Fire Robert Sarver

BC867

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i believe the league might eventually put some pressure on Sarver
but, ultimately, selling will have to be his decision

i agree with the consensus -- that another Sarver picked GM or coach is a band-aid on a chronic illness, but those are the only realistic talking points.
Even if he is just stripped of his title of MANAGING General Partner, that could help.

That being said, maybe not. The rest of the owners are Sarver's boys. There is nothing to say that the next MANAGING General Partner would be any better.

Especially if he is a shill for Sarver.

So . . . never mind! :)
 

SirStefan32

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This is all a pipe dream. Foolishness. Sarver is not going to be removed. Suns' only hope is to start winning games. They need a point guard, another 2-3 NBA-level players, youngsters to develop and stay healthy.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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This is all a pipe dream. Foolishness. Sarver is not going to be removed. Suns' only hope is to start winning games. They need a point guard, another 2-3 NBA-level players, youngsters to develop and stay healthy.
They need to hang on to their coach, give him some more talent to work with and hope that Koko is the real deal. At a minimum they need to keep him through the season and make some in season trades to try and balance out the roster a little more. If he shows that he can't turn the team around after that than it might be time to start looking for another coach. That is only the case if the Suns actually do something to get more talent soon though.
 

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There is no way that the league is going to step in simply because Sarver is a terrible judge of talent and sucks at his job. He hasn't done anything that other owners don't regularly do also. He's not the first to be involved with the hiring process for coaches, scouts, players, general managers, and many other positions that a team needs to fill. His moves often suck but that doesn't mean he wasn't allowed to make them. Hoping, waiting, or asking for league intervention simply because we suck is a bit ridiculous. I want the Suns to win just as bad as anyone else but the league won't step in make us a contender.

Can you imagine how other owners would react to the league giving us some sort of competitive advantage? That's what is being called for, essentially, because no rules have been broken. If they were to step in it would be because our decision makers suck and they'll appoint better people to those roles. It's not the leagues responsibility to make sure all teams can compete. There are various rules in place to even the playing field but if a team is consistently bad because they make bad decisions in free agency and hiring coaches and front office staff, there isn't anything they can do, nor should they interfere. If the Lakers were as bad as we are and their fans were calling for Silver to step in and help them I bet 90% of the people asking for the league to step in now would be up in arms over how they're sore losers and need to reap what they sow. The league may not want to see a team with a rich history become an embarrassment but since we reach the minimum salary floor and hire people who appear qualified for their positions there isn't anything they can do.

People need to give up this idea that the league will step in and save the day. It's not going to happen unless Sarver actually breaks league rules or is caught being a bigot or misogynistic a-hole and it tarnishes the league's image as a whole, like with Donald Sterling. There has always been bad teams in the league though and there always will be. The Suns are one of those bad teams now, it sucks for us fans but there isn't a quick fix. If it wasn't us then it would be someone else and we'd all be mocking their fanbase for trying to appeal to the commissioner to save them.
 

JCSunsfan

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There is no way that the league is going to step in simply because Sarver is a terrible judge of talent and sucks at his job. He hasn't done anything that other owners don't regularly do also. He's not the first to be involved with the hiring process for coaches, scouts, players, general managers, and many other positions that a team needs to fill. His moves often suck but that doesn't mean he wasn't allowed to make them. Hoping, waiting, or asking for league intervention simply because we suck is a bit ridiculous. I want the Suns to win just as bad as anyone else but the league won't step in make us a contender.

Can you imagine how other owners would react to the league giving us some sort of competitive advantage? That's what is being called for, essentially, because no rules have been broken. If they were to step in it would be because our decision makers suck and they'll appoint better people to those roles. It's not the leagues responsibility to make sure all teams can compete. There are various rules in place to even the playing field but if a team is consistently bad because they make bad decisions in free agency and hiring coaches and front office staff, there isn't anything they can do, nor should they interfere. If the Lakers were as bad as we are and their fans were calling for Silver to step in and help them I bet 90% of the people asking for the league to step in now would be up in arms over how they're sore losers and need to reap what they sow. The league may not want to see a team with a rich history become an embarrassment but since we reach the minimum salary floor and hire people who appear qualified for their positions there isn't anything they can do.

People need to give up this idea that the league will step in and save the day. It's not going to happen unless Sarver actually breaks league rules or is caught being a bigot or misogynistic a-hole and it tarnishes the league's image as a whole, like with Donald Sterling. There has always been bad teams in the league though and there always will be. The Suns are one of those bad teams now, it sucks for us fans but there isn't a quick fix. If it wasn't us then it would be someone else and we'd all be mocking their fanbase for trying to appeal to the commissioner to save them.
They stepped in with Philly.
 

