Channing Frye

[overseascardsfan]

This discussion seems to be running in circles. It might be easier if we break down the different issues.

1. Will Frye make it in the NBA? Most centers don't, at least not right away. Playing center is very hard and most fail. Rafael Araujo was the 8th pick in the draft and is very strong, but his numbers were hardly impressive in the 48 of the team's 68 games.

Rafael Araujo
Toronto Raptors
Position: C
Height: 6-11 Weight: 280
College : Brigham Young
Player file | Team stats

2004-05 Statistics
PPG 3.3
RPG 3.4
APG .3
SPG .31
BPG .17
FG% .419
FT% .846
3P% .500
MPG 12.4

Araujo is hardly an exception. Drafting a center is usually a major gamble and most don't succeed. Most others do modestly well, but nothing outstanding. A tiny few become really good and have the ability to change the nature of their teams. Taking Frye would be a gamble, but so would every other center including Bogut be something of gamble. It is the nature of the NBA.

2. If Frye a terrible prospect? Compared to whom? I think he has as much potential as Chris Kaman showed cominging in the NBA. Kaman can score has good rebounding numbers, 6.7 rpg in 25.6 minutes but is not very good on defense. Frye is a quicker but lacks Kaman's bulk.

Likewise, I think Frye would soon be better than Voskuhl. Jake is not that strong and lacks Frye's offensive skills.

3. Should Frye be compared to Loren Woods? About all they have in common is that they played for U of A. There are skinny, long armed centers like Camby and Ratliff who have made it in the NBA dispite not being very strong. There are innumerable other guys with great college careers that have fallen apart. Woods is just one guy with character problems. Why fixate on him?

4. Should the Suns take Frye? My guess is that there are will be some other players available when they pick who would be able to contribute more than Frye. I like Frye, but I think there are some guys who could contribute right away and I don't think Frye would.

In any case, this is all opinion. It is hardly the basis for hostility.

I agree. Anytime you draft a center it's a gamble (Michael Olowokandi, etc.). They say you can't teach size which is a horrible reason to draft a tall player. With all that said who will be available when we pick that will make a contribution. I feel with Barbosa and Vujilic coming along we don't need another point guard. We are loaded at the 2 and 3. The biggest need is a low post defender with outstanding rebounding ability, so who's there? For the record I wouldn't draft Villanueva, too undiciplined.

 

[PhxGametime]

The biggest need is a low post defender with outstanding rebounding ability, so who's there? For the record I wouldn't draft Villanueva, too undiciplined.

I'm not sure a pure low post defender is needed? The Suns are going to score 110 again next year and regardless of who they add (1 Prospect) are still going to give up 98-100 PTS with the style they play. Does that mean Suns should Draft a player that doesn't play defense, no but IMO another skillball player that can rebound, play defense, that can score to stay on floor is needed (at least that's what I think). We don't need a stopper, playing run n gun. Unless he can play effective defense, while fitting skillball sytsem - Suns don't need a Mutumbo type of Prospect.

IMO the best bang for buck, picking at #17 is another Marion type that can rebound. I'm not sure who that would be but top-tier Centers, Point Guards, and Power Fowards will be off board. Unless 5 teams ahead of Suns take that type of Prospect looking to copycat (lack of a better word) the Suns, there should be a Prospect there at #17 that plays the 3/4.

Marion was pegged as a mid-round Prospect by most of the experts.

With: Marvin Williams, Danny Granger, Hakim Warrick, Joey Graham, and possibly Charlie Villanueva, (although I might stay away from him as well) I'm sure others - there is bound to be at least 2 of these on board.

Bogut, M Williams, Paul, Boone, Splitter, D Williams, Felton, Taft, R Gay, Brewer, McCants, a few H.S Prospects, and obviously a few International players should go high. Hopefully most of those Prospects enter Draft.

If Frye isn't the right F/C for team, then Sheldin Williams or Ike Diogu fit the undersized (Shel being the defensive and Ike being the offensive) brusier type, if that's what Suns are looking for.

There's bound to be sleepers, that I've never heard of...

Eddie Badsen is 1 G/F that I like, Chad Ford mentioned being 1 of the top defensive Prospects in Draft and can rebound (8+), pass (3+), defend... steals (3) and scores/shoots enough.

I didn't mean to start what happened to this thread but I wanted Richard Jefferson and got slack and I wanted Iguodala from begininng of season and even he got some criticism by members. I know there were others and a few come Draft time were in favor, but the board wasn't all set on Iggy either last year.

IMO if he can play enough defense, rebound, and fit system - another athlete that can shoot. I wouldn't mind having another Marion, JJ type - because there's bound to be a few where the Suns Pick. I just want 1 that can play the 4 though.

 

[Joe Mama]

And Pearl Harbor was great because we eventually won the war.

This logic doesn't make any sense. The Suns didn't trade their 6th pick away because they knew they would get Q. They traded it away because they thought Iggy would be off the board and they thought Chicago would stink and they'd have a lotto pick this year.

Getting Q was a lucky coincidence it was not part of some great master plan.


The Suns did not trade the 6th pick for Quentin Richardson.

