Call your shot, who are we drafting...

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How many weapons do you need? If you can only win by massively superior force you have to question if you have the right General.

I question whether we have the right general. But we also only have one weapon that’s produced at a highly within the last year. Shout about HOF all you want but in a league of what have you done for me lately none of the other “weapons” scare anyone.

 

[AZman5103]

Keim makes another great trade...and we move up to #7 for Jamar Chase who ends up going after Smith.

We have to trade #16, #49 and a 3rd next year...but IMO we get the best WR of the last 2 years, and we put him in a spot to be a 1A alongside Hopkins.

Chase IMO is an ELITE WR prospect. His short area burst and change of direction are world class, and he is tough. I view him as a faster, quicker, Anquan Boldin.

 

[DVontel]

What’s a better duo:

AVT/Asante Samuel Jr

or

Greg Newsome/Wyatt Davis?

 

[Solar7]

but we haven’t continually “dumped money” into weapons. Kyler has only played 2 years and Hopkins is really only the big move we’ve made on offense.

we need speed on offense we don’t have anyone that can take the top off. We need a RB a legit number 1 we need a TE.

Talent matters in the NFL.

I mean, it doesn't matter that we invested assets into it as a combination of picks the year before he was drafted and the year he was drafted, but in the past three years we have invested three 2nds (Kirk, Isabella, Hopkins), two 4ths (Butler and Hopkins), one 5th (Johnson), and $54 million (Hopkins) into the wide receiver position alone, and now we're talking about using a #1 because somehow that wasn't enough. That's investment.

What we've done at RB wasn't spectacular, but in that same time frame we've paid David Johnson $39M, spent a 4th on Edmonds, traded a 6th for Drake, paid Drake $8M on the franchise tag, and spent a 7th on Eno Benjamin and none have proven to be the guy. Those are still investments.

I still want a top RB and agree that TE needs to improve, but Kyler will eventually have to make some later round picks better in his career.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's the HC. There are two sides to the ball and you need both to win games.

I just watched Kyler on GMFB. He was asked "Do you have input in the draft? Are you on to Steve Keim saying "Get me this wide receiver" or "I love this running back"?" (I'm paraphrasing) and Kyler's answer was,

"If anything it's the opposite. I know how important it is to get defensive stops".

Kyler can see what Kliff can't. The best weapon we can give Kyler is to take away the other teams weapons.

All of your argument is conjecture we have no idea what kliff says about defensive personnel.

 

[Solar7]

You mean like how Indy relied on Manning? Oh wait, he had two first round wrs and a first round rb.

Well, Reggie Wayne wasn't even on the team until four years into Manning's career, and he and Harrison only had 3-4 years of overlapping productivity. Edgerrin James didn't even stick around to win the Super Bowl.

Manning was blessed with a lot of weapons over the years, but also made the most out of other guys and other positions. He really maximized their potential. For every Manning who had everything to work with, there's 3 Brady, Rodgers, Brees who didn't always have that but still made the team around them Super Bowl worthy and perennial playoff teams.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What’s a better duo:

AVT/Asante Samuel Jr

or

Greg Newsome/Wyatt Davis?

AVT/Asante

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I mean, it doesn't matter that we invested assets into it as a combination of picks the year before he was drafted and the year he was drafted, but in the past three years we have invested three 2nds (Kirk, Isabella, Hopkins), two 4ths (Butler and Hopkins), one 5th (Johnson), and $54 million (Hopkins) into the wide receiver position alone, and now we're talking about using a #1 because somehow that wasn't enough. That's investment.

What we've done at RB wasn't spectacular, but in that same time frame we've paid David Johnson $39M, spent a 4th on Edmonds, traded a 6th for Drake, paid Drake $8M on the franchise tag, and spent a 7th on Eno Benjamin and none have proven to be the guy. Those are still investments.

I still want a top RB and agree that TE needs to improve, but Kyler will eventually have to make some later round picks better in his career.

Sunk costs are sunk costs. Talent is talent. The two shouldn’t be confused or combined for analysis (unless it’s the analysis used to fire keim).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, Reggie Wayne wasn't even on the team until four years into Manning's career, and he and Harrison only had 3-4 years of overlapping productivity. Edgerrin James didn't even stick around to win the Super Bowl.

Manning was blessed with a lot of weapons over the years, but also made the most out of other guys and other positions. He really maximized their potential. For every Manning who had everything to work with, there's 3 Brady, Rodgers, Brees who didn't always have that but still made the team around them Super Bowl worthy and perennial playoff teams.

Again you’re conflating draft position with talent. Rodgers has one of the best receivers in the nfl and a top rb. So he’s already got one more weapon than kyler. Brees has always had some combination of top wr, top te, top rb. More than kyler has had. Brady is a good example, but that makes him the exception, not manning.

