DRC and a 1st for Kolb?

[joeshmo]

Not for nothing, Joe, but where has Matt Schaub lead the Texans? He's put up pretty stats in their offense (chock full of outside and inside weapons as well as a good offensive line and a great HC/OC), but he hasn't taken them much farther than David Carr was able to. 7-9, 8-8, 9-7, 8-8.

The Houston Texans still lack any kind of leadership--especially on offense. That team is as soft as the Arizona Cardinals are. And that comes down to the guy playing under center having all the skills and weapons but not being able to lead when it counts.

Didnt say I would pull the trigger on either player just pointing out teams thought processes on this type of stuff.

 

[TJ]

Not for nothing, Joe, but where has Matt Schaub lead the Texans? He's put up pretty stats in their offense (chock full of outside and inside weapons as well as a good offensive line and a great HC/OC), but he hasn't taken them much farther than David Carr was able to. 7-9, 8-8, 9-7, 8-8.

The Houston Texans still lack any kind of leadership--especially on offense. That team is as soft as the Arizona Cardinals are. And that comes down to the guy playing under center having all the skills and weapons but not being able to lead when it counts.

Haven't you been really high on Andre Johnson's intangibles in the past, which include his leadership skills? This is in reference to your argument for AJ > Fitz in the past.

The Texans have good on-and-off field leadership. That's not their problem. I respect Kubiak as a coach, Schaub as a field general and Mario Williams. The vast majority of teams would love an offense like theirs (Foster, Schaub, AJ, Daniels....wowsers). They have two issues that keep them from getting to the next level: 1) Their defense is abysmal, which explains why 6 of the 9 first rounders in their short history have been spent on defense and 2) They play the Colts twice a year, who own the division in the first place.

So I agree with you in a sense that they are soft, but you're more accurate pinning that specifically on their defense.

 

[kerouac9]

Didnt say I would pull the trigger on either player just pointing out teams thought processes on this type of stuff.

I think the other thing with Schaub is that he got better every year in Atlanta (66.1 completion percentage his third season in the ATL), and he came out of a program (Virginia) where he showed a lot of pro tools. He developed despite playing for defensive-minded head coaches. Kolb came from a spread offense in Houston and then was tutored by a QB guru (in that he gets great production out of middling QBs) in an offense that's designed to put up numbers.

I was wrong about Matt Schaub, but I don't even see Matt Schaub when I look at Kevin Kolb. I think that Kolb maxes out at Matt Cassell, and might not even be that good.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I've thought all along that the best thing the Cards can do is trade next year"s #1 for Kolb AND sign Bulger as his backup. They would be set with all 3 phases of the QB position, young starter, veteran backup, developmental 3r stringer. The only reason that I would hesitate to trade next year's #1 is that it is such a potentially good QB class. That being said, if you draft one next year, you are still likely 3 years away. With Kolb and Bulger, the division is there for the taking over the next few years.

YES PLEASE.

BTW not to toot my own horn but I brought up a DRC for Kolb trade (assuming we picked Peterson) many moons ago. If I was any good at looking through my old posts, I'd prove it

 

[kerouac9]

Haven't you been really high on Andre Johnson's intangibles in the past, which include his leadership skills? This is in reference to your argument for AJ > Fitz in the past.

The Texans have good on-and-off field leadership. That's not their problem. I respect Kubiak as a coach, Schaub as a field general and Mario Williams. The vast majority of teams would love an offense like theirs (Foster, Schaub, AJ, Daniels....wowsers). They have two issues that keep them from getting to the next level: 1) Their defense is abysmal, which explains why 6 of the 9 first rounders in their short history have been spent on defense and 2) They play the Colts twice a year, who own the division in the first place.

So I agree with you in a sense that they are soft, but you're more accurate pinning that specifically on their defense.

But I don't think that a WR can "lead" an offensive unit. That was one of my critiques of Boldin in the past. I think that Andre Johnson is a different kind of leader than Fitz is, but not as good. But Andre Johnson is more dynamic physically than Fitz, and Fitz's leadership and character, IMO, don't make up for Andre Johnson's physical abilities. None of this is a knock on Fitz, either. I love Fitz and hope we sign him to a four-year, $50 million extension whenever the league year starts.

I think last year the Texans' D was soft because they lost their defensive leader DeMeco Ryans and Brian Cushing was sitting out because he was on roids, along with losing a lockerroom leader in cornerback Dunta Robinson in free agency. But the Texans with Schaub are a team built like the Cardinals with Warner or the Packers with Rodgers: the offense has to put up big points but the defense will do just enough to eke out a win.

