Does Keim Have The Guts to Trade Up In the First Round?

[Solar7]

We can definitely agree that he's not making that move. Not in a million years. And, sure, you can set your franchise back quite a bit if you miss on a big trade up. That's why it's called a risk. You have to have faith in your own ability to evaluate the player.

I absolutely HATE Keim's quote there, which is perfectly representative of why I don't think he has the guts as a GM. "Are you willing to put the franchise in a position to be set back for years if you're not right?" Dude, it is your fricking JOB to make those tough calls. If you can't make those kinds of calls on a player, then why the hell are you a GM?

I mean, Keim's more than confident enough to think he's smarter than everyone else in the league and reach in the first round--because there's not as much at stake. Oh, we missed on another 1st rounder...oh well, it's just one pick. Willingness to take small risks but a clear, now quoted/stated aversion to putting himself out there in a big way? That's clearly lacking guts to me.




And you're quoting...? Quoting without the actual quote is...?



In other words, he's with the gutless group. See, I can poach and make silly comments too

And the point is, as of right now, his evaluation of the players is that they're not the right fit. That is why it is his job to make those tough calls, and say "this guy isn't worth it" instead of "oh no, I'm worried people will think I don't have the guts! I'd better make a wild, uncalculated move so it looks like I'm bold and daring!"

Wildly making flashy moves is how you fast track yourself for the unemployment line.

 

[GuernseyCard]

We can definitely agree that he's not making that move. Not in a million years. And, sure, you can set your franchise back quite a bit if you miss on a big trade up. That's why it's called a risk. You have to have faith in your own ability to evaluate the player.

I absolutely HATE Keim's quote there, which is perfectly representative of why I don't think he has the guts as a GM. "Are you willing to put the franchise in a position to be set back for years if you're not right?" Dude, it is your fricking JOB to make those tough calls. If you can't make those kinds of calls on a player, then why the hell are you a GM?

I mean, Keim's more than confident enough to think he's smarter than everyone else in the league and reach in the first round--because there's not as much at stake. Oh, we missed on another 1st rounder...oh well, it's just one pick. Willingness to take small risks but a clear, now quoted/stated aversion to putting himself out there in a big way? That's clearly lacking guts to me.




And you're quoting...? Quoting without the actual quote is...?


In other words, he's with the gutless group. See, I can poach and make silly comments too

Quoting you saying that Keim's refusal to move up in this draft is "beyond a fatal flaw." and we can take it that those of us who share Keim's aversion to giving up the top of a couple of drafts in the 50/50 hope of finding that elusive QBOTF share this faulty DNA.

 

[GimmedaBall]

If there is a QB on the board that is the BPA on the Card's draft board at that pick, SK will take him. If not, he'll take someone else who is the BPA on the Card's draft board at that pick.

SK and SW both have 4 year contracts to make it work. Live with it.

 

[Lagerfilled]

If there is a QB on the board that is the BPA on the Card's draft board at that pick, SK will take him. If not, he'll take someone else who is the BPA on the Card's draft board at that pick.

SK and SW both have 4 year contracts to make it work. Live with it.

Precisely! While one of Keim’s jobs is to find a QBOTF, his primary role is to build a championship roster while mitigating risk to the organization. It’s a HUGE responsibility and one that I personally wouldn’t want.

If he drafts a QBOTF and that individual fails, he gets fired. If he doesn’t draft one and the team has QB issues, he gets fired.

In the off chance that he does go all-in this year and gets “his guy” for the next decade at QB, then all bets are off. Either way, it’s gonna be a hell of a ride. Enjoy!

 

[Jetstream Green]

Heard his comments of regret, and an assortment of other cues and now think Keim is actually going to trade up for a QB if he slides. That is the plan. If Rosen or especially Mayfield gets past five... the Cardinals are pouncing to my shock and glee

 

[GimmedaBall]

Heard his comments of regret, and an assortment of other cues and now think Keim is actually going to trade up for a QB if he slides. That is the plan. If Rosen or especially Mayfield gets past five... the Cardinals are pouncing to my shock and glee

What other cues did you hear/read that leads you to believe SK is going to trade up if a QB slides?

Why two guys? Both Rosen or Mayfield with no preferenece?

Do the Cards have the trade ammo to move up past other teams? Rosen and Mayfield have both been linked to several other teams who are either ahead of the Cards on the draft board or who have more draft capital to trade.

How will the Cards muster enough from #15 to #5?

SK may put in a bid but will it be enough?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Because it seems they like Rosen and Mayfield (Baker if they had the choice) by how they acted and times they interacted and I am not going to look a bunch of reports up for you because I'm lazy, it's of course conjecture on my part reading through the lines when nobody tells the truth pre-draft, and I do not want to talk about the Wyoming kid haha. You bet they like Darnold like others but he will not slide past the top five. How are they going to move up is by giving a lot. Keim is talking now with a sense of his back against the wall and being apologetic which is out of his character, so he might actually do the trade in my opinion... or rather he is going to attempt the trade and weasel out again lol

 

[cardncubfan]

I can see the Cards trading with NY for the #2 spot & drafting Mayfield. I would love it if that happens.

