Cards suspend quarterback reality for another year

azdad1978

Championship!!!!
Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Posts
14,982
Reaction score
50
Location
ordinance 2257
John Gambadoro
Special for azcentral.com
Mar. 14, 2005 09:50 AM

In the 17 years the Cardinals have spent in Arizona, they have never had a franchise quarterback. Plain and simple, they have failed to lure a dominant player at the most important position on the field since they arrived in the desert in 1988.

What a shame. Because no matter how good a team's defense is, having a great signal caller who can manage a game is still key to winning in the NFL.



How organizations get that player differ from team to team. But the majority of dominant teams in the NFL have drafted and developed their quarterbacks. Of the 12-playoff teams from this past season, nine went the route of drafting their quarterbacks. The Patriots (Tom Brady), Jets (Chad Pennington), Steelers (Ben Roethlisberger), Chargers (Drew Brees) and Colts (Peyton Manning) in the AFC used the draft to solidify the quarterback spot. The Broncos' Jake Plummer was the only AFC playoff quarterback to not be drafted by his team. In the NFC the Eagles (Donovan McNabb), Falcons (Michael Vick), Packers (Brett Favre) and Vikings (Daunte Culpepper) all drafted their starter while Seattle's Matt Hasselback and the Rams' Marc Bulger were obtained via trade and free agency.

Which leads us to the Cardinals' signing of two-time MVP Kurt Warner, whom the Cardinals inked to a one-year contract in hopes that he'll regain his status as one of the league's premier quarterbacks. For various reasons, including injury and lack of performance, Warner has struggled the last three seasons, throwing for a combined 10 touchdown passes with 16 interceptions. A far cry from the 98 touchdown passes he had thrown the previous three seasons.

Which is why he was available. The reality of the NFL is, great quarterbacks don't become available via free agency. A team with a solid quarterback keeps that player. Great ones are hard to find and teams have almost always locked up a quarterback who has proven himself in the league. So the likes of Manning, Brees and Vick sign deals to remain where they are and never get to the open market. And with teams' ability to slap a franchise tag on top players, even a quarterback who wants to test the market may not be able to.

That's why only quarterbacks who are on the downside of their careers, who are aging or ineffective, hit the open market. Teams like Arizona get to choose from these slim pickings: Warner, Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson and Jay Fiedler. And they hope to catch lightning in a bottle. Hope that a change of scenery will work. Hope that their new acquisition will somehow find his fountain of youth and party like it's 1999. The truth is, you can put the names of the free-agent quarterbacks in a hat, choose one, and that player will most likely do the same job as any of the others. Is Warner at this point in his career a better option than Garcia? Or Johnson? Maybe, but more than likely, they are all average quarterbacks who may help a team improve a little but not take it over the top.

Unless Warner is the exception to the rule, the Cardinals will still be searching for their quarterback of the future. The have passed on Byron Leftwich and Roethlisberger in each of the past two drafts. And they will be passing on quarterbacks next month. Somewhere in the future they are going to have to spend a first-round pick on a quarterback and play the game the way most successful teams do.

For now Warner will have to do. The Cardinals were not wrong in signing him. Their quarterback situation was unsettled. Unfortunately for the redbirds, they still don't know what they have in Josh McCown, who started 13 games last season. McCown neither solidified his status as the quarterback of the future nor warranted being shipped out of town. He may end up being a good quarterback. But the Cardinals need to win now. They are heading into a new stadium in 2006 and need to justify the huge ticket price increase that you can bet will be coming.

Denny Green's first year is over and with it goes the leniency given to a first-year coach from the fans and media. Green was in no position to leave McCown with the job and he hopes that his initial thoughts on McCown were right. So in comes Warner. A big name who has a whole lot of excuses for his past struggles, from bad snaps by the center to lack of timing with the receivers that forced him to hold on to the ball too long and getting sacked. Warner shrugs off suggestions that a concussion has affected his timing and decision-making and that a hand injury affected the way he holds onto the ball. He is confident that he can again be among the elite quarterbacks.

Just what is Warner getting himself into in Arizona? A team that finally seems to be moving in the right direction under Green, but one whose past has been a graveyard for quarterbacks. The names seem endless. The organization has tried Neil Lomax, Gary Hogeboom, Chris Chandler, Timm Rosenbach, Steve Buerlein, Dave Krieg, Boomer Esiason, Dave Brown, Jake Plummer, Jeff Blake and Josh McCown. None of them have had success.

