Dansby wants Free Agency

[Cbus cardsfan]

Dont feel like reading all of the posts so not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but Hardy Brown is a very prominent Cards media personality who knows the coaches and watches every single practice. Also note Jurecki also brought up the same info just yesterday when they interviewed Dansby and got into a debate afterwards. Jurecki thinks he should get paid now, but just a few years ago, they nicknamed the trainers office, Dansbys Suite becuase he spent so much time there, and although he played in games he was taken out of a lot of snaps because he tapped his helmet taking himself out of plays often for so called minor injuries. Jurecki said that hasnt happened or been like that for two years now though. His partner Bickley wondered if that was because he was in contract years or not, Jurecki said that could be it but he thinks he has really matured as a person from two years ago.

if i remember right, was about 100% wrong on everything he said. That's why i didn't him any credibility. I, personally, don't care what Dansby does during the week. He could sit around eating snickers bars all week as long as he plays like he does on Sunday. That's what matters. There could easily be behind the scenes issues we don't know about but,if that were the case, i have a hard time believing the Cards would dish out almost 20 mill over 2 years. I guess my problem is that the Cards, if there were isssues, focussed on the negatives instead of what they guy brings on the field. I mean don't you think the Giants knew what LT's off the field behavior was like? You didn't see that as an issue when it came to re-signing him. I'm not putting in KD in LT's class but if he's your best defensive player, and he is, you don't let him become available to the rest of the NFL. The bottom line is,it's about what you do on Sunday's and KD has played at a high level from the beginning.

 

[Buckybird]

if i remember right, was about 100% wrong on everything he said. That's why i didn't him any credibility. I, personally, don't care what Dansby does during the week. He could sit around eating snickers bars all week as long as he plays like he does on Sunday. That's what matters. There could easily be behind the scenes issues we don't know about but,if that were the case, i have a hard time believing the Cards would dish out almost 20 mill over 2 years. I guess my problem is that the Cards, if there were isssues, focussed on the negatives instead of what they guy brings on the field. I mean don't you think the Giants knew what LT's off the field behavior was like? You didn't see that as an issue when it came to re-signing him. I'm not putting in KD in LT's class but if he's your best defensive player, and he is, you don't let him become available to the rest of the NFL. The bottom line is,it's about what you do on Sunday's and KD has played at a high level from the beginning.

People will not realize how good Karlos is until he's gone.

 

[Duckjake]

I guess my problem is that the Cards, if there were issues, focused on the negatives instead of what they guy brings on the field.

That's my beef with them as well. The numbers were there at the end of 2007: 3.5 sacks, 3 INTs, 4 Forced Fumbles, and 8pdfs in only 14 games. And he'd played well every year he'd been in the league.

But more importantly Dansby was a playmaker in the front 7 something the Cards have sorely lacked on defense for years.

Guys like that could play for me anytime. No matter how often they visited the training room.

Bob Sanders of the Colts is off the field almost more than he is on but the Colts signed him to a big contract anyway. Because they understand what he brings to the team when he is on the field.

 

[40yearfan]

I hope that is an inside joke.

Think about it. If he says yes, that means he was beating his wife, but has now stopped doing so. If he says no, that means he is still beating his wife. That's one of those "can't win" questions.

 

[40yearfan]

People will not realize how good Karlos is until he's gone.

That's my beef with them as well. The numbers were there at the end of 2007: 3.5 sacks, 3 INTs, 4 Forced Fumbles, and 8pdfs in only 14 games. And he'd played well every year he'd been in the league.

But more importantly Dansby was a playmaker in the front 7 something the Cards have sorely lacked on defense for years.

Guys like that could play for me anytime. No matter how often they visited the training room.

Bob Sanders of the Colts is off the field almost more than he is on but the Colts signed him to a big contract anyway. Because they understand what he brings to the team when he is on the field.

Don't get me wrong guys. I like Dansby and hope we can find a way to keep him. I just don't feel you can blame the FO for the situation we are in. Dansby is pretty smart. I wouldn't doubt but what he planned this whole thing out and is following his plan. He is still relatively young and will be a very rich young man come next season.

 

[joeshmo]

That's my beef with them as well. The numbers were there at the end of 2007: 3.5 sacks, 3 INTs, 4 Forced Fumbles, and 8pdfs in only 14 games. And he'd played well every year he'd been in the league.

But more importantly Dansby was a playmaker in the front 7 something the Cards have sorely lacked on defense for years.

Guys like that could play for me anytime. No matter how often they visited the training room.

Bob Sanders of the Colts is off the field almost more than he is on but the Colts signed him to a big contract anyway. Because they understand what he brings to the team when he is on the field.

