Cool, Calm Collective - Leinart - It's Time

[cardsfanmd]

Sorry, but am I the only one who thinks Kurt would have been a bit better yesterday had he not been without 2/3s of his passing attack?

 

[SECTION 11]

Imagine how good Leinart would have looked?

 

[MigratingOsprey]

I still don't see it with leinart - i left after his first series and although it was a TD drive, he didn't look particular mobile out there, arm strength still looked suspect, he fumbled on a sack, botched a handoff and almost got a WR decapitated

i still stand by my pre-draft thoughts that his ceiling is average and as a seahawks fan would absolutely love it if he were the starting QB

 

[Redheart]

If the QB competition had been between Kurt and Matt this year rather that Matt and Brian...hmmmm...

 

[TJ]

I still don't see it with leinart - i left after his first series and although it was a TD drive, he didn't look particular mobile out there, arm strength still looked suspect, he fumbled on a sack, botched a handoff and almost got a WR decapitated

i still stand by my pre-draft thoughts that his ceiling is average and as a seahawks fan would absolutely love it if he were the starting QB

Your past assumption maybe held water a year or two ago, but he's proven to be a much more mature quarterback than in previous seasons. What were you looking for? 46-46 578 Yards 8 TDs? You are way off base brother.

If you dont think Leinart is mobile, than who is? He's not Vick, but he can get out of the pocket and make plays. Warner tried doing that and he got lit up by the defense.

Warner fumbled.....twice. No ones perfect

His arm strength was fine. More importantly, he was accurate. Most QBs that can chuck the ball 70 yards typically don't have good careers in the NFL.

Honestly Migrant, you need to watch the game again because myself and everyone else including the Warnerphiles saw quite the opposite from him.

 

[Redbird 78]

If the QB competition had been between Kurt and Matt this year rather that Matt and Brian...hmmmm...

Brian??? Don't even mention that bum's name.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Your past assumption maybe held water a year or two ago, but he's proven to be a much more mature quarterback than in previous seasons. What were you looking for? 46-46 578 Yards 8 TDs? You are way off base brother.

If you dont think Leinart is mobile, than who is? He's not Vick, but he can get out of the pocket and make plays. Warner tried doing that and he got lit up by the defense.

Warner fumbled.....twice. No ones perfect

His arm strength was fine. More importantly, he was accurate. Most QBs that can chuck the ball 70 yards typically don't have good careers in the NFL.

Honestly Migrant, you need to watch the game again because myself and everyone else including the Warnerphiles saw quite the opposite from him.

as stated, I left after his first series and was surprised to see everyone saying how great he looked

he didn't look all that great in that series and anything after that falls into the backups v backups who cares it's preseason mode (honestly, the first series probably does as well)

I watched aaron rodgers in that game and he is better than matt in about every aspect of the game - i would be excited to have him as a QB ....... matt, not so much

but only time will tell

i still think he's average at best

everyone pays lip service to how much improved he is, how much harder he works, how he's matured, etc ....... this story repeats every year and every year it's the same thing

maybe this year will be different

but if I were a cards fan I would be more hopeful that warner can get some protection and regain his grip on the ball than hoping that matt can make the jump

he honestly reminds me a lot of a former seahawk skeleton in Rick Mirer, so maybe that's why I'm little more skeptical than some ... although, unlike rick, matt has some weapons around him that can cover up a lot of his learning curve

 

[Shogun]

Wow. Leinart has a good game, shows some improvement and Warner fans start fidgeting and dumping bricks? Settle down. It's still Warner's team, but it's nice to see that we could have a more than capable guy to step in if/when he gets hurt this year.

