Cards get Adrian Peterson in trade with New Orleans

[MadCardDisease]

I haven't said a thing about tanking.

I was referencing other posters there who think we should have shut things down.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Actually, a lot of us thought it would be a down year, and wondered why we were going for an ill-fated "all in" run. Before the season.

We didn’t even go all in. We let all of our talented FAs walk, and either didn’t replace or replaced them with old guys, all while never addressing glaring holes like WR from the previous season.

Last offseason was pretty much a punt, not going for it.

 

[Solar7]

I have no problem with moving up in the draft to get a player that the Cardinals really like. My issue is the who idea of tanking for a better draft pick.

However the idea of going to a player like Larry Fitzgerald and asking him to drop a few balls so that the Cardinals might get a better draft pick the following year is disgusting in my mind. Who would do that?

As a season ticket holder for 21 years the idea of going to a game where the team wasn't trying to win is repulsive to me. Why would I go spend my time an money to see a team roll over and play dead. DISGUSTING!

I can't believe that people were OK with tanking 4 games into a season. Even if the Cardinals lost the said 2 games that AP helped to win, would that be enough?

Did the Rams tank their season so they could land a top QB. No they won 3 of their last 4 games to finish the season strong at 7-9. Who did they end up drafting the next year? Their QBOF.

Did the Eagles tank their season in the same year? No they won their final game of the season against the Giants to go 7-9. Who did they draft the following year? Their QBOF.

Would tanking the last game or two games given the Rams or Eagles an opportunity to draft one of those two QBs. Most likely not.

If the Cardinals want a top QB they will have to spend some draft capital to do so. Tanking isn't the answer though!

Agreed here for the most part - I pay money to go to the games and expect to see a competitive product. Just like I wouldn't buy a new sink that wouldn't work for another year, I won't buy tickets for a team not giving it their all to be competitive.

However, that doesn't mean that at a certain time of the year, you sometimes do have to accept defeat and maybe take a look at younger guys, rather than trying to squeeze out a final couple of wins.

One more "however" though, I can see why this team would give it their all to give Arians/Fitz/Palmer/the older coaching staff one more chance at winning some games, even if that just means a relatively meaningless milestone of making BA the winningest coach in franchise history.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Agreed here for the most part - I pay money to go to the games and expect to see a competitive product. Just like I wouldn't buy a new sink that wouldn't work for another year, I won't buy tickets for a team not giving it their all to be competitive.

However, that doesn't mean that at a certain time of the year, you sometimes do have to accept defeat and maybe take a look at younger guys, rather than trying to squeeze out a final couple of wins.

One more "however" though, I can see why this team would give it their all to give Arians/Fitz/Palmer/the older coaching staff one more chance at winning some games, even if that just means a relatively meaningless milestone of making BA the winningest coach in franchise history.

If that was the case, they should have actually given it their all last offseason when they sat on their hands and did next to nothing to improve the team last offseason.

 

[MadCardDisease]

If that was the case, they should have actually given it their all last offseason when they sat on their hands and did next to nothing to improve the team last offseason.

The only thing I fault the Cardinals for last offseason was not getting rid of Amos Jones.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The only thing I fault the Cardinals for last offseason was not getting rid of Amos Jones.

Doing nothing at WR didn’t bother you? What about sticking with Bethel/Willians at CB, picking up Williams as a complete after thought and burying him on the bench for six games into the season?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Doing nothing at WR didn’t bother you? What about sticking with Bethel/Willians at CB, picking up Williams as a complete after thought and burying him on the bench for six games into the season?

I was very much against keeping Bethel at his salary. Then they got him to take a pay cut and I was fine with him on the roster. I had zero faith in Williams. Bringing in Tramon was the Cardinals being proactive to solve that problem. They also got Branch to take a pay cut.

I had my concerns at WR as well. The Cardinals tried to address that with the 3rd pick in the draft on Chad Williams. He has yet to make an impact. I think they reached on him that early but they were trying to address the position.

I guess I also had issues giving such a large contract to Jermaine Gresham. I think Keim panicked with the way the TE market was playing out.