The bigger question is, what is expected of Warner? While his best days appear to be behind him he could have enough left to help Green take the next step. With the additions of Warner, Oliver Ross, Robert Griffith and Chike Okeafor, the Cardinals have upgraded four positions. If the team has a successful draft and somehow finds a top-tier running back, it could go from a 6-10 season to an eight or nine-win season and possibly earn a playoff berth. Warner came to Arizona because it is here that he has the best chance to start. McCown's lack of experience and success makes it a certainty that Warner will start.

So while Warner will likely never again throw for 40 touchdown passes in a season, he may not need to in order to justify his signing. If he cuts down on his fumbles and takes fewer sacks, he could help Arizona be competitive. And with wide receivers Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald, he will have much better talent to throw to than his last stint in New York with the Giants.

Warner could land an extended stay if he does what Green expects of him. But more than likely he is just keeping the seat warm until Arizona realizes the best way to land a franchise quarterback is to draft one.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats/gambo/0314rant.html
 

Scott MS

Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Posts
4,144
Reaction score
15
I e-mailed that clown regarding his error that Favre was drafted by the Packers. He was drafted in the second round by Atlanta and then traded to Green Bay for a 1st round draft choice.



.
 
Last edited:

NEZCardsfan

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Posts
9,388
Reaction score
4
Initially, I wasn't too thrilled with Warner. Until I looked at it this way: BARE MINIMUM, HE'S BETTER THAN KING!!
I don't know what else we could have done. At the minimum we needed somebody more experienced behind Josh. The draft QBs aren't all that great. We didn't trade for Brees, and plus nobody knows if he is great or a one year wonder.

I'm glad this is a one year deal. We retain some flexibility with this situation going into next year then!!
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,459
Reaction score
7,624
The writer should know what he is talking about before he actually goes to print with it.GB TRADED for Favre from Atlanta.Plus he seems to act like NE knew Brady was a stud with their late round pick of him.Why can't Navarre be successful then? THe author gets a :stupid: .
 

vince56

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 15, 2002
Posts
9,075
Reaction score
2,289
Location
Arizona
azdad1978 said:
Jake Plummer was the only AFC playoff quarterback to not be drafted by his team. In the NFC the Eagles (Donovan McNabb), Falcons (Michael Vick), Packers (Brett Favre) and Vikings (Daunte Culpepper) all drafted their starter while Seattle's Matt Hasselback and the Rams' Marc Bulger were obtained via trade and free agency.

Favre was drafted by the Falcons. Nice try, hack.
 

Scott MS

Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Posts
4,144
Reaction score
15
What is this Gambo guy talking about? His argument makes little sense.

There are a bunch of QBs acquired in free agency and if you look at recent teams in the SUPER BOWL (not this year) with FA QBs, you have Delhomme in Carolina, Brad Johnson in Tampa Bay, Gannon in Oakland, Collins in N.Y., etc. His theory doesn't hold anything.
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
but one whose past has been a graveyard for quarterbacks. The names seem endless. The organization has tried Neil Lomax

So Neil Lomax was not a good QB? I wonder what constitutes good in Gambo's mind? That is if he has a mind.
 

cdex99

Registered
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Posts
290
Reaction score
0
40yearfan said:
So Neil Lomax was not a good QB? I wonder what constitutes good in Gambo's mind? That is if he has a mind.

I was going to point that out as well. Had he not been injured who knows? I hate opinion columnists. Especially those who work for a certain paper.
 

Dback Jon

Killer Snail
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
81,699
Reaction score
41,426
Location
Scottsdale
Gambo shows why he is a hack again.

As 40-year pointed out - we started in AZ with a great QB - Lomax. 7-4 when he went down for good.

We tried drafting a #1 - Rosenbauh (sp?) - he showed signs of greatness, but then was injured, and never the same.

We had a QB that was highly coveted - Plummer.


Idiot.
 

Azlen

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Apr 29, 2004
Posts
3,724
Reaction score
943
40yearfan said:
So Neil Lomax was not a good QB? I wonder what constitutes good in Gambo's mind?

While Lomax was a good QB, he did never get the team into the playoffs and for many that would have been a minimum requirement. There is a big "what if" in the season he was injured, but it is still a "what if".

