Cards won't get Leinart

[Russ Smith]

It might just be that I'm bad luck for Leinart, but every single game I have seen him play, he ends up getting knocked out for a few plays and Booty has to come in the game. So I haven't been too impressed with his durability... The QB has to take some shots sometimes...


...also his comments after the ASU game calling a hit on him "cheap shot" sounded so petty and panzy. I hope he isn't a Cardinal

It was a cheap shot though, the ball was long gone when he got hit.

Leinart is tough but I don't think he's anywhere near 100% right now, between teh concussion and I am not convinced the shoulder is healed.

 

[Ryanwb]

It was a cheap shot though, the ball was long gone when he got hit.

I will call it a "late hit" and not a cheap shot. To me a cheap shot is when you hit a guy when he isn't looking or totally go out of your way to injure someone. He let the ball go like .5 step before the defender got there. Every QB in the league will take those hits, they even keep track of them statistically. He just needs to bounce up and take it like a man, not cry to the media like he is a friggen primadonna

 

[Arizona's Finest]

It's funny the only Leinart haters on this board are ASU fans. I think basically every NFL scout or personnel guy think he's the #1 pick in the draft two years running.

The guy has had basically less than five mediocre games in his entire college career. Give me a break.

Right with you Mao...

The stats do Lienert no justice really. You can say all you want about his not looking that impressive this season but to me that means you are looking at the wrong things. Watch how tight his spiral is. Watch his touch with floaters. Watch where the ball lands when a reciever is on the run. His accuracy is close to Palmers. He throws a nice deep ball and is the prototype NFL QB size.

To me though his success will be because of his intangibles. Student of the game, running the offense w/o the master Norm Chow. He changes the protection fronts in the right way every time. He audibled on that 4th and 9 play that was supposed to be a slant. One of the SC players said he had a smirk on his face as he was in the huddle before that snap and he calls a play that has like a 20% success rate on the play that defined the season. Balls of steel. Hes a ntural leader as he kept Dwayne Jarrett involved and loved when he was getting homesick as a freshman last year. I remember high school coachs before he played a snap talking about his mind and how he had the "it" factor. He compares himself to Tom Brady becuse he thinks he is a winner. The guy will be one of the top QB's after a couple years in the NFL IMO.

I do agree that he can be rattled by hits. After ASU knocked him down he was never the same. And it remains to be seen if he can handle consistent pressure on the QB because of the line he plays behind. But talking about his performance last game is unfair as ND's defense played out of their minds, and I doubt he will ever play another defense that "wanted" it more. Lienert will have some big games left in Cal and UCLA and i expect him to play well. Lienert is a stud but its unlikely unless the Cards want to trade up, that they will have a chance at him....

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I will call it a "late hit" and not a cheap shot. To me a cheap shot is when you hit a guy when he isn't looking or totally go out of your way to injure someone. He let the ball go like .5 step before the defender got there. Every QB in the league will take those hits, they even keep track of them statistically. He just needs to bounce up and take it like a man, not cry to the media like he is a friggen primadonna

That was definitly a cheap shot. Lienert was right to think the LB would pull up as he got the ball away LONG before the hit took place...But it was the right thing for ASU to do as it had a huge effect the rest of the game.

 

[moklerman]

The only thing that's debatable is whether Leinart should be commenting on something like that. I think it was an obvious cheap shot. Spearing a qb on the chin with the crown of your helmet when he's clearly gotten rid of the ball seem's way too easy to call, I don't think Leinart should be making any comments on the subject. I didn't see or hear what he was saying so I'm not sure of the context but 9 times out of 10 if you criticize someone it will come back to haunt you in some manner.

 

[chickenhead]

The question is not whether he will be a great NFL QB - it's whether his record and stats are good enough to justifythe risk. Clearly they are in almost every case, IMO. That being said, the Cardinals might be one of the worse fits for him. It may be just defeatist Cards thinking, but I hate the thought of paying through the nose for him and then watching him be another Carr behind a line we can't afford to upgrade.

 

[john h]

Some of this has been discussed on other threads just wanted to highlight it.