 

[Buckybird]

I can see the Cards trading with NY for the #2 spot & drafting Mayfield. I would love it if that happens.

Stop teasing me like that lol

 

[Solar7]

I can see the Cards trading with NY for the #2 spot & drafting Mayfield. I would love it if that happens.

I thought you were my friend, my ally, and you go and betray me like this!

 

[HoodieBets]

I can see the Cards trading with NY for the #2 spot & drafting Mayfield. I would love it if that happens.

With the giants starting a new regime why would they drop from 2 to 15? I could see a drop to the 5-10 area but def not 15.


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[Solar7]

With the giants starting a new regime why would they drop from 2 to 15? I could see a drop to the 5-10 area but def not 15.


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Because to do it, they'd get 3 first round picks and a couple of seconds. They'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Because to do it, they'd get 3 first round picks and a couple of seconds. They'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

If they used those draft picks correctly. What if Mayfield is a stud, then we get the last laugh and we are still allowed to participate in free agency for what the draft cannot provide and have a QB on the cheap... bring on the draft and let the ceremonies commence

 

[Solar7]

If they used those draft picks correctly. What if Mayfield is a stud, then we get the last laugh and we are still allowed to participate in free agency for what the draft cannot provide and have a QB on the cheap... bring on the draft and let the ceremonies commence

I really do understand your optimism, your thought that all we need to turn this franchise into a perennial contender is a QB. The guy. That there is a miracle worker in our hands - a player so good that he transcends a lack of receivers, bad defenses, awful special teams...

...But there isn't. It's a team game.

We can play the "if they do this right" game into perpetuity, but the numbers don't lie. For this tactic to work will be a statistical anomaly. We would be one of the few teams to ever make it happen. I understand the thirst and desperation for good play at the position, but we have to be realistic at the end of the day.

Conceptually, this is us saying that we don't need to try to get a job, because we're going to hit the lottery.

 

[mojorizen7]

The proven percentages are that trading up is an astronomical failure for every single team in the past 20 years. With maybe two exceptions. Goff and Wentz. Maybe. We'll see what happens.

Not maybe. Both trades are already "paid for" by both teams (with the exception of one Philly 2nd rounder this year)...and the success of both teams and their QB's since the trade need not be debated.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Because it seems they like Rosen and Mayfield (Baker if they had the choice) by how they acted and times they interacted and I am not going to look a bunch of reports up for you because I'm lazy, it's of course conjecture on my part reading through the lines when nobody tells the truth pre-draft, and I do not want to talk about the Wyoming kid haha. You bet they like Darnold like others but he will not slide past the top five. How are they going to move up is by giving a lot. Keim is talking now with a sense of his back against the wall and being apologetic which is out of his character, so he might actually do the trade in my opinion... or rather he is going to attempt the trade and weasel out again lol

Thanks for sharing your imagination with us.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Not maybe. Both trades are already "paid for" by both teams (with the exception of one Philly 2nd rounder this year)...and the success of both teams and their QB's since the trade need not be debated.

Still have a ways to go on both Goff and Wentz. In the history of the NFL, there have been plenty of players who won a few games at the start of their career but then the D's catch up with their play. Ditto with the injuries that bring players crashing to earth.

Revisit both these guys in another year or two to appreciate their success.

 

[juza76]

Keim doesnt need to risk and moving up
He can keep his job for a long time just having this franchise in 6/10 7/9 8/8 9/7 range

 

[GimmedaBall]

I really do understand your optimism, your thought that all we need to turn this franchise into a perennial contender is a QB. The guy. That there is a miracle worker in our hands - a player so good that he transcends a lack of receivers, bad defenses, awful special teams...

...But there isn't. It's a team game.

We can play the "if they do this right" game into perpetuity, but the numbers don't lie. For this tactic to work will be a statistical anomaly. We would be one of the few teams to ever make it happen. I understand the thirst and desperation for good play at the position, but we have to be realistic at the end of the day.

Conceptually, this is us saying that we don't need to try to get a job, because we're going to hit the lottery.

Way too high expectations as to what a QB is capable of doing. It's a team game. There has to be a lot of other parts around even a top QB for the team to have success.

It is not a one-player will fix it world.

 

[Stout]

I really do understand your optimism, your thought that all we need to turn this franchise into a perennial contender is a QB. The guy. That there is a miracle worker in our hands - a player so good that he transcends a lack of receivers, bad defenses, awful special teams...

...But there isn't. It's a team game.

We can play the "if they do this right" game into perpetuity, but the numbers don't lie. For this tactic to work will be a statistical anomaly. We would be one of the few teams to ever make it happen. I understand the thirst and desperation for good play at the position, but we have to be realistic at the end of the day.

Conceptually, this is us saying that we don't need to try to get a job, because we're going to hit the lottery.

