D-Backs and Pirates Series Thread

Dback Jon

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I'm glad some of the Phoenix sports media is fighting back against the national media

Gambo was pointing out that some of these writers have in the past applauded retaliatory pitches against players they don't like
 

Stout

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The Pirates have hit 20% more batters than any other team in the league. That's indicative of a team pitching philosophy that the other 29 teams consider too dangerous. For a Pirates pitcher hitting a batter by accident is equivalent to hitting a pedestrian on a sidewalk. You don't hit him if your not driving down the sidewalk.

Without the threat of retaliation it would be open season on batters. The threat of retaliation is why 29 other teams aren't driving down the sidewalk like the Pirates.

A lot of that's because they pitch inside a lot more than other teams. I do know that. I don't watch much baseball--because, well, it's baseball lol--so I don't know much about others we've hit over the years. Of course you need the threat of retaliation, but I know the Pirates have refrained from retaliation in the past. Chapman, that utter douchebag that I'd laugh if I heard he'd stopped breathing--hit McCutcheon in the head with a 99mph fast ball, and the Buccos didn't retaliate. We couldn't, because OUR pitcher would have been ejected, and we were in a race.

And, you know, even if the Pirates were everything you claim, that doesn't mean the action the other day wasn't utterly gutless and a douchebag move.

I'll speak to Goldschmidt's injury in a moment.

So in the last two years they have ended the seasons of two of our stars, but they still want retribution?

Get a grip.

Don't even start on Goldschmidt. It was a simple inside pitch, not even close to a bean ball, and one Goldschmidt turned INTO. Boo frickin' hoo. It happens in baseball. Waiting until the game is over in the waning outs of a game and then nailing a guy with a high mph fast ball in a dangerous area isn't retaliation--you do that right off the bat if you're retaliating. It's 'oh, the game's over, so we're just going to be douches and try to hurt someone on purpose'. The intent was CLEARLY to hurt, not to 'send a message'. Don't delude yourself.

The Pirates are the most classless team in the league - pretty rich complaining about the Diamondbacks. -= shows how myopic you are.

The Pirates are dirty, dirty, pitchers that plunk guys every few games - they deserve to get their players plunked back.


And you are skipping 82's post where he shows the Pirates doing the exact same thing two weeks ago.


Clueless Pirate fans.:(

Most classless team out there? From a d-backs fan?

:biglaugh:

Credibility = gone.

The bolded is hilarious. Simply hilarious. Are you new to the game of baseball? I can't get the esurance lady out of my head: "That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works."

Actually, you must be new, because that IS partially how it works. You're right, I shouldn't have said curve--but not a nearly 100mph fast ball. And retaliation occurs either right away or at the very beginning of the next game. They didn't come after him early, they ignored retribution. Since there was clearly no plan to plunk him unless the game was out of reach, it wasn't retribution. It was a cheap shot.


And no one's spoken to the cheating play from the last game. So, yeah, you guys are a real class organization.

Sorry, folks. You can condemn my team all you want, but this whitewashing of your team's horrific behavior is ludicrous.
 

Dback Jon

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Stout - only a homer would think the slide was cheating. Actually watch baseball and you will see that everyone slides that way
 

Stout

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Stout - only a homer would think the slide was cheating. Actually watch baseball and you will see that everyone slides that way

No, only a homer would think it wasn't cheating. Yes, runners commonly throw their arms up in the air during a slide, as part of a natural motion. They don't do so after they're already almost all the way down, especially when it's only one arm, and it's that specific arm, and they have to torque awkwardly to throw up the arm.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.
 

Phrazbit

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Yeah, whining about the slide is a joke. He put his left arm up as he slid in... something about 99% of guys do as they go into their slide. If he had made a slapping motion at the ball then it might be slightly suspicious, but he didnt. There was nothing wrong with that play, and while there is a lot of stuff that only some Dback homers are defending right now, that slide play is something that ONLY a Pirate homer would whine about.
 