IMO the Cards will not finish with the worst record. I think the 49ers will or perhaps the Texans. I really think the pick will be traded and several teams will put together a sweet deal to get Leinart. The Jets could really use a franchise qb so could the Cowboys. (and there are others). I'm sure that Leinart (like Eli Manning) would love playing in New York. I don't see the Bidwills moving up and paying the big bucks for the first pick in the draft Additionally Denny has never moved up in the first round.
Bottom line is I just don't see Leinart becomming a Cardinal. I really don't know at this time if there is another college qb out there that would be worth the low pick that the Cards most likely will have. (could be top ten again).

We got a shot at it. Currently we are tied for last in the NFL and I only see a couple of games we might win the way we are playing. In the Power Ratings we are third from last with a rating of something like 28 with the top team well over 200. That must be near some sort of record. Is it just fate or what that the very best teams have the very best QB's. Last week the 17 teams that ran the ball the most number of times won all 17 games. What is that all about? (From Sports Center).

 

[john h]

We got a shot at it. Currently we are tied for last in the NFL and I only see a couple of games we might win the way we are playing. In the Power Ratings we are third from last with a rating of something like 28 with the top team well over 200. That must be near some sort of record. Is it just fate or what that the very best teams have the very best QB's. Last week the 17 teams that ran the ball the most number of times won all 17 games. What is that all about? (From Sports Center).

Russ I agree that I do not see the Cards getting Leinhart for the reasons you noted although they clearly have a chance to finish in a position to draft #1 or #2. This poses the question who will be our QB next year? If McCown stumbles our only decent option is Warner who probably could do a decent job. He probably will not come back as a backup as to many teams need a starter. Dallas is doing well with an older QB. Experience is highly valued among many NFL coaches.

 

[Duckjake]

We got a shot at it. Currently we are tied for last in the NFL and I only see a couple of games we might win the way we are playing. In the Power Ratings we are third from last with a rating of something like 28 with the top team well over 200. That must be near some sort of record. Is it just fate or what that the very best teams have the very best QB's. Last week the 17 teams that ran the ball the most number of times won all 17 games. What is that all about? (From Sports Center).

It doesn't matter how many times you run the ball when your offense has only scored 5 TD's in 5 games.

Instead of a QB the Cards should sign 3 or 4 guys from the Australian Rules Football league and just call a run/punt option on every play.

 

[joeshmo]

We got a shot at it. Currently we are tied for last in the NFL.

When did Houston ever win a game, or when did the NFL take away our 1 win?

And we are in a 5 way tie for the 2nd pick in the draft. And with SF having no hope in sight what so ever more so then us, we pick no higher then #3, bank on it.

Even with that though we still have a shot at Lienart becuase Houston can very easily take Ferguson, and the Niners take Bush. They could trade down but they wont get nearly the same caliber player if they do trade down, which leads me to believe they wont. As of right now at least.

 

[moklerman]

I haven't watched too much of the Niners but they already have Barlow and Gore. Gore is actually very promising looking. Now, Bush is probably going to be the Heisman winner so it seems hard to pass him up but I thinkt he 49ers would trade out of a top spot, gain some additional picks and shore up other area of their team that need help. Qb and Rb aren't "needs" for them right now. Plus, they just paid out the biggest rookie contract in history last year. If they take Bush #1 overall, they'll have to pay out the biggest contract ever, two years in a row.

I say #1 because I'm assuming that's where Bush will be taken, not that the 49ers will finish dead last.

 

[Pariah]

I haven't watched too much of the Niners but they already have Barlow and Gore.

Barlow and Gore are not in the same class as Bush, IMO. I think Bush will be a lot like Westbrook, only with more gamebreaking ability. Even teams with a clear no. 1 RB (this does not include SF) will be hard pressed to pass on him.

 

[Russ Smith]

I haven't watched too much of the Niners but they already have Barlow and Gore. Gore is actually very promising looking. Now, Bush is probably going to be the Heisman winner so it seems hard to pass him up but I thinkt he 49ers would trade out of a top spot, gain some additional picks and shore up other area of their team that need help. Qb and Rb aren't "needs" for them right now. Plus, they just paid out the biggest rookie contract in history last year. If they take Bush #1 overall, they'll have to pay out the biggest contract ever, two years in a row.

