Dennis Green: How Would You Evaluate Him?

[conraddobler]

every team has injuries - they're part of the game - however, every team doesn't have such poor depth like we did and continue to.

Besides, we were getting the crap beat out of us before all the injuries - 37-13, 42-19 and losing a pathetic home game to the Rams while not being able to score a single TD, so it's not like we were gang-busters when we were somewhat healthy.

Macs teams could say the same thing about injuries- as could most of the league. Seattle lost ALL of their starting WRs for a good chunk of the year, NE, lost key pieces up and down their defense and along most of their O-line and had Corey Dillon banged up... I could go on and on about other teams, but consistently you hear that we are the only team affected by injuries. The Cards don't play in a vaccuum - injuries are part of the game - some teams are able to withstand them because they actually have depth/solid coaching staffs - last year we had question marks in both areas (OL coach being the biggest and most pathetic example).

I agree but I don't know if you're pinning that on Green or not?

Honestly, he's done very well at adding to our depth but it was astonishingly bad pre-DG.

Injuries hurt us more than other teams just because our depth was almost non-existant, it's much better now and has a ton to go, just to illustrate how bad it is, we still have a converted D lineman as one of our backup left tackles, that's pretty bad.

I'd evalutate him as good judge of talent and assistants, some of his first hires here were due to panic or lack of availability, and a mediocre in game coach.

His medicroity at game planning is best supplemented by quality assistants, so this year I expect we'll do better but if we have average amounts of injuiries it's going to hurt us bad because we lack depth, mostly on the O line and the LB's.

 

[Chainthroer]

On paper, Green has transformed this team to what ought to be a consistent winner. I’d have to give him an “A” for his last three drafts. His unrestricted FA pickups have brought us some first class and/or solid talent, together with questions on performance consistency that need to be addressed on the field this season. He started in 2004 with what turned out to be one of the biggest Cardinal signings ever in Bertrand Berry. He followed that with the Femi, Macklin and Tate signings (actually I think Tate was signed before Berry). 2005 was topped off by Chike Okeafor, along with Griffith, Orlando Huff (who has played well in the first two pre-season games this year) and Oliver Ross (hopefully he’ll come to the table with a better than last year season). Then in 2006, The Edge was the big signing, followed by Kendrick Clancy, Milford Brown, Mark Brown and Jack Brewer. I like, for the most part what he’s done. But, for now I’d have to give him an “Incomplete” for a grade. I think he and the other coaches are about there, but we need to see consistent wins before making the final positive analysis.

 

[Duckjake]

Injuries hurt us more than other teams just because our depth was almost non-existant, it's much better now and has a ton to go, just to illustrate how bad it is, we still have a converted D lineman as one of our backup left tackles, that's pretty bad.

Far better. When was the last time the Cards had a draft class where they did not need a single player taken to come in and fill a hole right away?

Drafting for depth. I never thought I'd live long enough to see the Cardinals do that.

 

[Mulli]

Far better. When was the last time the Cards had a draft class where they did not need a single player taken to come in and fill a hole right away?

Drafting for depth. I never thought I'd live long enough to see the Cardinals do that.

Amen, brother. Amen.

 

[JeffGollin]

I grade him an "incomplete."

He is what he is - the coach of a 6 & 10 NFL team.

We'll see what he is at the end of his make or break 3rd year.

Qualitatively, I think he and RG have evaluated and brought in more competitive talent than in the past, and he's installed a high powered passing attack and an aggressive defense.

But I also think his decisions on assistant coaches has been spotty and, in 2 years, he hasn't squared away a really bad offensive line. And personally, I'd rather see a more straight-arrow and less manipulative approach in some of his comments to the media.

That said - I'm optimistic that this will be the year he turns things around. Then he'll be what he'll be - perhaps a 10 & 6 NFL coach. Let's wait and see.

 

[Scot1]

Hopeful, but....

I'm really torn about DG. Certainly, he (maybe with help) has done very well with the draft, and well with FA. Our personnel seem a lot better (even though almost every McGinnis draft got good grades, and many of those years we thought we were over the hump personnel-wise.)

I'm not so sure he has done or will do the other coach stuff well. People have mentioned lack of half-time adjustments; the other thing that bothers me is his standing on the sidelines isolated and stone-faced, too much of the time.

When I lived in Milwaukee and he was with the Vikings, we hated him, of course, but also heard that he handled the team best when he could instill an "us against the world" mentality and draw them to him that way. Things are different here, and he doesn't seem to have forged any clear relation to the players--I have no special info about this, it's just an impression, and I'd welcome more info from anyone. Maybe the offensive line was especially traumatic for him here, with failures with Kendall, Clement, Shelton..., and maybe that's why his approach to the OT problem has been pretty slow.