 

[82CardsGrad]

as stated, I left after his first series and was surprised to see everyone saying how great he looked

he didn't look all that great in that series and anything after that falls into the backups v backups who cares it's preseason mode (honestly, the first series probably does as well)

I watched aaron rodgers in that game and he is better than matt in about every aspect of the game - i would be excited to have him as a QB ....... matt, not so much

but only time will tell

i still think he's average at best

everyone pays lip service to how much improved he is, how much harder he works, how he's matured, etc ....... this story repeats every year and every year it's the same thing

maybe this year will be different

but if I were a cards fan I would be more hopeful that warner can get some protection and regain his grip on the ball than hoping that matt can make the jump

he honestly reminds me a lot of a former seahawk skeleton in Rick Mirer, so maybe that's why I'm little more skeptical than some ... although, unlike rick, matt has some weapons around him that can cover up a lot of his learning curve

Ehhh.... just more of the same from the Kurt haters... The guy has been arguably the best, most productive QB in the league over the last 1 1/2 - 2 seasons, yet some just can't bring themselves to get behind him - sincerely... and the first chance they get to rip at him again, they launch...
This is really going to get interesting. I posted a poll in a separate thread that asked what people saw as the biggest risk to the Cards winning the west this season, and the loss of Kurt came out on top.
Still, if Kurt comes out of the blocks this season tossing TD's and putting up 300-yards games, but the team isn't winning - this is really going to get interesting...
The defense was and remains the critical issue for this team and the Packers exposed it once again last nite. Yet, the Kurt haters toss the loss on his shoulders... Too funny.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The Matt lacking arm strength theory is the crutch of the fan who understands little of football. 90% of the guys in the NFL don't have Jay Cutler or Carson Palmer arms.

Here is the reality of the situation. Matt's arm didn't all of a sudden get stronger this year (and it would be impossible to deny he has added zip on his passes this year and make the tight throw when he has had too so far this preseason)....its about knowing the offense and knowing where to go with the ball. He is delivering it with authority because he understands the system. Thats why you see less floating on his ball and the appearence of more zip.

I got dollars to donuts he has as strong an arm as Tom Brady. It only appears differently because no one knows their offense better then Brady.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Ehhh.... just more of the same from the Kurt haters... The guy has been arguably the best, most productive QB in the league over the last 1 1/2 - 2 seasons, yet some just can't bring themselves to get behind him - sincerely... and the first chance they get to rip at him again, they launch...
This is really going to get interesting. I posted a poll in a separate thread that asked what people saw as the biggest risk to the Cards winning the west this season, and the loss of Kurt came out on top.
Still, if Kurt comes out of the blocks this season tossing TD's and putting up 300-yards games, but the team isn't winning - this is really going to get interesting...
The defense was and remains the critical issue for this team and the Packers exposed it once again last nite. Yet, the Kurt haters toss the loss on his shoulders... Too funny.

Ill say this when he is throwing 6 INT games or if he is playing in the Super Bowl.

HE NEEDS TO GET RID OF THE F***** BALL AFTER 4 SECS AND QUIT TURNING IT OVER.

Most sane posters are not calling for Warner's head yet....but to just lean on "he was good last year so he will be good this year " and disregarding everything that has taken place since the SB is just plain stupid. Its not panic time but even the most ardent Warner supporter should be a little concerned. He isn't exactly 26.....

I wonder what the talk on the MB about Randall Cunningham was when he had a similar season 10 years ago with the Vikings. The parallells are almost too scary to think about.

 

[TJ]

The Matt lacking arm strength theory is the crutch of the fan who understands little of football. 90% of the guys in the NFL don't have Jay Cutler or Carson Palmer arms.

Here is the reality of the situation. Matt's arm didn't all of a sudden get stronger this year (and it would be impossible to deny he has added zip on his passes this year and make the tight throw when he has had too so far this preseason)....its about knowing the offense and knowing where to go with the ball. He is delivering it with authority because he understands the system. Thats why you see less floating on his ball and the appearence of more zip.

I got dollars to donuts he has as strong an arm as Tom Brady. It only appears differently because no one knows their offense better then Brady.

Quoting yourself,

"he speaks for me"

 

[Stout]

Ill say this when he is throwing 6 INT games or if he is playing in the Super Bowl.