I say #1 because I'm assuming that's where Bush will be taken, not that the 49ers will finish dead last.

Barlow is trying to save his job now, he's pretty lazy. They like Gore he runs really hard, but the kid has had so many ACL problems I doubt you pass on Bush because you have Gore.

 

[moklerman]

I agree that Barlow and Gore may not be the next Walter Payton but I also don't think they are a problem or weak link. I wasn't aware of Gore's knee problems. I actually don't know anything about him other than what I've seen on the 49ers, which has been mostly good. The few times I've seen him he has clearly outplayed Barlow. My perception of Barlow may be outdated too. He was a stud when he first came into the league and basically ran the other rb out of town. Now, he hasn't realized his potential but the 49ers have been so bad lately that I don't know if you can fairly assess the rb's actual ability.

Aside from all of that though, I don't really think the 49ers have the cap space to rebuild and pay Bush the kind of money he's going to get. They would be a lot better off to trade down in my opinion. There just aren't any sure things coming out of college anymore in terms of "win's". Cadillac Williams came into a lot better situation than Bush would in SF and as good as he's looked, he's still dinged up and missing playing time. It's just not worth sinking all that money into a skill player when you have so many pressing needs on the o-line and defense.

 

[john h]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic but I think did it is a real possibilty that McCown will sign a multiyear deal with the Cards. There has been excellent improvement since last year even Denny has acknowledged that fact. But there still are 11 games left so who knows.

Sure there is a possibility we could sign McCown to a multi year deal. It is all in his hands. If he shows he is worth it then we will try. If he plays like he has in many games he will be signing somewhere else. I hope he is lights out but I would not bet any money on it. Does anyone really see him as a Joe Montana, Marino,Ellway,Big Ben, type of QB? He may turn out to be a decent run of the mill QB but I have more lofty goals. It is time this organization sign a real honest to goodness top QB. Trade for him, get him in FA, get him in the draft. I really do not care but I am sick of average or mostly less than average.

 

[john h]

That's just mean.

McCown is not an NFL starting QB, that joke is playing itself out real fast.

It's time for the Cardinals to put a face on our team, who is it right now, Fitzgerald? Boldin? It's probably Denny Green, and that is sad IMO. They need a franchise QB to fill the new stadium, and to show we're actually trying to improve upon the most important position in the NFL, we haven't done jack at QB for years, and it's depressing when it looks like the ownership is constantly just trying to patch up the team, hoping folks will keep buying tickets. When they look the other owners in the eyes they should be embarassed, at the difference in revenue between the Cards and the rest of the NFL.

Investing in a QB of the future, would be wise at some point. Trading up for Leinhart would atleast show they're making an effort in that direction, Vince Young would be another option. I think Matt Schaub is also going to be a FA at seasons end, at this time I'd prefer Leinhart, then Young.

BTW This absolutely sucks to be thinking about this during week 6!!!

It would have been wise years ago. We are at a point it makes financial sense. Our fan base and revenue will not grow with the likes of the QB's we play with. Money drives everything in the NFL and if we continue to be way in the bottom of attendance we will continue to be way in the bottom of the standings.

 

[john h]

yeah because backups usually throw 800 yards and 4 touchdowns in 2 games

After nearly 4 years and having two decent games (we lost one) does not a great QB make. How many crappy games has he played. We seem to have forgotten those. He has to show a lot more than two games to prove he is worth signing even a short term contract.

 

[john h]

Arizona will not have the #1 pick which is what will be required to get the USC QB. Figure between 3-8 which is where they finished pretty much every year since 1958 when they last had the #1 selection. The Cards have drafted out of the top 10 only twice since 1990.

Hard to believe that after 15 years of drafting two of the top 45 players coming out of college each year our team could still be at the bottom of the league. I think they could have drawn names out of a hat and done better.