Overall, he seems to have part of the great coach package, but not all. Part of the vital skills can be enough, if the situation is good, and it's improved--but enough? He seems to have enough limits that I'd give him no more than one more year, myself.

 

[Shane]

Cheesey is pretty much dead on.

It cant be argued that this team is far more talented then we have ever seen it. The only problem is that the coaching we have is just not on par. That is clearly evident with this team since green has taken over. We still have far to many missed tackles, far to many penalties, to many misran routes, or guys plugging the wrong hole, choosing to punt when we are well withing Rackers range for a FG, not challenging plays that should be challenged, challenging plays that shouldnt be, etc.... etc..... The list of coaching defiancies is long and distinguished since he took over.
There is a lot more to coaching than just upgrading talent. The coach must be able to mold that talent into a winning machine and it should not take any longer than 2 maybe 3 years at most to see that happen.

If Green comes through with another 7-9 or below season thus a losing one he needs to get the boot. There is no excuses anymore!

 

[Mitch]

The best talent assembler this organization has ever had. Bar none.

Needs top flight assistants to win with the talent he assembles...not a hands-on coach...is a delegator...

That said, his hiring decisions for assistant coaches have been questionable...he struck gold with Clancy Pendergast...but struck out with Bob Wylie (whom he fired in mid-season), Everett Lindsay (Wylie's replacement...a roster cut, coaching novice), OC Alex Wood (who was far too inexperienced and under-qualified), STC Kevin O'Dea (who did well for the kicking game, but not well at all in the return coverages)...

His decision to hire OC Keith Rowen was risky...while Rowen coached for Green in the past, he never called a play in an NFL game...his play calling last year was questionable, especially in the red zone, where he failed to take advantage of the team's strengths (as in his suprising reluctance to throw corner fades to Boldin and Fitzgerald)...his run calls were totally predictable and not particularly well conceived...

The game decisions that Green does make himself have been consistently questionable...he seems to have a very tenuous grasp of clock management...the two-minute drills have been slow and far too deliberate and time consuming...poor use of timeouts...and in some games it appeared as if he threw in the towel when there was still an inkling of a chance that the team could get back into the game...such as electing to punt, down 14 to Detroit, with 5:30 left and one timeout...

In game adjustments have been either late or undiscernable...halftimes have been wasted on a consistent basis as the team makes no perceivable adjustments and comes out flat, when one would think someone would have tried to light a fire under them...or something...anything....for example, how many times have Green's Cardinals been stuffed in the runnning game (especially on first downs) repeatedly in the first half, and follwoing halftime they receive the kickoff and then run the same old dive play for zero or negative yards on the first play from scrimmage? It's absolutlely mind boggling.

Decisions such as electing to bench a QB in mid-season that had won two of the last three games to get the team to 4-5...the night before a game, no less...in the hotel lobby, no less...have to be scrutinized...and those type of decisions deserve no mulligans...

Green's fortunes would seem to rest squarely in the hands of Rowen, new offensive line coach, Steve Loney, and new special teams coach, Gary Zauner. The good news is that Loney and Zauner have quality experience at their respective roles. However, if the team's ability to win is once again hampered by poor offensive line play, egregious clock management and backbreaking setbacks in special teams, the Bidwills may have to make some changes...even perhaps retaining Green as Director of Personnel (a job that is tailor made for him)...and hiring a coach who can improve the team's performance on the field...

If it does come to that...the guy I would think that would be very high on the team's radar is Tennessee Titans' OC Norm Chow, Matt Leinart's OC at USC for 2 NCAA Championships.

 

[Duckjake]

It has long been rumored that the Cards couldn't or wouldn't pay enough to attract a full slate of quality assistant coaches. Like many of their business practices word is that has changed. I wonder how much that has affected Green's choices for assistant coaches.

 

[Mitch]

It has long been rumored that the Cards couldn't or wouldn't pay enough to attract a full slate of quality assistant coaches. Like many of their business practices word is that has changed. I wonder how much that has affected Green's choices for assistant coaches.

That's an excellent question, Duckjake...

It would be hard to believe, however, that the Bidwills would turn Green down if he said to them, "Look, I need an experienced play caller as offensive coordinator."

Judging from the Cardinals' recent history of hiring totally inexperienced OCs...from Rich Olsson to Jerry "I Don't Want the Job" Sullivan to Alex Wood to Keith Rowen...all Green would have to do is point back to the last experienced play caller the Cardinals had: Marc Trestman...who certainly wasn't the most astute, but he did help the Cardinals earn a rare playoff berth in 1998.

Green actually believes that novices such as Everett Lindsay can be effective right away...remember, Green wanted to hire Sean Salisbury, his ESPN colleague, as his QB coach...now THAT would have been interesting!

 

[Shane]

It has long been rumored that the Cards couldn't or wouldn't pay enough to attract a full slate of quality assistant coaches. Like many of their business practices word is that has changed. I wonder how much that has affected Green's choices for assistant coaches.