AzStevenCal

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They stepped in with Philly.

It wasn't anything even remotely similar to what's going on Phoenix. It had more to do with money and the fact Hinkie wasn't willing to spend anything on veterans, he just lived with the "fines" for under-spending. He had reportedly alienated most of the agents too although I'm not exactly sure why that was a concern for the league office. And they didn't force it on the team as I understand it, they recommended it to the ownership who agreed to it. The front office didn't even fire Hinkie, he got pissed and quit. Maybe the writing was on the wall and him being forced out was inevitable but we'll never really know (probably).
 
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They stepped in with Philly.

Steve responded to that nicely. The leagues involvement in Philly was different. Hinkie made it very clear that they were intentionally tanking in an effort to land stars in the draft. They had no intention of fielding a competitive team. Their team was built to be bad, ours was built by someone who was bad at his job, there's a difference. We weren't built to lose and get a high lottery pick, again. I don't believe we've entered any season since McD was hired with the intention of getting a high lottery pick outside of that very first season where we went on to surprise everyone. Even then, we didn't tank like Philly did. We had some veterans on that roster. It just so happened that all of our talent was better than anticipated when given the opportunity to play, which a number of the players that year didn't really have before.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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There is no way that the league is going to step in simply because Sarver is a terrible judge of talent and sucks at his job. He hasn't done anything that other owners don't regularly do also. He's not the first to be involved with the hiring process for coaches, scouts, players, general managers, and many other positions that a team needs to fill. His moves often suck but that doesn't mean he wasn't allowed to make them. Hoping, waiting, or asking for league intervention simply because we suck is a bit ridiculous. I want the Suns to win just as bad as anyone else but the league won't step in make us a contender.

Can you imagine how other owners would react to the league giving us some sort of competitive advantage? That's what is being called for, essentially, because no rules have been broken. If they were to step in it would be because our decision makers suck and they'll appoint better people to those roles. It's not the leagues responsibility to make sure all teams can compete. There are various rules in place to even the playing field but if a team is consistently bad because they make bad decisions in free agency and hiring coaches and front office staff, there isn't anything they can do, nor should they interfere. If the Lakers were as bad as we are and their fans were calling for Silver to step in and help them I bet 90% of the people asking for the league to step in now would be up in arms over how they're sore losers and need to reap what they sow. The league may not want to see a team with a rich history become an embarrassment but since we reach the minimum salary floor and hire people who appear qualified for their positions there isn't anything they can do.

People need to give up this idea that the league will step in and save the day. It's not going to happen unless Sarver actually breaks league rules or is caught being a bigot or misogynistic a-hole and it tarnishes the league's image as a whole, like with Donald Sterling. There has always been bad teams in the league though and there always will be. The Suns are one of those bad teams now, it sucks for us fans but there isn't a quick fix. If it wasn't us then it would be someone else and we'd all be mocking their fanbase for trying to appeal to the commissioner to save them.
This. All day this.
 

1Sun

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There is no way that the league is going to step in simply because Sarver is a terrible judge of talent and sucks at his job. He hasn't done anything that other owners don't regularly do also. He's not the first to be involved with the hiring process for coaches, scouts, players, general managers, and many other positions that a team needs to fill. His moves often suck but that doesn't mean he wasn't allowed to make them. Hoping, waiting, or asking for league intervention simply because we suck is a bit ridiculous. I want the Suns to win just as bad as anyone else but the league won't step in make us a contender.

Can you imagine how other owners would react to the league giving us some sort of competitive advantage? That's what is being called for, essentially, because no rules have been broken. If they were to step in it would be because our decision makers suck and they'll appoint better people to those roles. It's not the leagues responsibility to make sure all teams can compete. There are various rules in place to even the playing field but if a team is consistently bad because they make bad decisions in free agency and hiring coaches and front office staff, there isn't anything they can do, nor should they interfere. If the Lakers were as bad as we are and their fans were calling for Silver to step in and help them I bet 90% of the people asking for the league to step in now would be up in arms over how they're sore losers and need to reap what they sow. The league may not want to see a team with a rich history become an embarrassment but since we reach the minimum salary floor and hire people who appear qualified for their positions there isn't anything they can do.

People need to give up this idea that the league will step in and save the day. It's not going to happen unless Sarver actually breaks league rules or is caught being a bigot or misogynistic a-hole and it tarnishes the league's image as a whole, like with Donald Sterling. There has always been bad teams in the league though and there always will be. The Suns are one of those bad teams now, it sucks for us fans but there isn't a quick fix. If it wasn't us then it would be someone else and we'd all be mocking their fanbase for trying to appeal to the commissioner to save them.