I think I understand why you're so hell-bent against us trying to get a franchise QB: you don't believe in the idea of a franchise QB. Granted, unless you get a top one, he won't be a ginormous difference. If you do get that top franchise QB, however, you're 100 percent wrong--they do turn you into a perennial contender. The all-time greats drag mediocre teams up to contenders just by being on the team. I get that you don't think it's a risk worth taking, but let's not pretend that we won't be perennial contenders if we do hit big on that risk.

And the point is, as of right now, his evaluation of the players is that they're not the right fit. That is why it is his job to make those tough calls, and say "this guy isn't worth it" instead of "oh no, I'm worried people will think I don't have the guts! I'd better make a wild, uncalculated move so it looks like I'm bold and daring!"

Wildly making flashy moves is how you fast track yourself for the unemployment line.

It's entirely possible that he doesn't rate any QBs worthy of the risk, but there's a huge difference between "not worth" the risk and won't be a franchise QB. I bet you he'd kill to have Darnold. Is he willing to trust that instinct, that he'd be a great QB? Absolutely not. And I'd give Keim a lot more credit for sticking to his guns if I ever thought, in a million years, he would be willing to ever take the plunge, but I don't. I think he could be the greatest QB prospect ever, by consensus, and Keim still wouldn't want to risk it. That's just who he is.

If there is a QB on the board that is the BPA on the Card's draft board at that pick, SK will take him. If not, he'll take someone else who is the BPA on the Card's draft board at that pick.

SK and SW both have 4 year contracts to make it work. Live with it.

Yeah, and will you come back to gloat if we go 2-14 and 3-13? Will you be so happy that Keim has a 4-year contract then, or will you be calling for his ouster? Yuk it up, buddy; your support of Keim's QB passivity means you're going to deserve our suckiness this year and beyond. Be happy with Bradford and Glennon.

Dear God, those are our QBs. That's so very depressing.

 

[cardncubfan]

I thought you were my friend, my ally, and you go and betray me like this!

Lol. I still am. I would be very happy if we came out of the draft with a stud D player at 15 & then trade back into the 1st for Lauletta. I was just saying I could see the Cards surprising everyone by trading up to #2 for Mayfield. If we get either Mayfield or Lauletta I would be happy.

 

[GuernseyCard]

My less than astute prediction from afar.

The QBs will go off the board in the following order:

Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson, Allen.

If Allen is available at #15, Keim makes him available and the possible partners are #16 Ravens, #17 Chargers, #23 Patriots, #27 Saints. Keim adds at least #3 rd pick.

Keim selects BPA in round #1 and picks his developmental QB in round #2 or #3.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Thanks for sharing your imagination with us.

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[GimmedaBall]

I think I understand why you're so hell-bent against us trying to get a franchise QB: you don't believe in the idea of a franchise QB. Granted, unless you get a top one, he won't be a ginormous difference. If you do get that top franchise QB, however, you're 100 percent wrong--they do turn you into a perennial contender. The all-time greats drag mediocre teams up to contenders just by being on the team. I get that you don't think it's a risk worth taking, but let's not pretend that we won't be perennial contenders if we do hit big on that risk.



It's entirely possible that he doesn't rate any QBs worthy of the risk, but there's a huge difference between "not worth" the risk and won't be a franchise QB. I bet you he'd kill to have Darnold. Is he willing to trust that instinct, that he'd be a great QB? Absolutely not. And I'd give Keim a lot more credit for sticking to his guns if I ever thought, in a million years, he would be willing to ever take the plunge, but I don't. I think he could be the greatest QB prospect ever, by consensus, and Keim still wouldn't want to risk it. That's just who he is.



Yeah, and will you come back to gloat if we go 2-14 and 3-13? Will you be so happy that Keim has a 4-year contract then, or will you be calling for his ouster? Yuk it up, buddy; your support of Keim's QB passivity means you're going to deserve our suckiness this year and beyond. Be happy with Bradford and Glennon.

Dear God, those are our QBs. That's so very depressing.

The difference is that you appear to want to be the GM and have SK do what you want. I am looking at his past draft history and the way SK assembles the roster and making my guess that he is not going to do a major trade up.

I am trying to figure out what SK will do----you are demanding that SK do what you want him to do.

I can't suffer to keep posting everything about draft history and the odds of success with such a move over-and-over. I don't want to sound like a broken record . . . a broken record . . . a broken record. . . a broken record.

There's a better chance that the Bradford-Glennon combo plus all the future draft picks in the bank will give us better results than an unknown NFL commodity minus all the future draft picks it will cost to get him.

Without our draft picks, we'll have no way to get cheap new talent on the team to support any QB that is on the roster.

If you want to aggressively jump from the cliff face to show your guts---fine. Chances are they will be in full view after you crash land on the rocks. I'm just glad SK doesn't have the same notion of 'guts' to run a team.

 

[GimmedaBall]

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Did you ever see the bio on Walt Disney that was on PBS?

He loved to play with model trains and had his studio make a miniature train set big enough to carry humans that he could sit on and choo-choo around his home. From that came the concept of Disneyland.

(Last time I went it was so crowded it took hours to get on the 'best' rides. One man in line suffered a heat stroke and passed out in convulsions. A couple of kids thought he was a new ride and jumped on his back until paramedics arrived.)