No excuse for disciplne of the overall team or for the piss poor on field decision that have been made. That is all squarely on Green.

 

[Duckjake]

That's an excellent question, Duckjake...

It would be hard to believe, however, that the Bidwills would turn Green down if he said to them, "Look, I need an experienced play caller as offensive coordinator."

Green actually believes that novices such as Everett Lindsay can be effective right away...remember, Green wanted to hire Sean Salisbury, his ESPN colleague, as his QB coach...now THAT would have been interesting!

You may be right. What brought it up to me though was that the new stadium opens bringing more revenue and suddenly we have Loney and Zauner.

Could be that Green's choice for OC was influenced by his belief in novices and the Oline and other assistant hires by lack of funds.

Judging from the Cardinals' recent history of hiring totally inexperienced OCs...from Rich Olsson to Jerry "I Don't Want the Job" Sullivan to Alex Wood to Keith Rowen...all Green would have to do is point back to the last experienced play caller the Cardinals had: Marc Trestman...who certainly wasn't the most astute, but he did help the Cardinals earn a rare playoff berth in 1998.

That's giving Bill Bidwill far too much credit.

(SHANE H): No excuse for disciplne of the overall team or for the piss poor on field decision that have been made. That is all squarely on Green.

Wouldn't that depend on how much Green delegates to his assistants? Of course as head coach everything really falls on his shoulders no matter who is making the actual calls.

 

[Russ Smith]

It has long been rumored that the Cards couldn't or wouldn't pay enough to attract a full slate of quality assistant coaches. Like many of their business practices word is that has changed. I wonder how much that has affected Green's choices for assistant coaches.

Sure but that in no way excuses the situation with Wylie and Lindsay. he hired Wylie and then fired him early in the year supposedly over a disagreement on "how we do things." We don't know for sure what that means but if it means Wylie has a certain idea of blocking schemes and Green doesn't agree, how in the hell did he hire Wylie in the first place? Wylie may not have been the top guy in the NFL but he was a guy with a track record he was not the cheapest guy available hire. So Green didn't miss on Wylie over money, he did with Lindsay but again that was only necessary because he missed on Wylie.

Alex Wood yeah money may have played a role, some of the others possibly too who knows, but the OL coach situation near as we know he simply completely botched his first 2 hires.

 

[Duckjake]

Alex Wood yeah money may have played a role, some of the others possibly too who knows, but the OL coach situation near as we know he simply completely botched his first 2 hires.

Of course it could also be that nobody wanted to work in Arizona and Green had to take what he could that first year. After the fiasco with Tobin, the horrible 2002-2003 off-season, the Cards overall reputation as the backwater of the NFL, why on earth would any good assistant want to work in Phoenix?

Unless they got paid the "crummy team premium" of course and there probably wasn't any money for that until now.

Have to agree that the entire Offensive Line situation has been a mess since Green arrived (but when hasn't it been a mess?). You would think we'd be farther along in fixing it.

Really bothers me that the things that were a weakness at the end of 2004 were still the weak spots at the end of 2005. Oline,penalties and Special Teams coverage. Hopefully Zauner will fix ST, the Oline is still a mess, and we'll have to wait until they play for real to see about the penalties.

 

[Russ Smith]

Of course it could also be that nobody wanted to work in Arizona and Green had to take what he could that first year. After the fiasco with Tobin, the horrible 2002-2003 off-season, the Cards overall reputation as the backwater of the NFL, why on earth would any good assistant want to work in Phoenix?

.

Possibly true I just go back to Green repeatedly while working for ESPN saying he'd essentially already lined up a list of coaches to work for him when he took his next job. But maybe he was just unable to get any of the OL coaches on that list and hired Wylie because he at least had experience.

Of course I still wonder if Wylie was actually the problem, we keep hearing stuff about how the cards schemes were so outdated, I've always suspected Wylie felt that way too and that was his disagreement with Green?

Loney has a good reputation so hopefully he's finally going to get the OL turned around. Won't be overnight but if he can do it we can be a playoff team this year, if he can't could be another really disappointing year.

 

[Duckjake]

Loney has a good reputation so hopefully he's finally going to get the OL turned around. Won't be overnight but if he can do it we can be a playoff team this year, if he can't could be another really disappointing year.

I'm a big Gary Zauner fan. What do you think about that hire? I'm hoping we'll be far more competitive just from vastly improved special teams play. They have already looked better this preseason.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm a big Gary Zauner fan. What do you think about that hire? I'm hoping we'll be far more competitive just from vastly improved special teams play. They have already looked better this preseason.

His rep is good and yes so far ST has looked great in the preseason. you can actually see coaching on returns, we're not just running around with our heads cut off we're actually doing right return, middle return, left return etc.

Coverage looks better so far too, that killed us last year.