So yes I had my concerns but to say they sat on their hands is just flat out wrong. They signed Chandler Jones long term. They moved up to select Budda Baker. They tried to shore up special teams by bringing in a new kicker, punter and drafted a returner.

But yeah they totally sat on their hands and did nothing.

 

[Chopper0080]

Im Schutd, and I endorse this, too. But Ouchie is arguing the idea that purposeful tanking can be part of that equation. Im arguing it can't be, based on human spirit, competitiveness, and integrity.

Go all in, for sure, but some sort of "suck for luck" campaign, instead of trying to continue to push forward for a win, while in the midst of the season is not something I think is logical, though I completely understand the validity of the desire for it.

Trading for Peterson may have been a bad football move, but the argument should be that the FO spent draft capital for a player who is obviously near the end of his career and it didnt do ENOUGH to help with the current season. The end result certainly affects the next season, but what Im saying is the decision to go after AP had NOTHING to do with next season, and I would never expect a FO to make or not make a move with that as their first and foremost consideration.

Only fans do that. Me included.

How does not trading for Adrian Peterson = tanking?

Frankly, it doesn't. If anyone watched the first few weeks of the season and thought, wow, all we need is AP to be a contender, then they are stupid. This was a way by the front office to shake some keys and distract the fans from realizing that this roster has serious issues. The sold to the fans that the AP move was because they were committed to winning when it was a hope that no one would wonder why we still have a terrible offensive line and no QB in 2018 after 5 years of the regime. Obviously, some people bought it.

 

[Jetstream Green]

How does not trading for Adrian Peterson = tanking?

Frankly, it doesn't. If anyone watched the first few weeks of the season and thought, wow, all we need is AP to be a contender, then they are stupid. This was a way by the front office to shake some keys and distract the fans from realizing that this roster has serious issues. The sold to the fans that the AP move was because they were committed to winning when it was a hope that no one would wonder why we still have a terrible offensive line and no QB in 2018 after 5 years of the regime. Obviously, some people bought it.

I still think whether one likes Peterson or not, he did not hurt our salary cap and I am not going to cry over the late round pick... we needed something to entertain us and have some fun with a few heated discussions with that QB situation

 

[Chopper0080]

I still think whether one likes Peterson or not, he did not hurt our salary cap and I am not going to cry over the late round pick... we needed something to entertain us and have some fun with a few heated discussions with that QB situation

So, again, if the team's goal is to give up future assets to be mediocre, then the move was successful. But let's not pretend it was anything more than that. For me, that is something I would not do or support.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I was very much against keeping Bethel at his salary. Then they got him to take a pay cut and I was fine with him on the roster. I had zero faith in Williams. Bringing in Tramon was the Cardinals being proactive to solve that problem. They also got Branch to take a pay cut.

I had my concerns at WR as well. The Cardinals tried to address that with the 3rd pick in the draft on Chad Williams. He has yet to make an impact. I think they reached on him that early but they were trying to address the position.

I guess I also had issues giving such a large contract to Jermaine Gresham. I think Keim panicked with the way the TE market was playing out.

So yes I had my concerns but to say they sat on their hands is just flat out wrong. They signed Chandler Jones long term. They moved up to select Budda Baker. They tried to shore up special teams by bringing in a new kicker, punter and drafted a returner.

But yeah they totally sat on their hands and did nothing.

Making a HUGE 3rd round reach for a raw WR that wouldn’t be expected to make an impact and slashing your starting CB’s salary to address the gaping holes at WR and CB don’t meet my standards of “going all in”. Neither is picking up Williams off the scrap heap, especially because he wasn’t even in the team’s plans, parked on the bench for the first quarter of the season. They lucked into having him.

I’ll give you they addressed kicker and punter, but to say they went all in and addressed an awful WR core and the second corner is laughable.

 

[schutd]

How does not trading for Adrian Peterson = tanking?

Frankly, it doesn't. If anyone watched the first few weeks of the season and thought, wow, all we need is AP to be a contender, then they are stupid. This was a way by the front office to shake some keys and distract the fans from realizing that this roster has serious issues. The sold to the fans that the AP move was because they were committed to winning when it was a hope that no one would wonder why we still have a terrible offensive line and no QB in 2018 after 5 years of the regime. Obviously, some people bought it.

