as you seem to be glad we got a couple of there reject coaches and players. Whiz sucks. Signed a long time fan.

 

[THESMEL]

I do pray Whiz succeeds here,

I liked the list of current players talent accomplishments posted.

I think Levi Brown is great not good, He has more pressure than anyone in the NFL including QB's. throwing like our hair is on fire, defenses know our play selection, with KW and our current rottwen Cardinal eggs. Ye you couldn't protect a Cards QB with a a machine gun. Thats why the players voted Levi Pro bowl last year.

Its not only what Whiz has done but how he has done it. Crapping on platers constyantly to see how they respond. He has burnt bridges and they don't want to play for him, Just look at them! Matt, Beanie, DD went to the media first for a reason.
Whiz will punk you like he did Deuce, He will kill your career and leave you NFL road kill in a ditch, and never think twice about it, Dick Vermeil He is not. Dick will be asked to enter Kurt in the HOF, Whiz will be asked to shut up.

Whiz has lost this team, They have not played for anything more than money since the Saints playoff game, Fitz had no confidence in DA, rolled his eyes and body language in the preseason. But He did not dare defend Matt, Whiz has complete personell power.

Pittsburg is hard nosed but they don't talk out the side of their mouths or burn players at the stake in public. Even not disclosing Beanies preseason injury, I seen it when it happened, knew it was bad. but Whiz comes out like Beanie is a lazy no good running back that has not earned the right to start, THT is starting.

Then Beanie came forward to the media and was the antichrist, Whiz destroyed his year on purpose. Whiz is a tool he has absolutely no consideration for his players, and that hurts this team.

Yes many other if not all othe NFL coaches would have won this division with the talent Whiz had this last offseason. None would have cut Matt Leinart- None zip-notta. None would have had Beanie in, late in the last preseason game, or rusted him on the bench for 2 years.

I expect the same next year and forever, Please I pray yopu tell me why I should expect Whiz to change this behavior.

 

[john h]

I want Whiz to stay but I see nothing that shows any reason to keep him. He sucks, He has not adjusted back after KW left, He really out sucks the fired coaches pretty bad.

No matter who or what the QB is he throws 2 times to every run, not very well either.

starting stupid THT, Now after starting 35 times, Whiz has not left any doubts that THT is not a starting quality Rb.

UFA Max, Willuams Komar (Bartel and Skelton) are our saviors and our future. While Beanie and Matt are pieces of crap!

Yea Whiz is way over his head,

His staff looks like they came from a cracker jacks box toy surprise!

Why do anybody expect to se anything different than what we have already seen from Whiz next year or beyond?

Tht willbe a starter, our best player will be on the bench, and mostour draft picks will be playing elsewhere.

If Whiz never balanced it this year he never will, I'm hopeless!

It is not in the nature of the Bidwills to pay two HC at the same time. That being said whiz will be here. Count on it or call me a Dumb A-- Fan!

 

[john h]

I want Whiz to stay but I see nothing that shows any reason to keep him. He sucks, He has not adjusted back after KW left, He really out sucks the fired coaches pretty bad.

No matter who or what the QB is he throws 2 times to every run, not very well either.

starting stupid THT, Now after starting 35 times, Whiz has not left any doubts that THT is not a starting quality Rb.

UFA Max, Willuams Komar (Bartel and Skelton) are our saviors and our future. While Beanie and Matt are pieces of crap!

Yea Whiz is way over his head,

His staff looks like they came from a cracker jacks box toy surprise!

Why do anybody expect to se anything different than what we have already seen from Whiz next year or beyond?

Tht willbe a starter, our best player will be on the bench, and mostour draft picks will be playing elsewhere.

If Whiz never balanced it this year he never will, I'm hopeless!

Apparently some teams are looking at Russ Grimm as a head coach? If John Elway will go back to Denver to help out why would Kurt not come back to AZ to help out? Actually I do not know that any ex star can transfer his former QB skills to a group of dufases.

 

[Pariah]

Actually I do not know that any ex star can transfer his former QB skills to a group of dufases.

Warner, more than any other player, "got" Marz's system of timing from the QB position. If anyone can teach it (other than Martz), it's likely him. But, to your point, I've met plenty of great players (in other sports) that couldn't translate what they did on the field to others (and on the flip side, I've met a lot of great coaches that weren't very good players). That's a trait that is too often taken for granted in some of the great athletes. Coaching is a lot different than playing.