The Suns could have got 2 first rounders for the #6 from a team in the middle of the pack but they made this deal because they thought the Bulls would continue to stink. I'm as happy as anybody that the Suns are doing great but I'm not going to pretend like they made some great deal with Chicago. The fact is they made a bad deal and things just happened to turn out great in spite of it.

You are just wrong here. The number one goal for the Phoenix Suns last summer was to get as much room under the salary cap as possible. There were only a few players in the draft who the Suns thought were worth the salary space they would take. Apparently Iguodala and Deng were two of them. However everything they were hearing right before the draft let them to believe that both of those guys would be off the board. They absolutely did not want to take the chance of being stuck with some guy they weren't in love with taking up vital salary-cap space.

You can keep believing that the move was about improving draft position, but you'll be wrong. If they could go back and do it again they might have tried moving Cabarkapa to Golden State for salary relief. Then they probably could have taken Iguodala and had the same amount of money to sign Q. Of course then they would not have had Vroman to use in the Jimmy Jackson deal. You see the problem with all of this hindsight?

The bottom line is that without moving that draft pick the Phoenix Suns would not have the salary cap space to sign Q. Whether you believe that was intentional or not is really irrelevant. I guarantee you wouldn't find a single person in the Phoenix Suns organization who would prefer to have Iguodala and whatever free-agent could have been signed for the remaining money at that point.

No, no, no, no ... no. [shaking head violently] Now you're just getting carried away.

If Frye were "Steven Hunter with a jumpshot" he would be a lottery pick. Frye is more like the offensive version of Hunter. In the NBA, Frye's shot-blocking skills and athleticism don't compare to Hunter's, IMO. Say what you want about Hunter's basketball IQ and offensive skills, but he is definately one of the better shot-blocking centers in the game. He just has a hard time doing the other important things that would afford the Suns to play him more minutes ... like rebound consistently and hit free throws more often than not.

Blocking 6-6 college shooting guards on the weakside is not the same as blocking 6-10 behemoths in the NBA facing up.

First of all let me apologize for jumping your case about Phoenix preferring that their centers have no offense. My sarcastic side must have fallen asleep when I wrote that.

Secondly... amen. There are all sorts of holes in Steven Hunter's game. Offensive way he is constantly in the wrong place. Defensively he sometimes leaves his man too quickly, and he isn't very strong on the boards. He is however one of the better shot blockers in the NBA. He is also a very underrated one-on-one low post defender. If Channing Frye was as long and athletic as Hunter he would be a top 10 and possibly top 5 draft pick.

Frye is a nice player. IMO best case scenario he is a nice frontcourt player off the bench... maybe a spot starter. He does everything pretty well, but he really doesn't stand out in any one area. That's what gets Hunter drafted relatively high. He had the size and athleticism to be a very good NBA shot blocker.

Woods would actually be a better comparison to Hunter. In fact if you took the back problems and mental instability away from Loren Woods they would be quite comparable.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Woods would actually be a better comparison to Hunter. In fact if you took the back problems and mental instability away from Loren Woods they would be quite comparable.

Joe Mama

That is absolutely 100% correct. Back problems and mental instability. Frye doesn't have any of those.

 

[kps0001]

you do realize that Frye stats were better than Woods in the tourney this year, right?

How exactly did you beat Chap there? If anything - it's a draw.

I don't know the exact #'s but I think they were around equal in pts and reb apparently. Regardless, I wasn't trying to beat Chap in anything, he, I believe was just misunderstanding my points. As, I believe, we pretty much think they are of equal talent. Woods having the mental probs or whatever coupled with the back problems might lead Frye to a slightly better pro career. Cool think we got it all worked out, I hope.

 

[PhxGametime]

I plan on finishing 2nd half of the 1 Charlotte game I have - I was keying on Eddie Badsen last time I watched but I'd like to try to watch some of Curtis Withers (another 3/4 that can rebound and shoot), he was struggling 1st half from what I remember but I'd like to find as many 3/4's possibilities as I can.


McDonald's starts soon...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Also, I think they were pretty clear that Q was on their radar from the start. They knew that Manu would not be available and Turk would not really work. QUOTE]


george, you're just making stuff up to support your argument here. they wouldn't have brought turkeyglue in here first if they "knew" he "would not really work."

i agree with the general premise that the pick was traded to free up more cap space, but let's not start making things up.

 

[elindholm]

Whether the how-and-why is made up or not, I'm glad the Suns didn't wind up with Turkoglu. He has moments of brilliance, but just doens't bring that much to the table on a regular basis in my opinion.

they wouldn't have brought turkeyglue in here first if they "knew" he "would not really work."

Incidentally, by the same argument, it's pointless to claim that Nash (instead of Bryant) was the Suns' first choice in free agency this summer. The Suns may have strongly suspected that Bryant was going to turn them down, but there's no way they would have made him an offer if they didn't want him to take it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Whether the how-and-why is made up or not, I'm glad the Suns didn't wind up with Turkoglu. He has moments of brilliance, but just doens't bring that much to the table on a regular basis in my opinion.

i agree. i was pissed when i heard we were interested in him. def not over q.