Brian

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I don't watch much baseball--because, well, it's baseball lol--

Don't even start on Goldschmidt. It was a simple inside pitch, not even close to a bean ball, and one Goldschmidt turned INTO.

Actually, you must be new, because that IS partially how it works. You're right, I shouldn't have said curve--but not a nearly 100mph fast ball. And retaliation occurs either right away or at the very beginning of the next game.

And no one's spoken to the cheating play from the last game. So, yeah, you guys are a real class organization.

1. Glad you admitted you don't watch much baseball. I figured because your version of reality is one of someone I can tell doesn't watch much baseball.

2. The ONLY ones I have heard saying that Goldy leaned into it are those two idiot Pirate broadcasters that got their panties all in a wad when Cutch got hit.

3. I must be new to baseball. That's funny. That's very funny. I'll leave it at that. Also, see point #1 because you obviously don't know how this works. Sometimes players wait entire SEASONS before they get their retaliations. There is a time and a place and the players pick and choose that time and place. If you watched baseball, played baseball, coached baseball, or managed baseball you would know that.

4. Please don't come in here berating regular posters in this forum. I only ASK that because you admitted that you hadn't read through all 11 pages of it and THEN state "And no one's spoken to the cheating play from the last game." Well, if you HAD read through it you would see that it was spoken to alot. I called it bush-league several times and I'm still not happy about it.
 

Phrazbit

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Not sure if you are including me in that statement? I have said time and again over the past 2 months, that Towers and Gibby need to go.
I know I got labeled as a "supporter" of Towers, however, if you go back over the threads, my position was always that I wanted to give him THIS YEAR to demonstrate that his moves would pan out.
Obviously, they didn't and by all measurables, the team is worse than when he arrived. Hence - he needs to go! And Gibby!

My position on the subject matter in this thread is not so much about supporting "the team", as it is trying to get people who clearly have no clue about the inner-workings of baseball, to see that what this team did - is entirely in keeping with the way the game has been played for 100 years...

Dude, I know you've come around this season, but to claim you were not a "supporter" is a joke. You ripped into people who disagreed with the teams moves. You were not taking a "wait and see" approach when viewing those trades, you routinely accused me and others of blind hate and bias simply because we smelled the fire before the house burned down.

I dont really want to argue in circles about this, because you have come around on most of these topics. But... come on... characterizing you as "supportive" of KT, until recently, is being kind.
 

devilalum

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No, only a homer would think it wasn't cheating. Yes, runners commonly throw their arms up in the air during a slide, as part of a natural motion. They don't do so after they're already almost all the way down, especially when it's only one arm, and it's that specific arm, and they have to torque awkwardly to throw up the arm.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.

He didn't duck he threw his hands up in the air.
 

Stout

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1. Glad you admitted you don't watch much baseball. I figured because your version of reality is one of someone I can tell doesn't watch much baseball.

2. The ONLY ones I have heard saying that Goldy leaned into it are those two idiot Pirate broadcasters that got their panties all in a wad when Cutch got hit.

3. I must be new to baseball. That's funny. That's very funny. I'll leave it at that. Also, see point #1 because you obviously don't know how this works. Sometimes players wait entire SEASONS before they get their retaliations. There is a time and a place and the players pick and choose that time and place. If you watched baseball, played baseball, coached baseball, or managed baseball you would know that.

4. Please don't come in here berating regular posters in this forum. I only ASK that because you admitted that you hadn't read through all 11 pages of it and THEN state "And no one's spoken to the cheating play from the last game." Well, if you HAD read through it you would see that it was spoken to alot. I called it bush-league several times and I'm still not happy about it.

I appreciate your condemnation of the slide. I wasn't meaning to say no one had addressed it previous--whenever I brought it up, it seemed like people conveniently ignored it. That's all.