 

[john h]

Whiz sucked, but hey, when given a roster with major holes on D and the OL and no QB no coach is going to look good. Did Whiz assemble this roster or the FO?

My guess is that a head coach is worth about 2 victories a season if he is good. The GM who assembles the team is responsible for the other 14 games. If ownership decides to hold back 30 mil a year or so under the allowed CAP money everyone concerned is handicapped. Bill Bidwill is no Paul Brown or George Hallas who gave a dam about their team performed aside from how much money they made. They seemed to grasp the idea that the better you are the more money you will make. Business around the world figured that out many years ago. The Bidwill's apparently still feel Cap Money in the hand is worth two Cap monies in the bush.

 

[john h]

It certainly is possible for him to be fired, though I am not sure it will happen. I think the Dallas win saved him if saving was needed, but getting demolised twice by the Crap Niners and Seahawks could still seal his fate.

Of all the division winners last year Dallas, Vikings, and Cardinals; Whis is the only coach with a job.

How can we beat up on Dallas who then beats up one of the best teams in the NFL the following week?

 

[john h]

LOL

Russ is reported to be on the short list of some teams for a Head Coaching job.

 

[Derm]

I used to tout this message board to other football fans (not necessarily just Cardinal fans). Lately I've been getting a lot of negative comments specifically related to the posters on the board. I equate this to the Whiz situation - I am a reflection of the moronic, illogical, dimwitted posts of which I have no control. So I should be fired for the Smel posts, eh?

The big reason to check the board now is to see your posts when your "medical" marijuana starts to kick-in. Trust me, you've proven that you deserve a special recommendation card just for physiological reasons alone.

 

[john h]

Do you really think the Cards had enough major shortcomings in personnel to produce this stinker of a season?

Sure makes a lot of people who were touting addition by subtraction this pre season look foolish if true.

I think that any team with no one even resembling a QB could have this kind of season. A football team starts and ends with the or at least an experienced competitive QB. Without one you will never win a division and are subject to the kind of season we had. A great QB and receivers can dominate offensively and win games. Warner, Fitz, Boldin, and Breaslon almost won it all. No other position player can do it. You might have a great defensive team but it takes a lot of players and they can win a division or like the Bears win a ring with an average half way crazy QB.

I am very anxious to see how the pros grade out the QB prospects coming out of college. It may be very different than what we as fans see. For those of you who watched the TCU game were you not impressed with one of the best looking QBs I have never heard of. He seemed to have it all. A senior with lots of smarts, 42+ wins in 4 years, great percentage completion rate, very good size, very very mobile. Not just mobile but a good runner period. I thought Wisconsin would eat TCU alive but this QB sure got my attention. I bet he gets the pros attention unless he goes on to grad school. Tomorrow night we can watch Mallet against Ohio State who tied for the Big Ten Championship. I have not watched Ohio State but their QB is supposed to be fast on his feet and they have some very good defensive men. If you have never watched Mallet this is a chance. When is the combine??? The Big Ten had their heads taken off by the SEC over the weekend.

 

[john h]

Do you really think the Cards had enough major shortcomings in personnel to produce this stinker of a season?

Sure makes a lot of people who were touting addition by subtraction this pre season look foolish if true.

The Cards had a season which became the perfect storm when our QBOTF became our quarterback of the past. Has he even played in a game since he was signed by the Texans? Will anyone sign him as a backup this year? It took us much to long to figure out he was not our QB consequently we waited to long to sign a FA QB from a diminished list of available QBs. Matt looked like a great pick and I thought we had made a steal. How wrong I was as we fans often are. That is why we are fans. I cannot throw a ball like Joe Montana but I bet Joe cannot fly a fighter like I can. If I make a mistake perhaps I die. If Joe made a mistake he perhaps comes out of the game. No one would pay to watch me fly but millions would pay to see Joe throw the ball on target. Who said life was fair however I liked my job as much as Joe liked his.

 

[john h]

I'm torn because I have seen his assetts under Cower and with Haley.
He basically has to be kept in check, keeping him doing what He is good at doing.

problem is He is the decider with his new contract and Graves is spineless as a supevisor with Denny and Whiz, Only supervision He did with Denny was fire him. With Mike Bidwills blessing.