Gambo may have been off in some of his details, but I still agree with the gist of what he is trying to say and that is if the Cardinals want to be a year after year contender they need to draft a dominant QB and have some stability at that position. There are many on this board that have been saying the exact same thing and it isn't the least bit idiotic.
 
Last edited:

LoyaltyisaCurse

IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Posts
53,873
Reaction score
19,668
Location
CA
Neil Lomax was a great QB! During his time with Cards, it was no his fault they were not that successful. First and foremost, the NFC East-at the time--was a rediculously tough conference (probably the toughest of any in the 80' and 90's) Dallas, NYG, and Redskins were at top of thier game.

Cards would have made playoffs in 84 if it wasn't for O'dona-jerk and Lomax had one of the best QB seasons in history of the league that year.

Lomax deserves way more credit than he gets...I understand naming off all the other bad QB's, but Lomax does not deserve to be lumped with the likes of the rest!
 

Twist18

Registered
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Posts
882
Reaction score
17
Location
Pocahontas , IL
Didnt Lomax take the Cards to the playoffs in the strike-shortened season and lost to powerhouse Green Bay?
 

seesred

Registered User
Joined
Jul 15, 2002
Posts
5,364
Reaction score
28
Location
section 8 row 10
WE have two kids right now that were drafted by us on our Roster. MCCown I believe was a third round pick and may yet lead a team to ?? Navarre is young only one year who knows what that will bring. We drafted Rosey in the supplemental draft and he would have been great but he got hurt. Then there was another kid who we draftted in the first round refused to play for us , turned out to be a head case and I believe ended his short NFL stay with Denver or Seattle.

Yes just like the IDIOT said we never do nothing about the QB position Lomax was a bum they all were bums. Heck I remember this guy calling Jake a Bum and he has been to the playoffs twice. If it wasn't for this kinda talk Jake might still be ??????, They don't pay enough money, they wont sign a running back, they are the worst team owners in the world of pro sports. This what he spits out. Go back to your Yankees please.

GBR
40
In Green we trust
 

stewdog1

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Posts
1,637
Reaction score
182
Let's throw another bone out there for poor Gambo.

Warner was not drafted by the Rams either or anybody. Green Bay picked him up as a rookie FA, and then the Rams ended up with him.

Lomax should have never been lumped with those other guys. Same with Rosenbach and Plummer.
 

PACardsFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
10,239
Reaction score
12,178
Location
York, PA
Twist18 said:
Didnt Lomax take the Cards to the playoffs in the strike-shortened season and lost to powerhouse Green Bay?
You are correct! Furthermore, Lomax was the best QB in Cardinal history. Definitely more talented than Hart, just didn't have enough talent around him.
 

MastersofCombat

Basketball Junkie
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Posts
720
Reaction score
0
Location
Phoenix
Neil Lomax was one of the most prolific passers in NCAA history during his four years at Portland State University (1977-80). At one time he held over 90 NCAA Division I-AA records and is still the only quarterback to throw seven TDs in one quarter! Portland State went on to win that night 105-0 over Delaware State with Lomax throwing for eight touchdowns and only playing the first half. In that same season he threw for more than 4,000 yards and 37 touchdowns and was MVP of the 1981 Senior Bowl and finished seventh in the Heisman Trophy balloting. (See PSU stats).

After graduating with a Bachelor of Science degree in Communications, he was drafted as the second quarterback overall by the St. Louis Cardinals in 1981. In his ten year NFL career Neil earned All-Pro honors in 1984 and 1987. His 82.7 career passing rating ranks him 7th all-time in the NFL and still holds almost every season and game passing record with the Cardinals. Because of chronic hip problems, Neil retired in 1990 and had total hip replacement surgery the following year.

If you wanted to say due to a nagging hip injury the PHOENIX CARDINALS never saw the best of Neil Lomax would be correct.
Although to lump him in with the other inept quarterbacks the Cardinals have had would be a gross misjudgement of the impact Neil Lomax had in his tenure with the Cardinals.
Jake Plummer plain and simple did something no Cardinal QB has done in 40+ years! Lead the team to the playoffs and win a playoff game. And while that 40 year stat is pathetic in its own right. I personally wouldnt stick Jake Plummer in that category until Denver plays out his contract.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,476
Reaction score
16,649
Location
San Antonio, Texas
If a player of Lomax's caliber was playing today

He would very likely be one of the top five QBs in the league. Bo Jackson is similar, no injury and damn his career would have been special. Lomax was a very good QB and the hacks will ignore this but fail to realize the fans don't. A lot of the Arizona writers will not have a job in a couple of years if Green is allowed to continue his plan.
 

