CJ Mosley

[kerouac9]

Does not sound very Cardinalesque, we never immediately target the top guy at a position in FA, we never are going to win a bidding war for said guy, and when has a top FA ever chosen us to sign with? CJ Mosley would be great, but why would the Ravens let him walk?

This is a bad take. The Cards jumped on the top free agents a few years ago in signing Veldheer and Iupati. Arguably, they got the best FA guard last season in Pugh (this isn't my argument, but some people were saying it).

The sad fact of the matter is that good free agents don't come available anymore. Every guy is scratch-and-dent.

Interesting that, as far as I can tell, Mosley isn't a captain for the Ravens.

 

[TheCardFan]

I believe the Ravens only have 1 captain per unit (offense, defense, ST).

Suggs is the captain on defense. Weird that Flacco wasn't a captain either.

Speaking of Suggs...any interest in him coming back to AZ?

 

[Chopper0080]

Sure we could have. Instead we paid Honey Badger and David Johnson.

Cool choice.

I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people to understand. We spent money. We just chose to spend it on other people instead of CC.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't understand why this concept is so difficult for people to understand. We spent money. We just chose to spend it on other people instead of CC.

The concept is difficult because people are loathe to admit they're wrong. It's that simple.

 

[Chopper0080]

It is like hearing someone complain about not having money when they choose to have a $1000 car payment. The issue isn't that you don't have money, it is that you choose to spend it on a car vs other things. It is not a right or wrong, it is an action and consequence.

 

[iLLmatiC]

It is like hearing someone complain about not having money when they choose to have a $1000 car payment. The issue isn't that you don't have money, it is that you choose to spend it on a car vs other things. It is not a right or wrong, it is an action and consequence.

Great analogy. So we got Gresham and Mathieu instead of retaining CC. Sweet.

I hated both those contracts when we handed them out. I would still like to understand their thought process on them.

 

[TheCardFan]

Great analogy. So we got Gresham and Mathieu instead of retaining CC. Sweet.

I hated both those contracts when we handed them out. I would still like to understand their thought process on them.

I think they were "rewarding" veteran players.

Gresham was a 1 year prove it deal if I remember correctly.
HB was amazing and a big part of our success and then got injured.

Keim bet on the come and went bust on both of them.

Meanwhile, CC is still dominating. I will say that I was and still am opposed to CC's contract. However, I would trade his contract for Gresham and HB's without a doubt.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Do you think that David Johnson would get his current contract if he were a free agent today? Would people here be mad if we placed the Franchise Tag on David Johnson this season to retain his rights? The projected franchise number for a RB this year is $11.2mm. David Johnson's 2019 cap number is $9.75m.

Chopper and I at the time were saying we should wait a year and see if David Johnson is actually good before paying him; we can always franchise him and work it out later. But we just paid a guy Top 2-3 money when he hasn't provided that value for the last two seasons.

I was a Keim apologist this offseason, but it's boggling that Keim is still paying players for their best seasons, even if they haven't shown themselves to be the same guy.

Yep you two were the "resistance" and likely right about the topic of signing Johnson to an extension. I cared more about signing him from the optics point of view and the fact that even a 75% David Johnson is 150% better than almost any other RB the Cardinals have had since they moved to Arizona.

 

[Solar7]

Yep you two were the "resistance" and likely right about the topic of signing Johnson to an extension. I cared more about signing him from the optics point of view and the fact that even a 75% David Johnson is 150% better than almost any other RB the Cardinals have had since they moved to Arizona.

The last thing I'd want this season is for DJ to be sitting out based on the franchise tag, creating a huge distraction. I mean, we'd still be paying him more than we are now... are we really thinking we'd be releasing him? This way the guy plays out his best years here and we can think about it some other time.

With Fitz coming back and no major rumbles about PP21 being moved, I feel like we're in good shape to walk into the offseason without any major distractions.

 

[JeffGollin]

The last thing I'd want this season is for DJ to be sitting out based on the franchise tag, creating a huge distraction. I mean, we'd still be paying him more than we are now... are we really thinking we'd be releasing him? This way the guy plays out his best years here and we can think about it some other time.

With Fitz coming back and no major rumbles about PP21 being moved, I feel like we're in good shape to walk into the offseason without any major distractions.

It's a jungle out there.

Pay DJ a big contract and he gets injured or underperforms. Don't pay him and he becomes league MVP for some other team.