I remember being against the grain, (imagine that) wanting Denny to have one more year, My reasoning was we had the Superbowl in Arizona that year, Edge and leinart had shown promise. Our best chance for a home SB, was not ripping it all apart and starting over.

Bill Cower kept Whiz's playcalling in check, that my friends is obvious, Even Haley ran the ball when it counted, like the games we actually won in 2008, including the playoffs.

So outside sources evaluate Whiz's top skill as loyalty, I see that with Porter, Haggins, Ross, Faneca, morey and Mcfadden. I really don't see what he is better at than any other NFL coach.

Same penalty, undicipline problems as year 1, Same time and game management problems as year 1, same playcalling problems as year 1( after Matt went down with injury in game 5 since)

I don't know what you all see. I seen it then and every since, Our collapse late in 2008 I was a so and so for pleading for Edge and E Green, winning covered up alot of stench. But i said what I meant and meant what I said.

I'm well documented on profootballcentral predicting most before it happened, the good and the bad since offseason of 2007. yea I get beat with my misses but I had alot things wrong including this.

Bye Bye Whiz, if it was my choice, although I like him is my answer. I would not hire him as OC, and can't imagine a decent OC having success under him as HC? We need a new offense, a balanced offense,

You know like we HIRED WHIZ FOR!

Same with DC. who is gonna bring to fix this broken system, When we need a new defense. the talent level is good but mis managed.

I say Pay a new GM like Marty Schottenheimer and give him the power to mamage, supervise and help Whiz, or fire Whiz, Thats what GM's do,

lead, follow or get the hell out of the way!

We seen this before in Buddy Ryan, great coach that could not handle operations and personell, Denny was great at operations and personell but weak on coaching.

This aint Cards fans first rodeo, except for first time weve extended a head coach at top coach money. Whiz went through tossing Matty and other players trying to force square pegs in round holes.

It aint even a doubt about this at this point, My fear I voiced for years has reached fruitation. We suck, And Whiz does not have the ability to overcome this adversity, without major help and major changes and new systems that fit our personell.

Its been 5 years, of trying to get personell to fit the 3-4 and we suck even more at it1 last in everything,

I do not think there is a creative bone in Graves being. He fired DG likely because the boss told him to. He is likely the consummate yes man which is what Mr. Bidwill needs and that is how he survives. Mr. Bidwill then has cover for all the poor player personnel decisions. Is there a GM is more quiet than Rod Graves in the NFL. I do not think so. He is an enigma cloaked in mystery or perhaps a jedeye master playing three games of chess at once against the best in the world. Take your choice.

 

[john h]

Maybe they should hire Jerry Lundegard to be GM or better yet the badass dude from No Country For Old Men

Perhaps the greatest move we could ever make would be to hire a real GM who had the real powers of an NFL GM. As long as Mr. B is around you can forget that.

 

[john h]

I've never seen such a bunch of back-stabbing, ungrateful so-called fans in my life. When Whiz turns this around, I had better not see some of you singing his praises. ONE BAD SEASON & everyone jumps off the deep end. Are you kidding me??? Great coaches have these kind of years, but rebound. If we're looking like this next year, I'll understand. Until then, it's time to move on.

One bad season? You are looking at the short run. How about 60 bad years my man. Talk about ungratefull how about ownership dishing out to us what they have over my lifetime. The fans deserve a lot better than three different cities, firing perhaps the greatest offensive coach the NFL has ever seen, and being noted for having the worst franchise in the NFL for decade after decade after decade.

 

[desertdawg]

I used to tout this message board to other football fans (not necessarily just Cardinal fans). Lately I've been getting a lot of negative comments specifically related to the posters on the board. I equate this to the Whiz situation - I am a reflection of the moronic, illogical, dimwitted posts of which I have no control. So I should be fired for the Smel posts, eh?

The big reason to check the board now is to see your posts when your "medical" marijuana starts to kick-in. Trust me, you've proven that you deserve a special recommendation card just for physiological reasons alone.

Calm down Beavis.

 

[Catfish]

I want Whiz to stay but I see nothing that shows any reason to keep him. He sucks, He has not adjusted back after KW left, He really out sucks the fired coaches pretty bad.

No matter who or what the QB is he throws 2 times to every run, not very well either.

starting stupid THT, Now after starting 35 times, Whiz has not left any doubts that THT is not a starting quality Rb.

