Encouraging Kyler Murray Trends

[Dr. Jones]

Amare
Anquan
Kyler

That's my 3 favorite rookie seasons since 1985 in the valley.

 

[kerouac9]

Not my fight but did Jamesis Winston throw for 3,000 yards and rush for 500 yards in his rookie year?

I don’t think so.

NO, he passed for 4000+ yards and rushed for 200+ yards his rookie year. He had a higher QBR (61.1) than Kyler, too. (58.0).

Jameis is still basically the same guy he was as a rookie, but people thought that Jameis was going to take a HUGE step forward after that year.

 

[TheCardFan]

If we didn't have Kyler Murray...there would be some very interesting posts on Jameis Winston as our QB in 2020.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

Jameis Winston is a gift from the "bad QBs god" to us fans.

As a neutral fan of the bucs I kept finding myself putting the bucs game on the 3rd TV in the corner. (I live with buddies from college so we've got an A+ degenerate football living room).

Jameis is hands down the most entertaining QB out there. Is it a 60 yard TD throw or is it a pick six? every snap is a roller coaster and I love it. Bruce needs to be careful with his heart around Jameis.

 

[Solar7]

Not my fight but did Jamesis Winston throw for 3,000 yards and rush for 500 yards in his rookie year?

I don’t think so.

See K9’s reply.

He also had 28 total TDs and only 15 picks. Kyler 24 and 12.

They are very comparable rookie seasons. Jameis’ might be slightly better, but they’re both very good. But here we are 5 years later and they’re not sure if he’s the right fit.

 

[PACardsFan]

Just amazing that we still have people on this board trying to compare Jameis Winston to Murray. Wow! I don’t really care what his rookie numbers looked like. All he’s done is regress because he’s a friggin headcase. With Murray, he’s only scratched the surface. Jameis’s football IQ would maybe match the overall IQ of my left testicle. Maybe.

 

[Solar7]

Just amazing that we still have people on this board trying to compare Jameis Winston to Murray. Wow! I don’t really care what his rookie numbers looked like. All he’s done is regress because he’s a friggin headcase. With Murray, he’s only scratched the surface. Jameis’s football IQ would maybe match the overall IQ of my left testicle. Maybe.

Freaking revisionist history, man. That's all it is.

Kyler's good. I like him, I want him to succeed, and he's got tons of potential. But you keep pretending he's already made it. This is what people said about Jameis, RG3, Mariota, many young players with potential. Jameis basically outplayed or matched Kyler in his rookie year. There's still an argument about who the best rookie QB is, much less if Kyler's arrived. I can't even explain how frustrating this continues to be to me -- and even though they don't post here, people I explain the KM love to that are big NFL fans as a whole.

I won't debate that he's the best rookie QB the Cardinals have ever had. But the same people who say he's perfect and the rest of us need to be ecstatic about him seem to keep saying he needs an elite WR to perform. That everything he didn't manage to do is somehow his fault. He's a rookie! He gets the chance to develop! But he's not "only scratching the surface," or worth insulting a guy like Jameis over. You're pretending you know the future off of one good rookie campaign.

Many modern era QBs have come in and produced near what Kyler has, and then have found themselves knee deep in the conversation of "should we keep them or not."

Insulting other QBs who have produced similarly doesn't help your cause.

 

[gimpy]

SMH

 

[slanidrac16]

SMH

Kind of like taking a bite of delicious steak but doubt the next bite could be as good.

 

[Solar7]

Kind of like taking a bite of delicious steak but doubt the next bite could be as good.

Or getting a great steak at Applebee's once and finding out on your next visit it's just as inconsistent as your friend said.

 

[juza76]

Freaking revisionist history, man. That's all it is.

Kyler's good. I like him, I want him to succeed, and he's got tons of potential. But you keep pretending he's already made it. This is what people said about Jameis, RG3, Mariota, many young players with potential. Jameis basically outplayed or matched Kyler in his rookie year. There's still an argument about who the best rookie QB is, much less if Kyler's arrived. I can't even explain how frustrating this continues to be to me -- and even though they don't post here, people I explain the KM love to that are big NFL fans as a whole.

I won't debate that he's the best rookie QB the Cardinals have ever had. But the same people who say he's perfect and the rest of us need to be ecstatic about him seem to keep saying he needs an elite WR to perform. That everything he didn't manage to do is somehow his fault. He's a rookie! He gets the chance to develop! But he's not "only scratching the surface," or worth insulting a guy like Jameis over. You're pretending you know the future off of one good rookie campaign.

Many modern era QBs have come in and produced near what Kyler has, and then have found themselves knee deep in the conversation of "should we keep them or not."