The issue with the Texans isn't the Colts, per se. The play the Colts tough every game. The problem is that they have a hard time beating up on teams with good leadership and ekeing out wins against teams like the Colts (they're 1-5 against Indy the last three seasons). I think that in crunch time the team turns to Matt Schaub and they just don't believe in him to come through. In 2009 Houston only gave up 0.5 PPG more than the Cards did. But if the wins and losses in those close games come down to leadership...

 

[Dayman]

The Chiefs traded a high second rounder for Cassel, who was a more established QB. I don't see why Kolb is worth more. Kolb had a lower YPA than DA last season in a QB friendly scheme, he's only played in the WCO, he's in the last year of his contract and we're over two months into the offseason already. I'd rather sign Bulger and keep Hall at third string, and I can't stand either of those guys.

 

[joeshmo]

I think the other thing with Schaub is that he got better every year in Atlanta (66.1 completion percentage his third season in the ATL), and he came out of a program (Virginia) where he showed a lot of pro tools. He developed despite playing for defensive-minded head coaches. Kolb came from a spread offense in Houston and then was tutored by a QB guru (in that he gets great production out of middling QBs) in an offense that's designed to put up numbers.

Considering Shaub only threw the ball 27 times his final year in Atlanta, his fewest up to that point I dont think teams were looking to hard at his progression that final year considering the very small sample to draw from that final year.

Also never underestimate the HC ego in the NFL, and all of them have it, every last one. "That guy just isnt right for that system(west coast), put him in my system (what ever system that is) and he will shine."

 

[joeshmo]

The Chiefs traded a high second rounder for Cassel, who was a more established QB. I don't see why Kolb is worth more. Kolb had a lower YPA than DA last season in a QB friendly scheme, he's only played in the WCO, he's in the last year of his contract and we're over two months into the offseason already. I'd rather sign Bulger and keep Hall at third string, and I can't stand either of those guys.

Dont underestimate the friendships that were involved in that Cassell trade though. He was traded to a team that was made up of Pats cronies in the FO and Coaching staff.

 

[jw7]

But if you told me DRC for Kolb straight up I wouldn't even hesitate. A possible franchise QB has way more value to this franchise then DRC EVER will.

I agree with the second sentence but disagree with the first.

The Cards have a real possibility of an insane secondary with PP, DRC, A-dub, and Rhodes. That's really hard to come by.

I'm just not sold on Kolb as the QB. He had 2-3 good games and some crappy ones as well.

I know a QB is much more important position ceteris paribus, but If you have the possibility of building something special you build on the strength and don't disrupt it.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Am I the only one who thinks Kolb is a horrible fit in our system?

The guy is a west coast QB.

I live outside of Philly..... These guys can't wait to get rid of him. I would much rather have Palmer. Hasselbeck is a distant 2nd because he can atleast think quickly and throw like Kurt did.

 

[Bert]

Kolb has started a handful of games with mixed results, then he lost his job to Vick.

How does that equate to "starter" money and his value in a trade being a 1st round pick and a teams #1 corner? What did I miss? I'm not saying he's not good but jeez this has to be the most overhyped player in a long time.

I would take Palmer over Kolb and I still wouldn't give DRC and a 1st for Palmer. That's 2 first round picks.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

the one thing about Kolb that interests me the most is that I have never heard any personnell types say anything bad about him. They almost universally agree that he has what it takes to become a top QB in the league and is a very hard worker. I've heard guys like Pat Kirwan, Gil Brandt, Lombardi, and others all praise him. They have nothing to gain by it. You didn't hear praise coming from everybody when the talk was about Leinart, Vince Young, or others.

 

[Red Dawn]

One thing about these QB threads is the notable absence of the name Vince Young as an option, so I'll pour a little gas on that fire (not that I want him, just curious what everyone's take is on him).

He's in limbo right now, somewhere between being traded and being released. He needs a place to make a Warner-esque return from the dregs of controversy. With his wheels, he probably stands a better chance of being able to play behind our sieve-like OL than any other QB. He's a headcase, but maybe that's what we need to shake things up since Kurt left. VY might put some butts in the seats too, especially if he got hot.

Be nice.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Hell no

DRC alone-'NO

1st next year alone - yea and that's the best we will offer.

Take it or leave it. We can survive if not thrive with Bulger.

 

[ThunderCard]

I just worry that the #1 pick next year would be a Top 5. The best I would offer is a 2nd rounder. The two QB's I see doing best here are Carson Palmer and Vince Young

 

[ThunderCard]

One thing about these QB threads is the notable absence of the name Vince Young as an option, so I'll pour a little gas on that fire (not that I want him, just curious what everyone's take is on him).