Or, we didnt have a starting caliber RB without DJ, so getting AP addressed that. Ws and Ls and planning for the future be damned. I dont know. My point is, I can't imagine an FO NOT addressing a need solely with the mindset that it may result in a couple more wins therefore screwing up next year. I think to expect a personnel guy to do his job that way is stupid.

 

[Solar7]

Or, we didnt have a starting caliber RB without DJ, so getting AP addressed that. Ws and Ls and planning for the future be damned. I dont know. My point is, I can't imagine an FO NOT addressing a need solely with the mindset that it may result in a couple more wins therefore screwing up next year. I think to expect a personnel guy to do his job that way is stupid.

This is valid too. If I went to my boss halfway through the year and said I wasn’t going to launch any new campaigns so we can save the money for next year, I’d be out of a job.

 

[Stout]

Making a HUGE 3rd round reach for a raw WR that wouldn’t be expected to make an impact and slashing your starting CB’s salary to address the gaping holes at WR and CB don’t meet my standards of “going all in”. Neither is picking up Williams off the scrap heap, especially because he wasn’t even in the team’s plans, parked on the bench for the first quarter of the season. They lucked into having him.

I’ll give you they addressed kicker and punter, but to say they went all in and addressed an awful WR core and the second corner is laughable.

Yep. They kept SAYING they were all in, that they were taking one more shot, but the activity didn't back it up..

 

[MadCardDisease]

Making a HUGE 3rd round reach for a raw WR that wouldn’t be expected to make an impact and slashing your starting CB’s salary to address the gaping holes at WR and CB don’t meet my standards of “going all in”. Neither is picking up Williams off the scrap heap, especially because he wasn’t even in the team’s plans, parked on the bench for the first quarter of the season. They lucked into having him.

I’ll give you they addressed kicker and punter, but to say they went all in and addressed an awful WR core and the second corner is laughable.

It wasn't untill August that the WR group really started to be a concern. Up until then it was considered one of the stronger units on the team. But then John Brown never could get healthy. JJ Nelson regressed and couldn't hang onto a ball. Chad Williams still needed to learn behind Fitz. I believe that the Coaches were expecting much more from this group heading into the preseason. The Cardinals couldn't afford a name FA WR and the only WRs worthy of a 1st round pick were gone before the Cardinals first pick.

Tramon Williams was signed July 30th. I think he did a decent job as the #2 CB when he took over in week 6. I blame the coaches for not starting him earlier.

 

[Jetstream Green]

So, again, if the team's goal is to give up future assets to be mediocre, then the move was successful. But let's not pretend it was anything more than that. For me, that is something I would not do or support.

I did not say that the franchise got him for entertainment value and honestly think Arians thought he gave him a chance to win, as well as Keim. That is why they attained him and as a fan looking back, he has not damaged the franchise at all unlike say the Kevin Kolb trade

 

[Mitch]

The tantalizing this is the Saints were going to release AP...if it cost the Cardinals 2 6th round picks...that's a lot when he could have been signed for less money and no lost draft picks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wrong again, I believe you build the team in the draft, what football fan wouldn't? I believe you take care of your needs in free agency and draft the BPAs.

What I place little value in is the belief that a better pick is a guaranteed stud. As I said before you're more likely to draft a bust than to draft a pro-bowler.

So far no one has used the word “guaranteed” except you just now. Do you want to make the argument that you don’t have a better shot at a more talented player with the #1 pick than a mid-round pick? Because THAT’S the argument being discussed.

 

[Harry]

The tantalizing this is the Saints were going to release AP...if it cost the Cardinals 2 6th round picks...that's a lot when he could have been signed for less money and no lost draft picks.

I don’t see where the second sixth comes from. He didn’t play enough to likely up the variable. I’d keep AP at his price. With a weak receiving corps and a run first offense there should be enough carries to keep AP happy. Between DJ & AP if they can fix the line they’ll wear done quite a few teams and keep the D fresh. Could use some 2 back sets.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe YOU believed that, but the majority of people on this board predicted records above .500 back in the preseason, and heck, even in JANUARY it seemed a majority of the players here believed Arians would be back and wanted him back. And even after he retired, some people were making a case for keeping the defensive staff.