 

[TheCardFan]

We obviously want one of the top CB's to fall to us but if that doesn't happen...I think we take Najee Harris.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, Reggie Wayne wasn't even on the team until four years into Manning's career, and he and Harrison only had 3-4 years of overlapping productivity. Edgerrin James didn't even stick around to win the Super Bowl.

Manning was blessed with a lot of weapons over the years, but also made the most out of other guys and other positions. He really maximized their potential. For every Manning who had everything to work with, there's 3 Brady, Rodgers, Brees who didn't always have that but still made the team around them Super Bowl worthy and perennial playoff teams.

it’s really hard to take any argument you make seriously when your command of facts are so woefully off. Peyton and Harrison only had 3-4 years of productivity together? They played from 1998-2006 together and every year Harrison put up gonzo stats. Oh wait... you’re saying Manning only had two HOF WRs for only 3-4 years? Lol. Boo hoo. He was so desperate for weapons!

Oh, wait, you also neglect to mention that Peyton also joined a team with HOFer Marshall Faulk on it. And then later All-Pro Edgerrin James. And always had GREAT offensive lines.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Is it weird I want Freiermuth in round 2 more than I care who we draft in round ?

 

[Stout]

Keim makes another great trade...and we move up to #7 for Jamar Chase who ends up going after Smith.

We have to trade #16, #49 and a 3rd next year...but IMO we get the best WR of the last 2 years, and we put him in a spot to be a 1A alongside Hopkins.

Chase IMO is an ELITE WR prospect. His short area burst and change of direction are world class, and he is tough. I view him as a faster, quicker, Anquan Boldin.

Yeah, you're giving up more than that to trade up so far.

 

[Stout]

Is it weird I want Freiermuth in round 2 more than I care who we draft in round ?

This is a big vote of confidence for the kid coming from a Buckeyes fan.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I'm sticking with my Mock:

C. Farley in the 1st
R. Moore in the 2nd

 

[Shane]

I'm sticking with my Mock:

C. Farley in the 1st
R. Moore in the 2nd

which Moore

 

[MadCardDisease]

which Moore

Rondale

 

[Shane]

Rondale

love that kid his interview yesterday on nfl network was stelllar

 

[BritCard]

I question whether we have the right general. But we also only have one weapon that’s produced at a highly within the last year. Shout about HOF all you want but in a league of what have you done for me lately none of the other “weapons” scare anyone.

They wouldn't when the general can't aim for crap. I've already spoken about how badly Kliff misuses Kirk and how is scheme as a whole puts everything on the players to win 1 on 1.

And he has Green now too. A potential HOF WR who I don't believe is done after one down year.

Kliff has to make best use of what he has. There are bigger needs.

 

[Solar7]

it’s really hard to take any argument you make seriously when your command of facts are so woefully off. Peyton and Harrison only had 3-4 years of productivity together? They played from 1998-2006 together and every year Harrison put up gonzo stats. Oh wait... you’re saying Manning only had two HOF WRs for only 3-4 years? Lol. Boo hoo. He was so desperate for weapons!

Oh, wait, you also neglect to mention that Peyton also joined a team with HOFer Marshall Faulk on it. And then later All-Pro Edgerrin James. And always had GREAT offensive lines.

Ack, sorry, I meant to talk about the Harrison and Reggie Wayne overlap in terms of Peyton having 1st round WRs.

Point still is, Peyton also made lesser players around him pretty damn good, and that can be seen in the one year they missed him with the neck injury.

 

[BritCard]

What’s a better duo:

AVT/Asante Samuel Jr

or

Greg Newsome/Wyatt Davis?

Personally. Newsome/Davis.

 

[BritCard]

All of your argument is conjecture we have no idea what kliff says about defensive personnel.

I'm commenting on the never ending media narrative that "Kliff wants more weapons for Kyler"

 

[BritCard]

Again you’re conflating draft position with talent. Rodgers has one of the best receivers in the nfl and a top rb. So he’s already got one more weapon than kyler. Brees has always had some combination of top wr, top te, top rb. More than kyler has had. Brady is a good example, but that makes him the exception, not manning.

Using the same measuring stick Kyler has two 1st round WRs, two 2nd round WRs, a 3rd round RB, a 4th round RB and a 2nd round TE.

Maybe we just need to use them better.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Is it weird I want Freiermuth in round 2 more than I care who we draft in round ?

Yes. But if he’s even 75% of the second coming of gronk I get it!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Using the same measuring stick Kyler has two 1st round WRs, two 2nd round WRs, a 3rd round RB, a 4th round RB and a 2nd round TE.

Maybe we just need to use them better.

Or maybe they didn’t warrant the selection or they’ve detiorated. Again, WHEN THEY WERE DRAFTED DOESNT MATTER IF YOU’RE DETERMINING IF THEY'RE TALENTED OR NOT. The argument is he is surrounded by talent and other QBs didn’t need that talent. I’m saying no, he isn’t surrounded by talent. He’s got a HOF receiver, an adequate 3rd receiver, and reclamation projects (green and Conner) and not-yets (Edmonds) and nada (TEs).