So you don't think that waiting until you're getting your butts handed to you at the end of the game isn't a douchebag move? Baloney. Players themselves may wait a long time to get their OWN retaliation, but pitchers retaliating against another team for plunking their players don't. Otherwise, the message is that you can plunk players and nothing will happen. I might not watch baseball all the time, but that doesn't mean I know nothing about it. That's plain as day to a casual baseball fan, and you know that's the case as well. Don't try to deny it. It was bush league through and through.

I'm not saying Goldy leaned into it, per se. He wasn't trying to get hit or anything. He instinctively started moving his hands into the swing, which moved his hands in slightly and kept him from getting out of the way. It wasn't his fault, and it wasn't the pitcher's fault. It was an inside pitch and one of those things that happen. It really sucks he got injured on the play.

I'm not implying you're actually new to baseball. I was just replying to stupid condescension with stupid condescension. You tried to patronize me and insult me, so I stuck my tongue out at you. Silliness for silliness.
 

82CardsGrad

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Dude, I know you've come around this season, but to claim you were not a "supporter" is a joke. You ripped into people who disagreed with the teams moves. You were not taking a "wait and see" approach when viewing those trades, you routinely accused me and others of blind hate and bias simply because we smelled the fire before the house burned down.

I dont really want to argue in circles about this, because you have come around on most of these topics. But... come on... characterizing you as "supportive" of KT, until recently, is being kind.


I'll stand behind my comments. And let's hope and pray that LaRussa is able to harness every ounce of his hall of game powers and works not one, but multiple miracles. It will take nothing less to put together even the slightest hint of a respectable major league franchise...
 

Brian

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I appreciate your condemnation of the slide. I wasn't meaning to say no one had addressed it previous--whenever I brought it up, it seemed like people conveniently ignored it. That's all.

So you don't think that waiting until you're getting your butts handed to you at the end of the game isn't a douchebag move? Baloney. Players themselves may wait a long time to get their OWN retaliation, but pitchers retaliating against another team for plunking their players don't. Otherwise, the message is that you can plunk players and nothing will happen. I might not watch baseball all the time, but that doesn't mean I know nothing about it. That's plain as day to a casual baseball fan, and you know that's the case as well. Don't try to deny it. It was bush league through and through.

I'm not saying Goldy leaned into it, per se. He wasn't trying to get hit or anything. He instinctively started moving his hands into the swing, which moved his hands in slightly and kept him from getting out of the way. It wasn't his fault, and it wasn't the pitcher's fault. It was an inside pitch and one of those things that happen. It really sucks he got injured on the play.

I'm not implying you're actually new to baseball. I was just replying to stupid condescension with stupid condescension. You tried to patronize me and insult me, so I stuck my tongue out at you. Silliness for silliness.

And the bolded is where I'm telling you that you are wrong. Ryan Braun got drilled this year and that went back to what Braun did in 2011. The casual fan might think the retribution comes or should come in the next AB or the next game but it's simply not true. McCutchen got drilled at the perfect time if you ask me.

BTW- I'm also on record in this thread saying that I knew it would happen and that I didn't want to see it happen. I knew Goldy getting drilled was an accident, but the Pirates needed to learn that pitching inside is dangerous and if you choose to do it and make a mistake, there is a price to pay. If you watched D-Backs baseball you would know that NOBODY pitches to Goldy inside because that is his white-hot zone. The Pirates played with fire, made a mistake, and now it's over.

Actually I wasn't trying to insult you with my initial question, I was trying to set the table with the appropriate facts. I'm never going to go into a tennis forum and start throwing around accusations because I have very little knowledge of the game or it's history.
 
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Brian

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Hey, Brian. Please stop saying NOBODY pitches Goldschmidt inside (or up and in slightly above the plate).

http://www.fangraphs.com/zonegrid.a...e=0&hand=all&count=all&blur=0&grid=5&view=bat

:mulli:

Yes, you dot Cutch in this situation with a fastball. But if you get the shoulderblade, expect the other side to be mad.