 

[Chaplin]

i was pissed when i heard we were interested in him. def not over q.

Understatement of the year.

 

[devilalum]

Whether the how-and-why is made up or not, I'm glad the Suns didn't wind up with Turkoglu. He has moments of brilliance, but just doens't bring that much to the table on a regular basis in my opinion.

they wouldn't have brought turkeyglue in here first if they "knew" he "would not really work."

Incidentally, by the same argument, it's pointless to claim that Nash (instead of Bryant) was the Suns' first choice in free agency this summer. The Suns may have strongly suspected that Bryant was going to turn them down, but there's no way they would have made him an offer if they didn't want him to take it.

The bottom line is that the Suns are a really good team.

It's even all the more incredible when you look at the moves that led to this point in time. Some of them were genius, some were serendipitous and some of the best moves were the ones that fell through and never happened at all.

 

[Chaplin]

The bottom line is that the Suns are a really good team.

It's even all the more incredible when you look at the moves that led to this point in time. Some of them were genius, some were serendipitous and some of the best moves were the ones that fell through and never happened at all.

Definitely, like the Marion for McGrady movie.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Definitely, like the Marion for McGrady movie.

totally - really glad they didn't make a sequel to that one!

 

[elindholm]

I guess it would have been called The Matrix: Relocated.

 

[WizardOfAz]

So, then, where does he go in the upcoming draft?

Climbing the charts

Five players have upped their pro prospects in March

3. Channing Frye, senior center, Arizona
Could climb into top 15 in '05 draft.

Season averages: 15.8 points, 7.6 rebounds, 85 blocks.
In the dance: 17 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks vs. Utah State; six points, seven rebounds, three blocks vs. UAB; 15 points, 10 rebounds, four assists, three blocks vs. Oklahoma State; 24 points, 12 rebounds, six blocks vs. Illinois.

Scout's take: Frye really improved his stock; he showed more skill and toughness down the stretch this season than he did last year. He'll play the four in the NBA -- he's a high-post entry passer, and if he gets on a team with a solid low-post scorer at the five, Frye will be especially effective. He might be a better version of Brian Cook -- Cook might have more shooting range, but Frye is a better passer and may have a better feel for the game.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/luke_winn/03/31/draft.prospects/1.html

 

[George O'Brien]

My guess is that people who only saw Frye in this year's tournament have a much higher opinion of him than people who have watched him for four years. He almost single handedly beat Illinois (before the Wildcat's guards self destructed), played well against Oklahoma State, and put up great stats overall.

But we have seen Channing get pushed around and outplayed by smaller guys, fail to come through in the clutch, and join the rest of the team in under performing against Washington, etc. Those performances leave deep impressions, although some impressions are from earlier in his career.

In any case, I think he will make it as an NBA player but I am skeptical about him becoming exceptional.

 

[Chaplin]

My guess is that people who only saw Frye in this year's tournament have a much higher opinion of him than people who have watched him for four years. He almost single handedly beat Illinois (before the Wildcat's guards self destructed), played well against Oklahoma State, and put up great stats overall.

But we have seen Channing get pushed around and outplayed by smaller guys, fail to come through in the clutch, and join the rest of the team in under performing against Washington, etc. Those performances leave deep impressions, although some impressions are from earlier in his career.

In any case, I think he will make it as an NBA player but I am skeptical about him becoming exceptional.

I think you are underrating him based on the years before this past season. He has made great strides this year--and had some sub-par games this season, heck every college basketball player has, including Andrew Bogut, who many think will go #1. There is no reason to devalue him based on that, otherwise, you need to devalue every player.

Channing won't be exceptional--I don't think one person has every said that. They've said he'll be "effective" and I don't think you can dispute that, assuming you watched him this season.

 

[George O'Brien]

I think you are underrating him based on the years before this past season. He has made great strides this year--and had some sub-par games this season, heck every college basketball player has, including Andrew Bogut, who many think will go #1. There is no reason to devalue him based on that, otherwise, you need to devalue every player.

Channing won't be exceptional--I don't think one person has every said that. They've said he'll be "effective" and I don't think you can dispute that, assuming you watched him this season.

I view myself in the middle of the road. I would not be upset if the Suns drafted him, but I'm not sure I would be excited about it either. I do think he would be an upgrade over Voskuhl and is certainly a better foul shooter than Hunter.

 

[rickrude]

Channing will fit in fine with whatever team that picks him. Personally, I think there is a good chance he could be gone by the time we pick, but that is just me. The best way to judge a player is by his performances. Against the best player he played against all year in Bogut, Bogut got 20 pts 10 rebs 3 asts 6 turnovers and 0 blocked shots, Frye had 19 pts 9 rebs 2 asts 1 turnover and 3 blocked shots. This all coming in a head to head matchup with the potential number 1 pick. Also, in the biggest game of his career against Illinois, he had 24pts 12 boards and 6 blocked shots. He is an extremely fundamental player that will be a pretty good pro for a while for whoever picks him.

 

[NickelBack]

3. Channing Frye, senior center, Arizona
Could climb into top 15 in '05 draft.

15 seems reasonable to me.