Bush could very easily go number 1 and we could very easily draft #2. The Bidwills would be under extreme pressure to take Leinhart regardless of their money situation. I imagine their would be some sort of revolt in the desert if the Cards passed on Leinhart if he was available. I would think they are totally nuts. I must say however that Bush is right there with him. Depends on your need. Some teams do not need a starting QB.

 

[john h]

What is all the hype about Leinart. I have watched 4 Usc games this year and i have not seen him do any thing more spectacular than Josh Mcnown. yes his stats are high but mainly becuse he dose a 2 yard drop off pass to to Bush or White and they are they are so good they turn that in to a 70 yard TD pass. never do you see him throw deep. usc also has a awesome O-Line that gives alot of time. I cant wait till he flops in the nfl. Josh for sure has a better arm.

We must not be talking about the same guys. You are talking about a two time Heisman winner and a team that has won something like 28 straight games against tough competition. Who would even consider McCown over Leinhart? We have watched McCown for 3.5 years. What has he done for the team? This is like comparing JJ with Barry Sanders.

 

[joeshmo]

Just a heads up but Pasta Belly on ESPN just stated that the Texans have already publicly stated that they will pick up Carr's huge roster bonus this offseason. Which pretty much means no Lienart to Houston who will have the #1 pick. And I doubt they trade down and gamble at shot at a greatly needed Ferguson or maybe even McNeil who is jumping up some scouts boards.

 

[john h]

It's funny the only Leinart haters on this board are ASU fans. I think basically every NFL scout or personnel guy think he's the #1 pick in the draft two years running.

The guy has had basically less than five mediocre games in his entire college career. Give me a break.

You do not win 28 straight games being mediocre. He or Bush will go #1. This guy is a winner. He is smart, has leadership skills, sees the field and most of all he wins games. Some team is going to have a very good QB for many years wherever he signs. I am no fan of USC or UCLA but I admire talent when I see it.

 

[moklerman]

This is like comparing JJ with Barry Sanders.

I'm drinking the USC Kool-Aid at this point (they are my "local" div 1A team) but I don't know if you realize the comparison you just made. I understand what you're saying but Leinart hasn't done crapola in the NFL.

McCown to Leinart = Arrington to Sanders. So, Leinart=Sanders? I don't think so. Right now, Leinart = Gino Toretta. Remember, the guy who led the powerhouse Hurricanes a few years ago and won the Heisman? Until Leinart wins any games in the NFL we can't just assume he's a quality starter. As much as I'm not a McCown-backer, he's done some good things with average/poor support. In the NFL. C'mon, I wasn't even following the Cardinals that closely last year and I was still impressed by the McCown led victory over the Vikings. McCown isn't without potential of his own and he's had success at the NFL level.

 

[john h]

That pass on 4th down was perfect, not sure if he audibled or not, doesn't matter to me, he executed, and put the ball exactly where it needed to be. McCown does that in a blue moon. Leinhart may have some things to work on coming out of college, but the man is a NATURAL LEADER, and a tough SOB, I'll take that at QB, something we haven't had since... ummm... LOMAX!

You've got to be kidding me if you want to give McClown a long term contract because he's shown you something in 2 games, against the 49ers and the Panthers. LMAO! Do Card fans just NOT want to win, ever?

McCown is throwing to perhaps the best receiving corps in the NFL. He had better be making some yardage and more importantly he needs to win. Yardage means crap if you do not win. We have had 400 yard passers before and 200 yd runners but they were not here very long.

 

[john h]

I don't think he's a franchise savior type of player. Like I've said before, Reggie Bush is easily the best player on that team. If I was drafting, I'd draft Bush first and then pick every draft-eligible USC offensive lineman.

The last two drafts have seen Eli Manning and Alex Smith go #1. Is Leinart that much worse than either of those two? It's hard to say that he is.

If you have a good QB you draft Bush. If you have no QB worth keeping you have to think about this real hard. Bush and Leinhart are both #1s in my mind. Depends on your need.

 

[john h]

Sam Keller has more passing yards and TDs than Clemens, so you think Keller is the best out of the 3 right?

And JJ had more rushing yards than those two RB's from Auburn. There is more than those stats. NFL scouts seem to be able to see through the chaff.