:)

Hey Mulli, watch almost every D-Backs game and watch where the catcher sets up for nearly every single pitch then re-visit this. Also re-visit this entire convo about where the pitch is supposed to go vs. where it ends up (which charts don't show).

My arguement in a nutshell is that almost no one intentionally pitches to him inside because as the chart you provided earlier shows he murders those pitches. Besides, I have already said numerous times that I felt the pitch was accident.

Look where Miggy gets drilled nearly every time. Almost the same spot McCutchen got it. The only difference being that McCutchen turned more (human nature, self preservation...I get it).

I would have a massive problem with the pitch if it was higher. Never aim higher than the shoulders.
 

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Hey Mulli, watch almost every D-Backs game and watch where the catcher sets up for nearly every single pitch then re-visit this. Also re-visit this entire convo about where the pitch is supposed to go vs. where it ends up (which charts don't show).

My arguement in a nutshell is that almost no one intentionally pitches to him inside because as the chart you provided earlier shows he murders those pitches. Besides, I have already said numerous times that I felt the pitch was accident.

Look where Miggy gets drilled nearly every time. Almost the same spot McCutchen got it. The only difference being that McCutchen turned more (human nature, self preservation...I get it).

I would have a massive problem with the pitch if it was higher. Never aim higher than the shoulders.
So funny. I will try to let this go. I really need to start the thread I was going to start about how LaRussa isn't qualified to rebuild a franchise, since he has never done it. ;)
 

Brian

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So funny. I will try to let this go. I really need to start the thread I was going to start about how LaRussa isn't qualified to rebuild a franchise, since he has never done it. ;)

I'm not really thrilled about that either. If the man has the power to fire KT (AND has never been a GM) then why allow him to operate around the trade deadline?

It makes no sense. "You destroyed this roster but we're going to trust you to re-build it".

IMHO there is a significant gap between manager and GM. LaRussa being good at one does not equal success at the other.

We'll see.
 

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I'm not really thrilled about that either. If the man has the power to fire KT (AND has never been a GM) then why allow him to operate around the trade deadline?

It makes no sense. "You destroyed this roster but we're going to trust you to re-build it".

IMHO there is a significant gap between manager and GM. LaRussa being good at one does not equal success at the other.

We'll see.

I will get some heat for this, but doesn't the LaRussa thing seem a little like letting Buddy Ryan be a GM? If not, it seems like something the Cardinals of old would do for show.
 

Brian

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I will get some heat for this, but doesn't the LaRussa thing seem a little like letting Buddy Ryan be a GM? If not, it seems like something the Cardinals of old would do for show.

I honestly don't understand the LaRussa thing. If he is in fact the smartest man in the room, then let him be the smartest man in the room and stop paying the dumber ones i.e Kevin Towers.

I'm not sure of the purpose of his position.

Injuries have played a MASSIVE part of the D-Backs 2014 season but those aside, this team is a train wreck.
 

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I will get some heat for this, but doesn't the LaRussa thing seem a little like letting Buddy Ryan be a GM? If not, it seems like something the Cardinals of old would do for show.

Is Buddy Ryan in the Hall of Fame?
 

82CardsGrad

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I honestly don't understand the LaRussa thing. If he is in fact the smartest man in the room, then let him be the smartest man in the room and stop paying the dumber ones i.e Kevin Towers.

I'm not sure of the purpose of his position.

Injuries have played a MASSIVE part of the D-Backs 2014 season but those aside, this team is a train wreck.

Just read that AJ Hinch tendered his resignation as the Padres Assistant GM... Wishful thinking??
 

BC867

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Well.... I love his voice, so, you know... I just might just to hear that voice every day! :p
The best!

I have been listening to Vin since I started following baseball in 1952 (two years after he joined the Dodgers).

The best!
 

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