Osbern61

Insomniac
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Posts
3,561
Reaction score
507
Location
Philadelphia
Actually, Lomax did come back after that injury that ultimately ended his career. I thought he was rushed in too quickly for the second Giants game, but when we played Philly at home on the Saturday following he looked pretty good. We still could have gotten into the playoffs at that point, but a blatant interference down near the goal line on Roy Green was ingnored and we lost by 6 I think. Eagles won the division, too.
 

Carpy

Newbie
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Posts
30
Reaction score
0
Location
Australia
Of the last 13 Super bowls, there were only two QBs who were drafted by their original team, that took their team to the title (Brady and Aikman).
 

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
6,039
Reaction score
1,671
Location
Expat in Kuala Lumpur
Scott MS said:
What is this Gambo guy talking about? His argument makes little sense.

There are a bunch of QBs acquired in free agency and if you look at recent teams in the SUPER BOWL (not this year) with FA QBs, you have Delhomme in Carolina, Brad Johnson in Tampa Bay, Gannon in Oakland, Collins in N.Y., etc. His theory doesn't hold anything.
Besides the Favre mistake, this is another thing that stands out when you read the article. How much does this guy know about the NFL? This article really shows how much he knows about the league, which is not enough to be allowed to write these articles IMO. I'm shocked that a sportswriter for a serious newspaper lack even basic knowledge about the league like this.

BTW, add Dilfer in Baltimore to the list...
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
azdad1978 said:
John Gambadoro
Special for azcentral.com
Mar. 14, 2005 09:50 AM

In the 17 years the Cardinals have spent in Arizona, they have never had a franchise quarterback. Plain and simple, they have failed to lure a dominant player at the most important position on the field since they arrived in the desert in 1988.

What a shame. Because no matter how good a team's defense is, having a great signal caller who can manage a game is still key to winning in the NFL.



How organizations get that player differ from team to team. But the majority of dominant teams in the NFL have drafted and developed their quarterbacks. Of the 12-playoff teams from this past season, nine went the route of drafting their quarterbacks. The Patriots (Tom Brady), Jets (Chad Pennington), Steelers (Ben Roethlisberger), Chargers (Drew Brees) and Colts (Peyton Manning) in the AFC used the draft to solidify the quarterback spot. The Broncos' Jake Plummer was the only AFC playoff quarterback to not be drafted by his team. In the NFC the Eagles (Donovan McNabb), Falcons (Michael Vick), Packers (Brett Favre) and Vikings (Daunte Culpepper) all drafted their starter while Seattle's Matt Hasselback and the Rams' Marc Bulger were obtained via trade and free agency.

Which leads us to the Cardinals' signing of two-time MVP Kurt Warner, whom the Cardinals inked to a one-year contract in hopes that he'll regain his status as one of the league's premier quarterbacks. For various reasons, including injury and lack of performance, Warner has struggled the last three seasons, throwing for a combined 10 touchdown passes with 16 interceptions. A far cry from the 98 touchdown passes he had thrown the previous three seasons.

Which is why he was available. The reality of the NFL is, great quarterbacks don't become available via free agency. A team with a solid quarterback keeps that player. Great ones are hard to find and teams have almost always locked up a quarterback who has proven himself in the league. So the likes of Manning, Brees and Vick sign deals to remain where they are and never get to the open market. And with teams' ability to slap a franchise tag on top players, even a quarterback who wants to test the market may not be able to.

That's why only quarterbacks who are on the downside of their careers, who are aging or ineffective, hit the open market. Teams like Arizona get to choose from these slim pickings: Warner, Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson and Jay Fiedler. And they hope to catch lightning in a bottle. Hope that a change of scenery will work. Hope that their new acquisition will somehow find his fountain of youth and party like it's 1999. The truth is, you can put the names of the free-agent quarterbacks in a hat, choose one, and that player will most likely do the same job as any of the others. Is Warner at this point in his career a better option than Garcia? Or Johnson? Maybe, but more than likely, they are all average quarterbacks who may help a team improve a little but not take it over the top.