Insulting other QBs who have produced similarly doesn't help your cause.

Lol, u know how to irritate some posters here

Just amazing that we still have people on this board trying to compare Jameis Winston to Murray. Wow! I don’t really care what his rookie numbers looked like. All he’s done is regress because he’s a friggin headcase. With Murray, he’s only scratched the surface. Jameis’s football IQ would maybe match the overall IQ of my left testicle. Maybe.

Beside the stats and just from a talent standpoint they are not really comparable, the way Murray throw the ball, the spiral, the velocity, the accuracy, not close

 

[SoonerLou]

NO, he passed for 4000+ yards and rushed for 200+ yards his rookie year. He had a higher QBR (61.1) than Kyler, too. (58.0).

Jameis is still basically the same guy he was as a rookie, but people thought that Jameis was going to take a HUGE step forward after that year.

You forgot Jameis made the Pro Bowl as well

Overall I don't think we differ much on the performance Kyler. My main point was that I think he had less to work with than those guys and wasn't far off to being as productive. There's enough threads on here about wrs, oline and defense...
I'd be curious what his #s pre hamstring were compared to after as well.

Still Jameis is valid because being close/good your first year doesn't guarantee success. Because I would have swore he'd be a top 10 QB based on how he played his rookie year. Jameis was given more weapons (Godwin, Howard, Desean Jackson fo a couple years) and still never took a step.
Disagree with Pac on Jameis football IQ. He is actually very footbll smart. He's just a guy who thinks he has Mahomes or Favre's arm/talent when he clearly does not.

Time will tell if Kyler's game grows or not.

 

[SoonerLou]

High praise from AQ....although could be angling for that contract.

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[Solar7]

Lol, u know how to irritate some posters here

Beside the stats and just from a talent standpoint they are not really comparable, the way Murray throw the ball, the spiral, the velocity, the accuracy, not close

I get irritated too. I still love the team, hopefully you know that.

We have a language barrier so I think you miss some of what I say. Kyler has a lot of potential. So did Winston when he was a rookie. I get frustrated when people say he's already so good we don't have to worry about it. Kyler needs solid teammates and more around him to grow. And he needs to grow. He's not a top 5 or 10 QB yet.

 

[TJ]

Just amazing that we still have people on this board trying to compare Jameis Winston to Murray. Wow! I don’t really care what his rookie numbers looked like. All he’s done is regress because he’s a friggin headcase. With Murray, he’s only scratched the surface. Jameis’s football IQ would maybe match the overall IQ of my left testicle. Maybe.

And if Kyler doesn’t make a jump his sophomore season, then what does that have to say about Kyler? You should care because that could be the difference between having a Lamar Jackson versus a Jameis Winston. The sophomore season will be pivotal. People were already engraving Mayfield’s name in the MVP trophy this time last season and today, he’s a subaverage QB.

 

[juza76]

I get irritated too. I still love the team, hopefully you know that.

We have a language barrier so I think you miss some of what I say. Kyler has a lot of potential. So did Winston when he was a rookie. I get frustrated when people say he's already so good we don't have to worry about it. Kyler needs solid teammates and more around him to grow. And he needs to grow. He's not a top 5 or 10 QB yet.

I didn't miss anything
After u realized many here were tired of the negativity of your posts towards Murray u changed your approach making not very convincingly praise but substantially u still don't like the player and it seems u can't wait for him to fail

 

[PACardsFan]

You forgot Jameis made the Pro Bowl as well

Overall I don't think we differ much on the performance Kyler. My main point was that I think he had less to work with than those guys and wasn't far off to being as productive. There's enough threads on here about wrs, oline and defense...
I'd be curious what his #s pre hamstring were compared to after as well.

Still Jameis is valid because being close/good your first year doesn't guarantee success. Because I would have swore he'd be a top 10 QB based on how he played his rookie year. Jameis was given more weapons (Godwin, Howard, Desean Jackson fo a couple years) and still never took a step.
Disagree with Pac on Jameis football IQ. He is actually very footbll smart. He's just a guy who thinks he has Mahomes or Favre's arm/talent when he clearly does not.

Time will tell if Kyler's game grows or not.

Completely disagree on the football and/or general IQ aspect of Jameis. No one is questioning his physical ability to throw a football. He consistently throws into coverages that by now he should be able to recognize. If he's throwing picks because he has the gunslinger mentality of a Favre/Mahomes, then his general IQ comes into play. On top of that, how many times in his career have we seen him almost come to blows with teammates on the sideline? Finally, what's with the need to compare these 2 guys?? The only thing they have in common is the color of their skin. Something is very wrong when a veteran QB throws 30 interceptions in a season. And I refuse to compare our stud rookie QB to someone that lacks maturity both on and off the field.