He's in limbo right now, somewhere between being traded and being released. He needs a place to make a Warner-esque return from the dregs of controversy. With his wheels, he probably stands a better chance of being able to play behind our sieve-like OL than any other QB. He's a headcase, but maybe that's what we need to shake things up since Kurt left. VY might put some butts in the seats too, especially if he got hot.

Be nice.

I agree Red Dawn. Not a huge fan of Vince Young, however with his running ability we might be able to do some damage

 

[Duckjake]

I suspect it's not real. I looked at the wiki page and saw that is footnote #50. So I followed the link and the link is dead, supposed to go to his bio on the Eagles site but the page doesn't exist. So I went to the Eagles site and found his bio, and I don't see that comment anywhere on his bio.

Says he loves to fish and hunt, doesn't say anything about him hunting wild dogs.

So I'm suspicious that's valid.

It's not valid. If you look at the quote closely you'll see that, if true, it originally was referring to wild HOGS. Wild Hogs are a real problem here in Central Texas and can tear up an entire pasture in one night. People hunt them all the time and its not easy as the hogs are tough hombres.

Some wise guy saw the reference somewhere and thought it would be funny to add Vick and change Hogs to Dogs.

 

[JeffGollin]

DRC and a 1st for Kolb?
Someone has been raiding the supply of medical marijuana again.

For DRC and a #1?

How about Peyton Manning, Drew Brees or John Brady?

 

[chickenhead]

I am intrigued by Kolb but I don't want to give up DRC for him. I think sometimes teams err in pursuing an illusion of balance: like we have Peterson now so we can afford to lose DRC. Or previously, we have Fitz so we can afford to lose Boldin. <<Not to make this into a debate again: I was totally willing to see Boldin go, but I did love having that WR tandem on the field. I'm hoping I feel the same way about PP and DRC very, very soon.

 

[Pariah]

The word on the street was that Philly was looking for a first. Why would we offer a first AND a 3rd year starter who was drafted in the first? No, we may trade for Kolb, but we won't do this deal.

I don't think we'll be trading DRC at all. Right now the only possible player of import that I can see traded is Beanie, and he's far more likely to go to the Bengals, IMHO.

 

[desertdawg]

I still don't see DRC going anywhere. But I do think it is going to be Kolb, with draftpick(s) and maybe a runningback.

Kolb is right in between those 1st round draft picks (so to speak) and those QBs in the NFL that are established, once he plays this season, I can see Kolb being one of those basically untradeable QBs. With his age, he will be around for a while.

And you won't hear me knock him for losing that job to Vick, there are only about 3 or 4 QBs that would have still kept their start after the way Vick tore it up. Kolb's injury can be argued as a reason not to take him, but I still don't see that.

He's not some rookie we'd have to groom, he's not some re-tread that will hav to be replaced once the team really gets it going. Nobody knows if they did have a deal in place, so we also don't know what we would be giving up.
This lockout will prevent us from discovering this for quite sometime, yay NFL.

 

[JeffGollin]

How would you feel if Seattle landed Kolb and then jettisoned Hasselbeck (whom we'd then sign)?

Also - what do any of you guys know about NE QB Brian Hoyer - said to be highly regarded but below the proverbial radar screen?

 

[Pariah]

How would you feel if Seattle landed Kolb and then jettisoned Hasselbeck (whom we'd then sign)?

Also - what do any of you guys know about NE QB Brian Hoyer - said to be highly regarded but below the proverbial radar screen?

#1 - I'd be okay with it. I think I'd rather sign Hasselbeck then give up too much in a trade for Kolb.

#2 - I'd love to get Hoyer. I'd rather give up less and get an under-the-radar guy than too much for a recognized name.

JMHO

 

[Russ Smith]

It's not valid. If you look at the quote closely you'll see that, if true, it originally was referring to wild HOGS. Wild Hogs are a real problem here in Central Texas and can tear up an entire pasture in one night. People hunt them all the time and its not easy as the hogs are tough hombres.

Some wise guy saw the reference somewhere and thought it would be funny to add Vick and change Hogs to Dogs.

Thanks I kind of figured it was one of those "wiki facts" that just hadn't been challenged yet.

FYI it appears to be gone from his wiki now so someone reported it.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Trading away a 2012 1st rounder carries a lot of risk for anyteam that finished with 5 wins or less last season, for if you trade it away and still stink, then you've just given Philly Andrew Luck (Which may be Reed's hope in the first place.)