Dont think anyone would disagree at this point in time. But note that all of this is on the coaches not the front office. It was the coaches for not just Green but also this Wiz staff that told the FO they STILL werent sure about Dansby as a long term big money player, becuase of all the issues already brought up. If you want someone to blame, blame the coaching staffs that gives their opinions on the players to the FO. Just like I blame the coaching staff for telling the front ofice Al Johnson was a good center and would be healthy, or that Laboy would be perfect for their scheme, and other player decisions.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I personally thought that Dansby would be gone this year. When the Cards slapped the Franchise tag on him I knew it was basically a one year rental. When Dansby saw what Calvin Pace got in Free Agency the $$ flashed in his eyes.

He will get a huge payday next year from another team. However that team will have to overpay by a large amount to land him.

I'm just going to enjoy watching him as a Cardinal for one more year and not worry about the future of Dansby with the Cardinals.

I agree with Joe however. I was a little surprised the didn't draft another player to groom to fill the void of possibly losing Dansby. Last year they brought in two guys knowing that we would most likely lose A. Smith.

 

[Duckjake]

Dont think anyone would disagree at this point in time. But note that all of this is on the coaches not the front office. It was the coaches for not just Green but also this Wiz staff that told the FO they STILL werent sure about Dansby as a long term big money player, becuase of all the issues already brought up. If you want someone to blame, blame the coaching staffs that gives their opinions on the players to the FO. Just like I blame the coaching staff for telling the front ofice Al Johnson was a good center and would be healthy, or that Laboy would be perfect for their scheme, and other player decisions.

Now that would make sense. If the new coaches thought it best to tag Dansby and wait then the FO did the right thing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Dj, you must be a politician. You are very good at taking things out of context.

Here's the whole statement:



As I have stated many times, hindsight is not applicable when talking about a certain period in time. It might determine what the actual outcome was, but it doesn't have anything to do with the mind-set at that particular time.

40, do you understand what "foresight" means? these people get paid to HAVE FORESIGHT. the same as those of us that were arguing to sign dansby long term a loooooong time ago. no one is talking about hindsight, and you even stated that "if the FO could predict the future" . . . it's what they're paid to attempt to do, try to predict the future as best as possible. they blew it here.

 

[Buckybird]

40, do you understand what "foresight" means? these people get paid to HAVE FORESIGHT. the same as those of us that were arguing to sign dansby long term a loooooong time ago. no one is talking about hindsight, and you even stated that "if the FO could predict the future" . . . it's what they're paid to attempt to do, try to predict the future as best as possible. they blew it here.

Amen!!!

 

[40yearfan]

40, do you understand what "foresight" means? these people get paid to HAVE FORESIGHT. the same as those of us that were arguing to sign dansby long term a loooooong time ago. no one is talking about hindsight, and you even stated that "if the FO could predict the future" . . . it's what they're paid to attempt to do, try to predict the future as best as possible. they blew it here.

This is your opinion. I have no problem with it, but you aren't going to convince me your right. I think the FO did everything they could given the facts at hand. One thing I do know. They made a lot more good moves then bad ones. I'm sure not going to berate them for any perceived wrongs after last season.

I spent a whole lot of years rooting for this team. Last year really exceeded my expectations and I hoping this year is even better.

 

[Duckjake]

This is your opinion. I have no problem with it, but you aren't going to convince me your right. I think the FO did everything they could given the facts at hand. One thing I do know. They made a lot more good moves then bad ones. I'm sure not going to berate them for any perceived wrongs after last season.

I spent a whole lot of years rooting for this team. Last year really exceeded my expectations and I hoping this year is even better.

So how does this answer Ouchie's remark that a FO needs to have foresight, ie be able to make decisions based on information from the past about what will happen in the future? Just like all of us do everyday.

Anyway the whole argument about why the Cards didn't do a new contract with Dansby after 2007 is settled imo.

If Whiz wanted to wait with Dansby then the FO was correct in tagging KD.

If Whiz wasn't involved and the FO did the tag based on the old early 2006 allegations from Green then they made a mistake.

At any rate we have one more year with our best player on our front 7 and then he's gone to join the long, but shorter in recent years, of top Cardinal players or draft picks on other teams.

 

[40yearfan]

So how does this answer Ouchie's remark that a FO needs to have foresight, ie be able to make decisions based on information from the past about what will happen in the future? Just like all of us do everyday.

Anyway the whole argument about why the Cards didn't do a new contract with Dansby after 2007 is settled imo.

If Whiz wanted to wait with Dansby then the FO was correct in tagging KD.

If Whiz wasn't involved and the FO did the tag based on the old early 2006 allegations from Green then they made a mistake.

At any rate we have one more year with our best player on our front 7 and then he's gone to join the long, but shorter in recent years, of top Cardinal players or draft picks on other teams.

According to you and Ouchie, if the front office isn't perfect, they don't have foresight? As I stated in my post, they have done a lot more things right then they have done wrong.

They have been using foresight to have kept as many players as we are keeping. And I still contend that given the facts at hand at the time the decisions were made, they did what any rational team would do. I can't fault them for that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is your opinion. I have no problem with it, but you aren't going to convince me your right. I think the FO did everything they could given the facts at hand. One thing I do know. They made a lot more good moves then bad ones. I'm sure not going to berate them for any perceived wrongs after last season.

