Cardinals @ Dbacks Series Thread

[Dude]

In the end he shut them down long enough after some hiccups to allow the offense to get after it, and gave them 6 2/3 innings after yesterday's marathon. If you're going to suck, at least suck good.

I think he will be ok. Give it all some time. I see this team getting better as we go.

 

[Iceman]

I'm down on Greinke, too, but his overall body of work is much more telling of the type of pitcher he is than <1 month of a season. He's an Ace that needs to find his groove.

Greinke is not used to being the number 1. He followed Kershaw last year and he had no pressure of being the ace of the staff. Now he is putting pressure on himself to live up to being the #1 and play to his contract. It is a different mindset now for him. Not making an excuse, but other teams always want to play harder or really push to beat the other teams #1. Especially when opposing players think he is overrated and overpaid now. Greinke knows that and is now pressing, IMO

I believe he will be just fine come his next start. Plus, when you have a team that can hit and put up runs like the Dbacks are right now, you should feel less pressure

 

[Bert]

Greinke is not used to being the number 1. He followed Kershaw last year and he had no pressure of being the ace of the staff. Now he is putting pressure on himself to live up to being the #1 and play to his contract. It is a different mindset now for him. Not making an excuse, but other teams always want to play harder or really push to beat the other teams #1. Especially when opposing players think he is overrated and overpaid now. Greinke knows that and is now pressing, IMO

I believe he will be just fine come his next start. Plus, when you have a team that can hit and put up runs like the Dbacks are right now, you should feel less pressure

The game yesterday was kindof weird too. I was there in the stands with my Dad. I mean, he didn't pitch well obviously, the 2 HR's I got nothin to excuse, but it really wasn't as bad as the stat line looked. I mean the first inning he didn't pitch poorly it was just kindof bad luck. He should have had a K but the ump called it a ball, that guy wound up getting a bloop hit and then Peralta missed the ball in RF,,, just like that it's 2-0. There was one other situation like that.

There Dbacks really should have had 3 or 4 errors on the scorecard yesterday but the decision makers were in a generous mood for hitters apparently.

So I mean yeah, not arguing with the critics, he didn't pitch like an ace last night, but the Cardinals are a damn good team and regardless of the 9 run inning (which was awesome) Zack settled down enough in middle innings after a frustrating start, where the game was still very much in doubt, long enough to get the win atleast. Plus the hit he got was HUGE and played a big role in that 9 run inning.

He was also having major issues with the Ump yesterday, they had lengthy conversations everytime he came up to bat.

Bottom line, we won. I'll take ugly wins all season. GODBACKS

PS: I'm FAR more concerned with Miller, and I really hope we see a solid start from him tonight. Greinke looks like a guy who has it, and will get it back. Miller just looks like a painful reminder of a blown 1st round pick.

 

[DWKB]

Grienke isn’t really having an unusual season so far outside of the fact that his HR% is outrageous. He is currently giving up 1.47 HR/9 (career total of 0.85) and has a HR/FB 13.5% (career total of 9.2%). His K/9 is lower than his career by about 1 per, but it’s that HR that really hurts his performance.

The question is, how the altitude and hitters eye of Chase have negatively affected him. Grienke succeeds with deception and location, not with overpowering stuff. More Greg Maddux, less Randy Johnson. Altitude can kill off speed rotation and missed location can have much less margin of error at our home park.

Looking at his small sample size numbers so far, he’s getting hit hardest on his non FB pitches. He’s expressed having trouble locating so far this season and the result seems to have been more middle-middle pitches with little movement. Boom, jump in HR.

All 5 HR were at home along with 8 more XBP vs 4 on the road. His ERA at home is 9.72 and on the road is 1.93 in an equivalent number of innings.
Greg Maddux was never really able to succeed in Chase throughout his 12 career starts. Grienke has been average at best in his career at Chase. There is serious evidence that Grienke will have trouble with his home ballpark throughout this contract.

I don’t think it’s as easy as Grienke isn’t used to being an ACE (he’s been one before many times), but maybe he just can’t be an ACE in AZ.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Grienke isn’t really having an unusual season so far outside of the fact that his HR% is outrageous. He is currently giving up 1.47 HR/9 (career total of 0.85) and has a HR/FB 13.5% (career total of 9.2%). His K/9 is lower than his career by about 1 per, but it’s that HR that really hurts his performance.

The question is, how the altitude and hitters eye of Chase have negatively affected him. Grienke succeeds with deception and location, not with overpowering stuff. More Greg Maddux, less Randy Johnson. Altitude can kill off speed rotation and missed location can have much less margin of error at our home park.