You pays your money and takes your chances - & for a GM, there's plenty of blame and praise to be passed out.

Personally, I'm biased toward the "bird in hand" philosophy (which places a priority on keeping the talent you already have because they're a known entity).

 

[az jam]

I like Mosley and feel he would be an excellent addition. However, I think the Ravens will find a way to resign him.

 

[Ronin]

And they’re planning to spend a large chunk of it on linebacker C.J. Mosley.

Via Jeff Zrebiec of The Athletic, Ravens General Manager Eric DeCosta made it clear Mosley was central to their plan.

“We’re going to do what I can to make sure C.J. is back on our team,” he said.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/30/ravens-want-to-make-sure-c-j-mosley-goes-nowhere/

 

[Chopper0080]

I think they were "rewarding" veteran players.

Gresham was a 1 year prove it deal if I remember correctly.
HB was amazing and a big part of our success and then got injured.

Keim bet on the come and went bust on both of them.

Meanwhile, CC is still dominating. I will say that I was and still am opposed to CC's contract. However, I would trade his contract for Gresham and HB's without a doubt.

This is the crux of the argument. Whether you like the CC contract or not, it is impossible to not look back and say that it would have been better to invest in him vs Mathieu and Gresham.

 

[kerouac9]

I think they were "rewarding" veteran players.

Gresham was a 1 year prove it deal if I remember correctly.
HB was amazing and a big part of our success and then got injured.

Keim bet on the come and went bust on both of them.

Meanwhile, CC is still dominating. I will say that I was and still am opposed to CC's contract. However, I would trade his contract for Gresham and HB's without a doubt.

Keim signed them to contracts that neither could possibly outplay. They could only meet it. That’s not how you move forward as a franchise.

The last thing I'd want this season is for DJ to be sitting out based on the franchise tag, creating a huge distraction. I mean, we'd still be paying him more than we are now... are we really thinking we'd be releasing him? This way the guy plays out his best years here and we can think about it some other time.

With Fitz coming back and no major rumbles about PP21 being moved, I feel like we're in good shape to walk into the offseason without any major distractions.

We’d never franchise him based on his play the last two seasons. We could probably sign him for half of what he’s making now, or draft a guy in the 4th round who could replace 80% of his production for 20% of the cost.

I find it mind boggling that after what’s happened in Pittsburgh, KC and St Louis people still think there’s a thing called an irreplaceable running back.

 

[iLLmatiC]

This is the crux of the argument. Whether you like the CC contract or not, it is impossible to not look back and say that it would have been better to invest in him vs Mathieu and Gresham.

We knew what we were getting in CC. We had no idea how Mathieu was going to be after his 2nd knee injury. We had no idea if Jermaine Gresham could ever reach where he was at in Cincy before his back surgery. I remember when we resigned Gresham that folks on here said "oh well, that's the going price for a TE in the league". In my mind, as an outsider perspective it was a no brainer regarding not resigning Gresham and Mathieu to those contracts. Also we should have franchised DJ until he hit 30 and cut him loose or cut him loose before then. I respect that Keim is trying to show other's around the league that Arizona takes care of theirs but jeez, it's crippled our franchise for years with dead money.

 

[az jam]

. BAL - ILB C.J. Mosley could see franchise tag

Source: The Athletic - Jeff Zrebiec

Baltimore Ravens impending free-agent LB C.J. Mosley could receive the franchise tag as general manager Eric DeCosta said: 'everything is on the table to make sure he's back on the team.'

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Can't see the Ravens letting him hit the market. I can't see the tag number for an ILB being extreme.

 

[Solar7]

Keim signed them to contracts that neither could possibly outplay. They could only meet it. That’s not how you move forward as a franchise.



We’d never franchise him based on his play the last two seasons. We could probably sign him for half of what he’s making now, or draft a guy in the 4th round who could replace 80% of his production for 20% of the cost.

I find it mind boggling that after what’s happened in Pittsburgh, KC and St Louis people still think there’s a thing called an irreplaceable running back.

I find it mind boggling that after what's happened in Arizona for nearly 30 years, people still think there's a thing called a running back at all. He's the most talented player we've ever had at the position in the desert. For every James Conner, Damien Williams, and CJ Anderson, there's an Ameer Abdullah, JJ Arrington, or Michael Pittman.