I spent a whole lot of years rooting for this team. Last year really exceeded my expectations and I hoping this year is even better.

we're not arguing about their work as a whole, but rather just discussing this issue. i'd agree with you (and i know this is going to blow a TON of you koolaiders away), that lately they've been making more right moves (quite a bit more right moves) than bad ones. but that doesn't negate the fact that they blew this one.

as for "my opinion" . . . what's my opinion? that the front office's job is to have foresight in making personnel decisions?!? good lord i hope it's someone else's (read michael and bill) opinion too in regards to what they pay their FO for...

also, for all the facts on hand . . . you're basically taking the "scared" route. if there are any red flags the FO is supposed to back off? sometimes you have to gamble. and when the gamble is on a playmaker that produces, i think that's a good gamble. if the suns had taken that same attitude with joe johnson they would have lost him. oh . . . what? they DID lose him?!? that's what a scared FO does that doesn't use good FORESIGHT.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

they did what any rational team would do. I can't fault them for that.

i cannot disagree with you more on this one. most good-to-great teams (who wants a "rational" team, i want a "good-to-great" team) look at the guy who is their biggest playmaker in their front seven, recognize his warts, and make certain he's locked up long term. they take a calculated gamble on talent and production. a good example is the niners doing it with charles haley for the beginning of his career. another good example is also charles haley after they let him go. they missed his abilities and he continued to produce for the cowboys for a long time. he's a good example of both the right action (tying him up after his rookie contract) and wrong action (letting him leave because of non-performance issues) rolled into one.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

To me, the bottom line is that the Cards went into the past 3 offseasons with 25-40+ mill in cap space each year and couldn't get a deal done with their best defensive player. That's pretty sad. But,hey, at least we have Elton Brown, Ralph Brown, and Michael Adams back.

 

[football karma]

Interesting angle:

karlos is betting on the uncapped year.

but an upcapped year also means no new collective bargaining agreement, and that in all likelihood means a lock out after the 2010 season.

Thus --- if the 2009 offseason is uncapped-- as an NFL owner, would you pay a huge signing bonus to any guy who may play in 2010 and then have a work stoppage?

I just dont know if the rich deals players are hoping for will materialize. I sure wouldnt want to write a $25 mm check, and then not have an NFL season a year later.

 

[Cody]

it would be nice to get him to sign a decent contract but i really don't see that happening any time soon. i really don't care whether he leaves or not

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[Cody]

Interesting angle:

karlos is betting on the uncapped year.

but an upcapped year also means no new collective bargaining agreement, and that in all likelihood means a lock out after the 2010 season.

Thus --- if the 2009 offseason is uncapped-- as an NFL owner, would you pay a huge signing bonus to any guy who may play in 2010 and then have a work stoppage?

I just dont know if the rich deals players are hoping for will materialize. I sure wouldnt want to write a $25 mm check, and then not have an NFL season a year later.

since we tagged him, doesn't that mean he doesn't have any guaranteed money this year? (i know, stupid question...i just dont understand it that well)

 

[Duckjake]

since we tagged him, doesn't that mean he doesn't have any guaranteed money this year? (i know, stupid question...i just dont understand it that well)

Cody, Tag money is guaranteed so:

That's what all this discussion has been about. Instead of signing him after the '07 season for say $20 million guaranteed the Cards have franchised Dansby twice and paid him $18 million guaranteed for only two seasons instead of the 20 which would have locked him up for 4-6 years.

The pivotal point in the discussion is whether it was the Cards who didn't want the long term deal because of the rumors about Dansby or Dansby who didn't want the deal because he felt he should have a higher salary along with his signing bonus.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

since we tagged him, doesn't that mean he doesn't have any guaranteed money this year? (i know, stupid question...i just dont understand it that well)

actually, i think it's the opposite. the tag guarantees him all the money.

 

[Cody]

yeah thats what it is, it all must be guaranteed

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The latest:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/07/15/20090715spt-cardsdansby.html

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

this shows the difference in front offices:

The Cardinals told us the gap is just too big this year and that they wanted to see what the market was going to do with the economy," Dansby said. "But the [COLOR=green! important][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][COLOR=green! important][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Terrell [/FONT][COLOR=green! important][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Suggs[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] deal, that really opened a lot of eyes and the Ravens basically came out and said, 'We're not worried about the economy, because this is one of our core guys and he brings so much to the table.'


Graves can't possibly think that salaries are going to go down, can he? Especially for the elite players. It's funny that the market and economy didn't stop the cards from giving Warner 19 mill this year.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Hey, Terrell is a great guy and personally, I appreciate him because the deal he got can only help me. I'm definitely going to call him up, man, and thank him. He just opened some major doors for me."

Yeah, because you are as good as Suggs? Dansby will not be with this team next season, he will go to any team that ponies up the dough... But, if he really thinks he would get Suggs money he is in for a rude awakening unless he can notch at least 12-15 sacks this season and go to a Pro Bowl...