Looking at his small sample size numbers so far, he’s getting hit hardest on his non FB pitches. He’s expressed having trouble locating so far this season and the result seems to have been more middle-middle pitches with little movement. Boom, jump in HR.

All 5 HR were at home along with 8 more XBP vs 4 on the road. His ERA at home is 9.72 and on the road is 1.93 in an equivalent number of innings.
Greg Maddux was never really able to succeed in Chase throughout his 12 career starts. Grienke has been average at best in his career at Chase. There is serious evidence that Grienke will have trouble with his home ballpark throughout this contract.

I don’t think it’s as easy as Grienke isn’t used to being an ACE (he’s been one before many times), but maybe he just can’t be an ACE in AZ.

Perhaps... but, Zach hadn't allowed 7 runs in a game in over 4 years. He's done that TWICE this season!!!

 

[DWKB]

Perhaps... but, Zach hadn't allowed 7 runs in a game in over 4 years. He's done that TWICE this season!!!

Yeah, but that's just a symptom. What's the disease?

 

[BC867]

Yeah, but that's just a symptom. What's the disease?

Well, unless there is something physically wrong with Greinke, here are some possibilities.

-- This is his first shot at being the lead and, so far, he is not handling it well.

-- We've read that he has had emotional problems, so perhaps he's put too much pressure on himself. Especially with our #3 and #5 starters performing better than he.

-- As has been posted, Chase Field is not an easy home park in which to pitch half of your games.

I think that everyone, including himself, expected that last night's game vs. St. Louis would be the turning point, but it wasn't.

Time will tell whether he and the coaches can find that magical path expected of him.

 

[DWKB]

Well, unless there is something physically wrong with Greinke, here are some possibilities.

-- This is his first shot at being the lead and, so far, he is not handling it well.

-- We've read that he has had emotional problems, so perhaps he's put too much pressure on himself. Especially with our #3 and #5 starters performing better than he.

-- As has been posted, Chase Field is not an easy home park in which to pitch half of your games.

I think that everyone, including himself, expected that last night's game vs. St. Louis would be the turning point, but it wasn't.

Time will tell whether he and the coaches can find that magical path expected of him.

Mechanical issues are certainly a possibility. Pitching is hard.

As I said earlier he's been the lead pitcher before on other teams.

I don't think going to emotional/mental issues is fair to the players or their performance issues. It's also an impossible to prove diagnosis as it's never made public and when it is its tinged with gossip.

 

[Bert]

Shelby had pitched so well, but losing his command in the 5th...


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[Bert]

Owings.... Smh


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[Dude]

I thought he had that.

 

[Bert]

Oh jeez. Miller falls apart in the 5th. The D once again, has not helped. 5-0 cardinals


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[GatorAZ]

Dude is gonna single-handedly ruin our bullpen.

 

[Dude]

Dude is gonna single-handedly ruin our bullpen.

No I wont.

Me think Miller takes a lot of Miller to watch.

 

[frankeegee1]

Can't give them extra outs.

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[TJ]

Thinking that the Braves LOVE to trade with the D-Backs these days....

 

[AZ Native]

Man, Martinez pitched great for 8 innings. To bad we couldn't have got him out sooner. 2 homers in the ninth. Too little too late.

 

[devilalum]

Yeah, but that's just a symptom. What's the disease?

Chase Field?

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[DWKB]

Chase Field?

sent from a fone

As good a theory as any right now I believe, but with the location issues I wouldn't put it past mechanics.

 

[DWKB]

Thinking that the Braves LOVE to trade with the D-Backs these days....

Aaron Blair in his MLB debut gave up 3 in 5.1 IP. Made it through 5 with only 1 ER.

Only had 1 K though.

 

[overseascardfan]

Hard to win when your pitching staff gives up that many runs.

 

[Dback Jon]

Hard to win when your pitching staff gives up that many runs.

Yup - unless the offense puts up a nine-spot in one inning like they did Monday

 

[Ronin]

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[Dback Jon]

Let's see what Peralta can do in CF - cause Owings was not getting it done.

 

[BC867]

Owings.... Smh

I cannot understand why any fielder would slide to catch a ball, unless to stop him from hitting a wall or fence. You slide to slow down (such as a runner overrunning a base), not to catch up with a ball. And you don't have control of catching a ball while on your back.

Diving to make a catch is a different story, because you are extending yourself at the last minute and leaning forward rather than backward.

If Owings had not gone into a slide, he would have reached the ball in the air. And Shelby Miller might have continued pitching well and not come apart.

I wish coaches stressed this with their ballplayers in Spring Training rather than punishing them during the season (Owings has been benched tonight.) If they did, and he disregarded it, he should be punished. Whether playing SS, 2B or CF.