Unless Warner is the exception to the rule, the Cardinals will still be searching for their quarterback of the future. The have passed on Byron Leftwich and Roethlisberger in each of the past two drafts. And they will be passing on quarterbacks next month. Somewhere in the future they are going to have to spend a first-round pick on a quarterback and play the game the way most successful teams do.

For now Warner will have to do. The Cardinals were not wrong in signing him. Their quarterback situation was unsettled. Unfortunately for the redbirds, they still don't know what they have in Josh McCown, who started 13 games last season. McCown neither solidified his status as the quarterback of the future nor warranted being shipped out of town. He may end up being a good quarterback. But the Cardinals need to win now. They are heading into a new stadium in 2006 and need to justify the huge ticket price increase that you can bet will be coming.

Denny Green's first year is over and with it goes the leniency given to a first-year coach from the fans and media. Green was in no position to leave McCown with the job and he hopes that his initial thoughts on McCown were right. So in comes Warner. A big name who has a whole lot of excuses for his past struggles, from bad snaps by the center to lack of timing with the receivers that forced him to hold on to the ball too long and getting sacked. Warner shrugs off suggestions that a concussion has affected his timing and decision-making and that a hand injury affected the way he holds onto the ball. He is confident that he can again be among the elite quarterbacks.

Just what is Warner getting himself into in Arizona? A team that finally seems to be moving in the right direction under Green, but one whose past has been a graveyard for quarterbacks. The names seem endless. The organization has tried Neil Lomax, Gary Hogeboom, Chris Chandler, Timm Rosenbach, Steve Buerlein, Dave Krieg, Boomer Esiason, Dave Brown, Jake Plummer, Jeff Blake and Josh McCown. None of them have had success.

The bigger question is, what is expected of Warner? While his best days appear to be behind him he could have enough left to help Green take the next step. With the additions of Warner, Oliver Ross, Robert Griffith and Chike Okeafor, the Cardinals have upgraded four positions. If the team has a successful draft and somehow finds a top-tier running back, it could go from a 6-10 season to an eight or nine-win season and possibly earn a playoff berth. Warner came to Arizona because it is here that he has the best chance to start. McCown's lack of experience and success makes it a certainty that Warner will start.

So while Warner will likely never again throw for 40 touchdown passes in a season, he may not need to in order to justify his signing. If he cuts down on his fumbles and takes fewer sacks, he could help Arizona be competitive. And with wide receivers Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald, he will have much better talent to throw to than his last stint in New York with the Giants.

Warner could land an extended stay if he does what Green expects of him. But more than likely he is just keeping the seat warm until Arizona realizes the best way to land a franchise quarterback is to draft one.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats/gambo/0314rant.html[/QUOTE

Excellent take. This article echoes my sentiments from day one. You build your team around your QB as it forever remains the most important position on a team. Yes, some day we will have to draft a QB with our first pick which might produce a long term solution. It may take several drafts to do it but until we find the right QB we will forever wonder in the darkness. Hopefully Warner can take us past the .500 mark this year or even the next two years but if the chance ever presents itself to take a good QB you do it. Fitz rather than Big Ben will forever stick in my throat. Perhaps Green has not made many mistakes but that one was a doooooozy. Time to move on however because what is done is done. Warner and McCown will have to do it this year.

The Billy Goat Curse: Woe is to me. Mark prior out indifintely with an inflamed elbow and Kerry Wood down with a sore shoulder. Sometimes I think I may be the curse of the Cubs and Cards. I wonder if I am the only Cards/Cubs fan in the universe. No one deserves this much torture.
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
NEZCardsfan said:
Initially, I wasn't too thrilled with Warner. Until I looked at it this way: BARE MINIMUM, HE'S BETTER THAN KING!!
I don't know what else we could have done. At the minimum we needed somebody more experienced behind Josh. The draft QBs aren't all that great. We didn't trade for Brees, and plus nobody knows if he is great or a one year wonder.

I'm glad this is a one year deal. We retain some flexibility with this situation going into next year then!!

I clearly think Warner was our best option. The guy could play another three years and could??? be very effective. He has done it before so it is not out of the question. It remains our most important signing of the year. Not because he is the best guy we signed but because of the position he plays. He can potentially turn this team into a winner.
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
552,690
Posts
5,402,049
Members
6,313
Latest member
50 year card fan
Top