 

[GuernseyCard]

We knew what we were getting in CC. We had no idea how Mathieu was going to be after his 2nd knee injury. We had no idea if Jermaine Gresham could ever reach where he was at in Cincy before his back surgery. I remember when we resigned Gresham that folks on here said "oh well, that's the going price for a TE in the league". In my mind, as an outsider perspective it was a no brainer regarding not resigning Gresham and Mathieu to those contracts. Also we should have franchised DJ until he hit 30 and cut him loose or cut him loose before then. I respect that Keim is trying to show other's around the league that Arizona takes care of theirs but jeez, it's crippled our franchise for years with dead money.[/QUOTE]

There is no evidence that I can see to support this conclusion.

 

[kerouac9]

I find it mind boggling that after what's happened in Arizona for nearly 30 years, people still think there's a thing called a running back at all. He's the most talented player we've ever had at the position in the desert. For every James Conner, Damien Williams, and CJ Anderson, there's an Ameer Abdullah, JJ Arrington, or Michael Pittman.

Or there's an Andre Ellington. Or an Adrian Peterson.

For all the supposed talent that David Johnson has, why were his stats virtually identical to Chase Edmonds?

There's a baseline level of talent you need to be an NFL running back, but everything over that is more dependent on the overall team.

 

[JeffGollin]

I find it mind boggling that after what's happened in Arizona for nearly 30 years, people still think there's a thing called a running back at all. He's the most talented player we've ever had at the position in the desert. For every James Conner, Damien Williams, and CJ Anderson, there's an Ameer Abdullah, JJ Arrington, or Michael Pittman.

Adrian Peterson?

Edgerrin James?

& you could make a case that Garrison Hearst was a commitment to draft a primo RB only to have a knee injury do him in.

& what about Chase Edmonds on the heels of drafting DJ?

The pattern suggests that the FO will take its shot at a really good RB when they feel the opportunity presents itself, but not as part of any overarching philosophy where they feel obligated to take a RB to fit a preset scheme.

 

[Solar7]

Or there's an Andre Ellington. Or an Adrian Peterson.

For all the supposed talent that David Johnson has, why were his stats virtually identical to Chase Edmonds?

There's a baseline level of talent you need to be an NFL running back, but everything over that is more dependent on the overall team.

Andre Ellington and Adrian Peterson are not good examples of players that could replace DJ. Andre's out of the league, and AP played all of what, three games for us?

Ellington didn't even break 700 yards rushing.

And I think we can all agree the scheme and coaching were terrible this year. Does it make any sense whatsoever in the situations that Edmonds was subbed in for DJ?

No, he wasn't dynamic as he was in years past, but he was also running behind an offensive line with zero starters.

 

[Solar7]

Adrian Peterson?

Edgerrin James?

& you could make a case that Garrison Hearst was a commitment to draft a primo RB only to have a knee injury do him in.

& what about Chase Edmonds on the heels of drafting DJ?

The pattern suggests that the FO will take its shot at a really good RB when they feel the opportunity presents itself, but not as part of any overarching philosophy where they feel obligated to take a RB to fit a preset scheme.

See above. AP did not play long enough for us for it to count for anything. He wasn't a replacement for DJ. Edgerrin James was alright, but we paid him top flight money for relatively mediocre production that late round draft picks are easily eclipsing these days.

I have no issue drafting a RB in the later rounds every single year, Edmonds is a whatever pick. But he's not DJ's replacement.

 

[BigRedRage]

See above. AP did not play long enough for us for it to count for anything. He wasn't a replacement for DJ. Edgerrin James was alright, but we paid him top flight money for relatively mediocre production that late round draft picks are easily eclipsing these days.

I have no issue drafting a RB in the later rounds every single year, Edmonds is a whatever pick. But he's not DJ's replacement.

I think the last regime was enamored by Edmunds intelligence and that is why he got playing time but DJ is simply better athletically and they couldn't see that. DJ has a known history of missing assignments, blocks, running wrong routes and more. I don't think he is the most intelligent guy. You have to simplify his roles so he can just put his athleticism on display.

 

[Solar7]

I think the last regime was enamored by Edmunds intelligence and that is why he got playing time but DJ is simply better athletically and they couldn't see that. DJ has a known history of missing assignments, blocks, running wrong routes and more. I don't think he is the most intelligent guy. You have to simplify his roles so he can just put his athleticism on display.

I don't think DJ is dumb by any means, but I can see that. I also think they wanted to prove they hit on a small school kid though.