Does Anyone Expect A Season?

[Griffin]

I think Fisher and the executive committee is completely misrepresenting the majority position. Most players would take the current deal and that's why Fisher won't let them vote on it. Imo, the majority of the 450 or so NBA players couldn't care less about the remaining system issues since they would never apply to them.

But Fisher is not representing the average NBA player's interest, he is representing the elite few, and clearly those players get more say. So the union is willing to even further compromise on the BRI split, which affects every NBA player and especially affects those without big endorsement deals or not playing in big markets to offset the salary loss, so that the few higher-priced players can always have the option of forcing their way onto a big market team without sacrificing any salary.

 

[SunsTzu]

According to Marc Stein only 16 teams agree with the present deal being offered to players. If true it's unlikely the players will get a better deal, the longer this thing drags on the more money the owners will try to recoup.

I'm really interested in the type of system changes the owners are proposing that the players are fighting so hard against. Only rumors I've heard is that the penalty will be much harsher for going into tax range making it less likely teams will use their exceptions.

 

[sunsfan88]

Who's our rep from the union? Nash? Hill? Dudley?

 

[Griffin]

Who's our rep from the union? Nash? Hill? Dudley?

It's Dudley.

 

[carey]

It's Dudley.

We have co-representatives. It's Dudley & Childress. Josh was the one in NY on Monday for the mandatory rep meeting.

 

[Griffin]

Twitter update:

Steve Nash: At Puss n Boots with my girls. If the lock out ends can somebody text me or something?

 

[Mainstreet]

No deal done. Make it stop. End it already.

Negotiations may resume next week.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7217801/nba-lockout-nba-players-union-conclude-thursday-deal

 

[Griffin]

No deal done. Make it stop. End it already.
Negotiations may resume next week.

NBA did improve their offer and from watching the union's press conference I get the feeling that Fisher and Hunter will recommend that players accept this revised offer, even though they won't say it right now. I think they realize this is as far as NBA will bend.

 

[Mainstreet]

NBA did improve their offer and from watching the union's press conference I get the feeling that Fisher and Hunter will recommend that players accept this revised offer, even though they won't say it right now. I think they realize this is as far as NBA will bend.

This seems logical based upon reading an article this morning. I'm thinking there is hope an agreement can be reached once the players get exposed to it next week. However, who knows with this soap opera. A 72 game schedule appears to be on the table.

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=azcentral&sParam=37916759.story

 

[Cheesebeef]

i'll be really pissed if there's a season. screw the Suns and the NBA.

Man, i really hate Phoenix sports right now.

 

[Superbone]

RT @MikeWellsNBA: Pacers player rep Danny Granger said early indications are that the league's latest offer will be rejected by union.

 

[Griffin]

This seems logical based upon reading an article this morning. I'm thinking there is hope an agreement can be reached once the players get exposed to it next week. However, who knows with this soap opera. A 72 game schedule appears to be on the table.

The problem is, there is a lot of misinformation out there and the players are already forming their opinions based on what they hear and read in the media as opposed to what's actually in the NBA's proposal. Some sources indicate that players are likely to reject the offer. But we only seem to hear from prominent players who make good money, we never hear from those playing for the minimum or close to it, which is a large block of the players' union.

The revised proposal is reportedly similar to the previous one, but it improves the mini mid-level exception for tax-paying teams to $3M every year, up from $2.5 every other year. It also allows tax-paying teams to make sign-and-trades for the next two years, which should appease the huge free agent class of 2012 (and also make it easier for the Suns to sign-and-trade Nash to a contender if it comes to that).

However, the media seems to have zeroed in on a previously unmentioned clause that would allow teams to send players to the D-League for up to five years (currently it's only first two years, I think) and, more importantly, reduce their (rookie-scale) salary to prorated $75,000/year while in the D-League. This has some players already up in arms, but what these sources did not mention yet (and only Ric Bucher did in his latest tweet) is that this provision is from the B-list of issues that are still unresolved and can be negotiated regardless of whether the A-list issues, the deal-breakers, are accepted or not. The way I see it, and I think Stern alluded to it during the press conference, is that they are only seeking a yes/no on the A-list of issues which include the BRI split and the luxury-tax restrictions, and which, if agreed upon, can get the season preparations started, while the B-list of issues can be resolved later as those issues won't jeopardize the start of season. But the media hasn't really picked up on that and are feeding players misinformation that could potentially affect their position.

 

[Cheesebeef]

RT @MikeWellsNBA: Pacers player rep Danny Granger said early indications are that the league's latest offer will be rejected by union.

good.

 

[Mainstreet]

The problem is, there is a lot of misinformation out there and the players are already forming their opinions based on what they hear and read in the media as opposed to what's actually in the NBA's proposal. Some sources indicate that players are likely to reject the offer. But we only seem to hear from prominent players who make good money, we never hear from those playing for the minimum or close to it, which is a large block of the players' union.