UFA Max, Willuams Komar (Bartel and Skelton) are our saviors and our future. While Beanie and Matt are pieces of crap!

Yea Whiz is way over his head,

His staff looks like they came from a cracker jacks box toy surprise!

Why do anybody expect to se anything different than what we have already seen from Whiz next year or beyond?

Tht willbe a starter, our best player will be on the bench, and mostour draft picks will be playing elsewhere.

If Whiz never balanced it this year he never will, I'm hopeless!

Smell, most of the time I am in agreement with you. This is not one of those times.

While I agree that Whiz created most of the problems we faced this off season, the loss of Kurt Warner was not his doing, (although he surely contributed in some way to Warner's decision to leave). No one, who goes from having a Hall of Fame QB to run his team, to having an unclear choice, (at least in his mind), for his QBOF should be jettisoned without having a chance to fix the problem he helped create. His prior efforts alone should be ample cause to keep him here for at least this next year. If he can re-adjust his thinking to the point where he fixes the problems he himself created, then we will have grown as an entire organization, and will have become stronger for it. Failure to identify and fix those problems however, should be grounds for his removal just a soon as it becomes clear that he cannot, (or will not), correct the course of this team.

 

[THESMEL]

Understand

I appreciate your tolerance of my view, while disagreeing.

I think any other head coached would have ran more than 33% with this personell.

I think any other Head coach would have kept Matt Leinart for 2.5 mil, who out played DA and every other NFL QB this preseason under constant blitz. while only getting short snaps, not preparing Matt for a season.

Whiz blamed it on Matt, utterly threw him under several busses at a time. It wasn't Matt We succked way worse without Matt, Thats not opinion anymore Thats facts in ther history book.

Deuce way under the bus, Beanie Way under the Bus. 3 stars treated like crap, worse i've ever seen! You seen it. I was lonely saying something.

Yes any games we won were in spite of Whiz's coaching, personell decision and play calling, not because of it.

and its all the Players fault, listen to his pressers today, Throwing the whole team under bus instead of individuals.

I've been an NFL fan over 40 years and never seen a coach avoid responsibility so much. have you? ever? and keep a job?

I have seen every player on every unit out of position, demoralized, quitters, like this before. but nebver seen a coach say He don't care what you did in the SB your out of here, you freaking scum players!

When its all broken at the same time, Its coach and GM I'm sure of it.

This is a train wreck with or without KW, or He would have been back. Its not Kurts first rodeo, and he was signed for 13.5 and gave some back!

Whiz is yet take any responsibilty in any area including his scrup coaching staff. It is all the players fault.

This is not fresh to me I've been flamed for saying it the whole time.

Just what clarity do you need? His team quit on him since the Saints playoff game, It sucks to be them!

Smell, most of the time I am in agreement with you. This is not one of those times.

While I agree that Whiz created most of the problems we faced this off season, the loss of Kurt Warner was not his doing, (although he surely contributed in some way to Warner's decision to leave). No one, who goes from having a Hall of Fame QB to run his team, to having an unclear choice, (at least in his mind), for his QBOF should be jettisoned without having a chance to fix the problem he helped create. His prior efforts alone should be ample cause to keep him here for at least this next year. If he can re-adjust his thinking to the point where he fixes the problems he himself created, then we will have grown as an entire organization, and will have become stronger for it. Failure to identify and fix those problems however, should be grounds for his removal just a soon as it becomes clear that he cannot, (or will not), correct the course of this team.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

After a season like this, I want people on this board who want to fire Whiz.

I may not agree, but after a season like that, it is more than reasonable to want to read into things from a different perspective.

That season was a failure on a lot of levels. There was more bad things happening than good things happening for a vast majority of the time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

After a season like this, I want people on this board who want to fire Whiz.

I may not agree, but after a season like that, it is more than reasonable to want to read into things from a different perspective.

That season was a failure on a lot of levels. There was more bad things happening than good things happening for a vast majority of the time.

Well, the good news is we've had people on this board who wanted to fire Whiz well before this season started. Look around the league. The best way to get better is to fire your head coach every time you follow up a couple of good years with a bad year.

We've got problems, it's a real comfort to know some people here have all the answers. Myself, I'm still struggling with the questions.

Steve