HE NEEDS TO GET RID OF THE F***** BALL AFTER 4 SECS AND QUIT TURNING IT OVER.

Most sane posters are not calling for Warner's head yet....but to just lean on "he was good last year so he will be good this year " and disregarding everything that has taken place since the SB is just plain stupid. Its not panic time but even the most ardent Warner supporter should be a little concerned. He isn't exactly 26.....

I wonder what the talk on the MB about Randall Cunningham was when he had a similar season 10 years ago with the Vikings. The parallells are almost too scary to think about.

Ditto. If Warner was playing well in the preseason these discussions wouldn't be taking place. He's been awful, and I know myself and others are really worried that his hip is bothering him. It's a valid concern. Complete Warnerphiles accuse anyone who says one negative word about Kurt Warner of being haters. I loved Warner last year. I would love nothing better than to see that same Warner this year. So far, I am worried that we aren't seeing him.

Now, go ahead 82 and lambast me for that. I know you will.

 

[Buckybird]

I still don't see it with leinart - i left after his first series and although it was a TD drive, he didn't look particular mobile out there, arm strength still looked suspect, he fumbled on a sack, botched a handoff and almost got a WR decapitated

i still stand by my pre-draft thoughts that his ceiling is average and as a seahawks fan would absolutely love it if he were the starting QB

I'm sure you think Seneca Wallace is headed for stardom after Hassellbeck leaves too.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Those who choose to start a thread as ridiculous as this aren't worth the piss it would take to shower them.

Really? I have been pretty clear that I would like to avoid responses like this. Mokler, time to take a break until next preseason game.

 

[earthsci]

Really? I have been pretty clear that I would like to avoid responses like this. Mokler, time to take a break until next preseason game.

:EDIT:
The clapping smilie isn't for Mokler being temporily 86'd. I thing Chris is a great mod. Most of you are. Keeping control.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It's Warner's job...but it's good to see Leinart's made strides. I suspect we'll need him at some point this season. I've always been a believer, so I'm glad to see him working hard and even happier to see that it seems to be paying off.

I don't think it's fair to expect Warner to have another career season this year. I do think he's earned the right to not have people calling for his job three games into the preseason, though.

JMHO

Finally, the voice of reason. You'd figure Warner being the driving force to get the team to the Super Bowl would be sufficient for the Leinart jockers to use some common sense. Warner is a pro bowl qb, and will be the starter unless he gets injured.

I could understand the panic if it were a regular season game, but we're talking PRESEASON. Hilarious how the Leinart squad talks about the turnovers by Warner, yet completely glosses over the fact that Leinart had a fumble and a terrible INT against 2nd and 3rd stringers. I'm just happy that Whis is in charge, I trust he'll make the right decision in terms of who should be starting...I wonder who that may be....

 

[Duckjake]

Really? I have been pretty clear that I would like to avoid responses like this. Mokler, time to take a break until next preseason game.

One of these days the guy will realize that his attitude has done more to create Warner "haters" than anything that has happened on the field. At least IAWarnerfan will debate with you in a civilized manner.

Anyway I agree with Stout. I saw Kurt limping last night. Walking the same way I walk if I play too much golf and my hip starts to bother me. In fact my son said "Dad he walks like you" this morning while I was watching the replay.

We have no QB controversy we have QB heaven. Like I said before we could be watching a battle for the starting position between Byron Leftwich and Luke McKown.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Ditto. If Warner was playing well in the preseason these discussions wouldn't be taking place. He's been awful, and I know myself and others are really worried that his hip is bothering him. It's a valid concern. Complete Warnerphiles accuse anyone who says one negative word about Kurt Warner of being haters. I loved Warner last year. I would love nothing better than to see that same Warner this year. So far, I am worried that we aren't seeing him.

Now, go ahead 82 and lambast me for that. I know you will.