So to say that "we all knew back in august our staff was on the way out" is patently false.

...dbs

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Maybe you should listen to me more. In regards to the cardinals, historically, I’ve been right more often than “the majority of people on this board.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Im Schutd, and I endorse this, too. But Ouchie is arguing the idea that purposeful tanking can be part of that equation. Im arguing it can't be, based on human spirit, competitiveness, and integrity.

Go all in, for sure, but some sort of "suck for luck" campaign, instead of trying to continue to push forward for a win, while in the midst of the season is not something I think is logical, though I completely understand the validity of the desire for it.

Trading for Peterson may have been a bad football move, but the argument should be that the FO spent draft capital for a player who is obviously near the end of his career and it didnt do ENOUGH to help with the current season. The end result certainly affects the next season, but what Im saying is the decision to go after AP had NOTHING to do with next season, and I would never expect a FO to make or not make a move with that as their first and foremost consideration.

Only fans do that. Me included.

You all misunderstand my concept of a tank. You cannot tell a coach and players to lose. In any sport. But leadership CAN demand that youth be served, which more often than not, will result in losses. Not chasing aging rb’s with the hopes of propping up a lost season is another way leadership can ensure avoidance of meaningless wins in a lost season to pursue a greater offseason prize.

 

[daves]

Maybe you should listen to me more. In regards to the cardinals, historically, I’ve been right more often than “the majority of people on this board.”

I wasn't commenting on whether or not you were right, simply pointing out the absurdity of the claim that "we all knew back in august our staff was on the way out".

...dbs

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was very much against keeping Bethel at his salary. Then they got him to take a pay cut and I was fine with him on the roster. I had zero faith in Williams. Bringing in Tramon was the Cardinals being proactive to solve that problem. They also got Branch to take a pay cut.

I had my concerns at WR as well. The Cardinals tried to address that with the 3rd pick in the draft on Chad Williams. He has yet to make an impact. I think they reached on him that early but they were trying to address the position.

I guess I also had issues giving such a large contract to Jermaine Gresham. I think Keim panicked with the way the TE market was playing out.

So yes I had my concerns but to say they sat on their hands is just flat out wrong. They signed Chandler Jones long term. They moved up to select Budda Baker. They tried to shore up special teams by bringing in a new kicker, punter and drafted a returner.

But yeah they totally sat on their hands and did nothing.

Hahahahhaaaaa!

So you’re touting:

Relying on a rookie wr taking an ENORMOUS step up from small school competition in 3rd round,

Resigning one of their own free agents in jones,

Signing an ancient cb who they didn’t intend on relying on considering he was on the bench for the first 6 games,

Moving up in a draft to get a guy who only impacted special teams this year,

And a new ancient kicker and punter

As going for the brass ring?!? Seriously?!? I can only laugh at that list. Particularly in light of them watching Calais, both safeties leave. I think you might need a definition for “sarcasm.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wasn't commenting on whether or not you were right, simply pointing out the absurdity of the claim that "we all knew back in august our staff was on the way out".

...dbs

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Fair. This board loves its hyperbole. That said, many of us either knew or thought there was a strong possibility.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Hahahahhaaaaa!

So you’re touting:

Relying on a rookie wr taking an ENORMOUS step up from small school competition in 3rd round,

Resigning one of their own free agents in jones,

Signing an ancient cb who they didn’t intend on relying on considering he was on the bench for the first 6 games,

Moving up in a draft to get a guy who only impacted special teams this year,

And a new ancient kicker and punter

As going for the brass ring?!? Seriously?!? I can only laugh at that list. Particularly in light of them watching Calais, both safeties leave. I think you might need a definition for “sarcasm.”

Let me remind you that the Cardinals had limited cap space since you clearly don't remember. Please explain to me how you would pay for Calais and the two safeties without blowing up the cap? Where would that extra $29M come from?