 

[PACardsFan]

And if Kyler doesn’t make a jump his sophomore season, then what does that have to say about Kyler? You should care because that could be the difference between having a Lamar Jackson versus a Jameis Winston. The sophomore season will be pivotal. People were already engraving Mayfield’s name in the MVP trophy this time last season and today, he’s a subaverage QB.

Why in the hell do we want to insinuate that Murray will go backwards in year 2??? I don't get that. Just because Jameis & Mayfield did, doesn't make it so that KM will. None of us have a crystal ball, but Murray is a much different animal than Jameis & Mayfield. I've elaborated enough on Jameis. I follow the Browns closely. Their OL is much worse than ours, if that's even possible. Mayfield doesn't have the escapeability that Murray has, so he's more reliant on having a clean pocket than KM is. KM is a hard working, success driven kid. No one will outwork him. If he could play as well as he did with the below average talent around him this year, then I fully expect him to continue to improve as we put more offensive & defensive talent around him in year 2.

 

[slanidrac16]

Or getting a great steak at Applebee's once and finding out on your next visit it's just as inconsistent as your friend said.

That’s why you don’t go to Josh Rosen’s steakhouse! Lol.

 

[slanidrac16]

I get irritated too. I still love the team, hopefully you know that.

We have a language barrier so I think you miss some of what I say. Kyler has a lot of potential. So did Winston when he was a rookie. I get frustrated when people say he's already so good we don't have to worry about it. Kyler needs solid teammates and more around him to grow. And he needs to grow. He's not a top 5 or 10 QB yet.

See, here is the problem.
1. Some people say Kyler is very good and maybe.....
2.some people say Kyler is good, but....
3.and a few people say Kyler is good and is going to the HOF.

I fall in the category 1. You fall in category 2.

 

[slanidrac16]

Why in the hell do we want to insinuate that Murray will go backwards in year 2??? I don't get that. Just because Jameis & Mayfield did, doesn't make it so that KM will. None of us have a crystal ball, but Murray is a much different animal than Jameis & Mayfield. I've elaborated enough on Jameis. I follow the Browns closely. Their OL is much worse than ours, if that's even possible. Mayfield doesn't have the escapeability that Murray has, so he's more reliant on having a clean pocket than KM is. KM is a hard working, success driven kid. No one will outwork him. If he could play as well as he did with the below average talent around him this year, then I fully expect him to continue to improve as we put more offensive & defensive talent around him in year 2.

Lamar improved. Josh Allen improved. There is proof Kyler can improve.

 

[kerouac9]

Lamar improved. Josh Allen improved. There is proof Kyler can improve.

That's not proof. That's evidence.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Freaking revisionist history, man. That's all it is.

Kyler's good. I like him, I want him to succeed, and he's got tons of potential. But you keep pretending he's already made it. This is what people said about Jameis, RG3, Mariota, many young players with potential. Jameis basically outplayed or matched Kyler in his rookie year. There's still an argument about who the best rookie QB is, much less if Kyler's arrived. I can't even explain how frustrating this continues to be to me -- and even though they don't post here, people I explain the KM love to that are big NFL fans as a whole.

Totally disagree with the bolded portion. I think he was the best rookie QB this season and I think most of the analytics (advanced and standard) back up that assertion.

And if Kyler doesn’t make a jump his sophomore season, then what does that have to say about Kyler? You should care because that could be the difference between having a Lamar Jackson versus a Jameis Winston. The sophomore season will be pivotal. People were already engraving Mayfield’s name in the MVP trophy this time last season and today, he’s a subaverage QB.

I agree...... this offseason is critical from a developmental standpoint.

Where I may break off is that this season will determine it. Personally, Kyler has played a lot less football since High School at this point in his life than Jameis, RG3, or MM did.

I think he has till year three...... TWO FULL off-seasons, before we can make any sort of true judgments about his future prospects.

But he needs to make LEAPS in both measurement periods...... I think he is capable, but it's not on me...... It's on him.

That's not proof. That's evidence.

Circumstantial Evidence no less.

The proof lies in the interpretation of his measurable progress as the season progressed. And I feel both sides of the argument will have stuff to back up their point of view right now.

 

[slanidrac16]

That's not proof. That's evidence.

Not claiming it’s proof. It is proof it CAN be done.

 

[GatorAZ]

Agree with Dr. Jones we need to see 3+ seasons before knowing if he’s the guy. Guys like Trubisky and Mariota took a huge leap in year two then flamed out. Mariota threw 26TD/9INT and won a playoff game in year two and everyone thought he was the man for Tennessee. A few years later and he’s holding a clipboard...