The revised proposal is reportedly similar to the previous one, but it improves the mini mid-level exception for tax-paying teams to $3M every year, up from $2.5 every other year. It also allows tax-paying teams to make sign-and-trades for the next two years, which should appease the huge free agent class of 2012 (and also make it easier for the Suns to sign-and-trade Nash to a contender if it comes to that).

However, the media seems to have zeroed in on a previously unmentioned clause that would allow teams to send players to the D-League for up to five years (currently it's only first two years, I think) and, more importantly, reduce their (rookie-scale) salary to prorated $75,000/year while in the D-League. This has some players already up in arms, but what these sources did not mention yet (and only Ric Bucher did in his latest tweet) is that this provision is from the B-list of issues that are still unresolved and can be negotiated regardless of whether the A-list issues, the deal-breakers, are accepted or not. The way I see it, and I think Stern alluded to it during the press conference, is that they are only seeking a yes/no on the A-list of issues which include the BRI split and the luxury-tax restrictions, and which, if agreed upon, can get the season preparations started, while the B-list of issues can be resolved later as those issues won't jeopardize the start of season. But the media hasn't really picked up on that and are feeding players misinformation that could potentially affect their position.

I can't see the owners holding tight to the proposed D-League provision. I think the A-list issues will prevail and the B-list issues will be satisfactorily resolved. I agree, I don't think the more vocal prominent players will prevail if the rank and file NBA players get a chance to vote on it which I think they will.

 

[Griffin]

One source indicates that the players would approve the new proposal if given a chance. Of course I think it's also likely they would have approved the last proposal too.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216503/Source_Players_Would_Approve_Owners_Latest_Proposal

I guess we'll see if the union executives and team reps will let all the players have a say in this, or will only a few select players get to make all the decisions.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Listening to Stern on the radio. He said that if the players decertify the union, EVERY contract becomes null because every NBA contract has verbage written into it that requires the union to be viable for the contract to be so.

If they decertify, everything is over. The owners will be free of every contract and will begin signing whoever will play for them at whatever price they can get. It would be an absolutle free for all.

 

[overseascardfan]

Listening to Stern on the radio. He said that if the players decertify the union, EVERY contract becomes null because every NBA contract has verbage written into it that requires the union to be viable for the contract to be so.

If they decertify, everything is over. The owners will be free of every contract and will begin signing whoever will play for them at whatever price they can get. It would be an absolutle free for all.

Game, set, match....owners.

 

[Mainstreet]

Game, set, match....owners.

As I said on the other thread, the owners lose huge as well. The owners need the players union and a set of rules to operate a competitive league. As I view it, it would be the collapse of the NBA in everything perhaps name only. Maybe only something like 10-15 teams (just throwing numbers out there) could compete. The haves and the have nots. A players union would have to be reformed.

 

[overseascardfan]

As I said on the other thread, the owners lose huge as well. The owners need the players union and a set of rules to operate a competitive league. As I view it, it would be the collapse of the NBA in everything perhaps name only. Maybe only something like 10-15 teams (just throwing numbers out there) could compete. The haves and the have nots. A players union would have to be reformed.

Believe me when I say this is exactly what the owner's want. They will still make money otherwise they would have caved in. They are all business men who know they have all the leverage.

 

[PetryJr]

Have you guys read what Etan Thomas wrote on ESPN.com? He sent 23 questions to the owners. Actually, the way I see it, they were directed at the fans. Here's the link:

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7223340/etan-thomas-questions-nba-labor-negotiations

I created a blog and posted answers to each of the questions, from a fan's perspective. It was probably a waste of time, but if you guys would like to take a look, it's here:

http://answertoetanthomas.blogspot.com/

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Have you guys read what Etan Thomas wrote on ESPN.com? He sent 23 questions to the owners. Actually, the way I see it, they were directed at the fans. Here's the link:

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7223340/etan-thomas-questions-nba-labor-negotiations

I created a blog and posted answers to each of the questions, from a fan's perspective. It was probably a waste of time, but if you guys would like to take a look, it's here:

http://answertoetanthomas.blogspot.com/

Good read.

 

[Griffin]

Here is the official NBA summary for the three proposals: the original offer from two weeks ago, the revised offer from last week, and the "reset" offer that will allegedly come into play if this latest offer is rejected.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/14/sports/basketball/20111114-nba-proposals.html?src=tp

 

[desertdawg]

The Players just told the Owners to take their deal and shove it, live on ESPN. Anti Trust Action being filed, taking it to court, no season, Nash will be 90 by the time he sees the NBA hardwood again. Oh well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

ka-Freaking-BOOM!

Bye bye NBA!

 

[Covert Rain]

Did you read how Stern said they would try and win fans back??? Good luck with that.