Stout, I'm not gonna "lambast" you as first off, you're entitled to your opinion. One that I most often agree with...
Second, I am not a Warnerphile... For me, I look at this way:

Warner has done things with this team that past 2 years that are nothing short of remarkable. He has more than earned the right to be the teams' leader. And I will cut him all the slack a potential hall of famer deserves until such time, when the W's and L's actually matter, he proves he is truly incapable of getting the job done...
More importantly, I just can't believe that you and so many other smart football guys have spent anytime at all discussing Warner after the game last night, when the defense was nothing short of horrific!
But - to each his own...

 

[Buckybird]

More importantly, I just can't believe that you and so many other smart football guys have spent anytime at all discussing Warner after the game last night, when the defense was nothing short of horrific!
But - to each his own...

My #1 fear headed into the offseason was defense...and still is. Pass rush specifically and that hasn't changed either. we lost the Super Bowl because we couldn't get Big Ben on the ground and my biggest fear played out in dress rehearsal.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'm not ready to shovel dirt on Warner's career, but he has looked like the 2002-2006 version of Kurt out there. Holding on to the ball too long, fumbling, sailing throws, etc. We all remember what happened after the last time Kurt lost a Super Bowl.

That being said, Matty looked like he was in cardinal and gold again. A few miscues but a great effort nonetheless. Get lost St. Pierre.

 

[Duckjake]

Stout, I'm not gonna "lambast" you as first off, you're entitled to your opinion. One that I most often agree with...
Second, I am not a Warnerphile... For me, I look at this way:

Warner has done things with this team that past 2 years that are nothing short of remarkable. He has more than earned the right to be the teams' leader. And I will cut him all the slack a potential hall of famer deserves until such time, when the W's and L's actually matter, he proves he is truly incapable of getting the job done...
More importantly, I just can't believe that you and so many other smart football guys have spent anytime at all discussing Warner after the game last night, when the defense was nothing short of horrific!
But - to each his own...

That was Whisenhunt that did the remarkable with the Cardinals. Warner did nothing remarkable in his first 2.5 years with the Cards. It was Whisenhunt who came in and developed the Kurt Warner we saw for the last 25 games or so.

(Sadly if you really want to look at it except for the last 5 games of last season what Warner did would be normal for any decent NFL team but the Cards.)

Even then this is not really Warner's team. He is the starting QB but this is not his team. This is Whisenhunt's team. I don't think any player has stepped up to make this "his" team. If they had maybe we wouldn't see games like Philly, NE, Minnesota or last night.

Right now Warner is the best QB for our style offense. Leinart will be the best QB for our style offense next year when Whiz finally has his stud hosses, BWells and Hightower, experienced and ready to run the rock.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

My #1 fear headed into the offseason was defense...and still is. Pass rush specifically and that hasn't changed either. we lost the Super Bowl because we could get Big Ben on the ground and my biggest fear played out in dress rehearsal.

Exactly.

This defense was not on Pendergast last year, there's only so much a coordinator can do if you can't get a pass rush off the edge with four guys.

 

[CreepyCard]

Really? I have been pretty clear that I would like to avoid responses like this.

I think you missed one by the OP.

But I piss on new Cards fans for breakfast..

???

 

[Duckjake]

Exactly.

This defense was not on Pendergast last year, there's only so much a coordinator can do if you can't get a pass rush off the edge with four guys.

Well, hidden in the "he got us within 2.5 minutes of the SuperBowl"responses to anything even minutely negative about the team are the concerns from the early part of last season that certain problems with the team still had not been fixed.

Players easily fooled by misdirection. Poor pass defense especially on third down/no pass rush, and penalties.

Yet we saw them all again last night.

I'm especially disappointed in the penalties because it seemed that the team had finally started to play a much more disciplined brand of football.

Pace has been gone for two off seasons and we still don't have even a decent outside pass rushing threat. Why?

Heck, Since Simeon Rice left after the 2000 season Bertran Berry is the only Cardinal to record double digit sacks in one season. ONE GUY in 9 seasons! Come on Keim get busy.