Unless it turns out we now have an acting GM who is working more in the interest of our arch-rival for the sake of his friend than in the interest of his own team, and the Managing General Partner of the owner does nothing about it...
 

Hoop Head

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Unless it turns out we now have an acting GM who is working more in the interest of our arch-rival for the sake of his friend than in the interest of his own team, and the Managing General Partner of the owner does nothing about it...

If Adam Silver had his way all GM's would be helping Lebron somehow. He doesn't care about a player like Chandler being bought out and signing with the Lakers. Like with Cousins signing with the Warriors, there are 28 other teams in the league that could have offered the Suns something for Chandler or offered Chandler a better contract but they didn't. Unless someone has clear cut evidence of under the table deals there won't be anything done.

No one seemed to have an issue until Tyson showed he had more in the tank than he displayed in Phoenix. Of course it looks like that when you see highlights on ESPN or selectively posted on Twitter. Look at the stats themselves and it's virtually the same with a slight increase in rebounds because he's seeing the floor almost twice the amount he was here. How many people have watched a Laker game where they're not playing the Suns though? I would guess no one that is complaining about Chandler being cut to help the Lakers since his numbers are essentially the same. I know he had a couple of plays in this first couple of games where he showed a lot of energy but energy doesn't always equal positive production, see Josh Jackson for evidence of that. Compare the stats between here and LA this year and he hasn't played better, he's shooting worse there and rebounding a little more but actually his rebound rate is down since he's seeing almost twice the amount of playing time but only 2 more rebounds.

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He hasn't improved in LA either if you compare the brief numbers this season between his time as a Sun and Laker. He's averaging more minutes in LA now but that's pretty much it. In 7 games in Phoenix he averaged 12.7 minutes a game to go with 3.7 ppg, 5.6 rpg, and 0.1 block all while shooting 66% from the field. As a Laker in 16 games he's averaging 21.1 minutes to go with 3.6 ppg, 7.6 rpg, and 0.4 blocks all while shooting 55% from the field. So almost twice the playing time and he's grabbing 2 more rebounds and his shooting dropped by 10%.

I don't think Tyson was giving 100% here but I didn't need to see him as a Laker to believe that. For some reason Tyson gets less blame for signing with the Lakers and not playing hard in Phoenix than James Jones, Sarver, Lebron, and McD, even though McD was already fired when Tyson was bought out. Could Chandler have brought back something in a trade? Maybe, but I'm not so sure that's an easy yes or no question. He was in the final year of a deal that was paying $13.8 million this year. That's a considerable cap hit that isn't easy for a contender to swallow. It's much harder for a contender to take that on while sending out a player that wouldn't hurt our cap situation beyond this year. No one wanted to take on additional salary to dump Chandler either so what options did we have? Let him continue playing while fans want him sat since he has no future here, but that would keep his value somewhat decent until a trade can be found, or sit him and hope a team decides to trade for a guy who has been in the league 18 years that isn't playing on the worst team in the league? If he didn't suffer from lots of injuries then sitting him might have been ok but for how long? No one wanted to see him end his career glued to our bench. It's likely he would've been bought out after the trade deadline anyways, waiving him now expedited all that.

If Lebron wasn't a Laker then I doubt Suns fan talk about Chandler for more than a week after he got waived. Suns fans hate the Lakers and seeing them benefit from a player we waived isn't fun but no one wanted Chandler to get meaningful minutes here because there was no future for him as a Sun. He was over the hill and not producing as a Sun this season. He should have been waived in the offseason but he wasn't, maybe we could have found a trade but we don't know if McD tried or not. I think he did, I doubt a trade for Chandler was declined by us so long as it didn't hurt out cap in the future. I can't see Sarver veto'ing McD's trade involving Chandler and then allowing James Jones to waive him 2 weeks into the season. Sarver is an idiot but a scenario like that is too hard to swallow. If Sarver was fine with buying him out so soon then we should have done it sooner but we didn't, for some reason, and it was highly unlikely someone would have traded for him so early in the season anyways so waiving him before the season started should have been the route taken if we weren't willing to wait it out until the trade deadline to see if a trade would materialize for him.

The Suns were in a no win situation with Chandler because they didn't trade him well before this season. That's on McD, not James Jones, not Lebron, and not Sarver. It may partly be Sarver's fault but we don't know for certain. If real evidence comes out of James Jones colluding with Lebron or that Sarver vetoed a trade for Chandler, then we have something to talk about but until that's produced it doesn't help us to pine over what Chandler could have been on our bench.
 

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1Sun

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If Adam Silver had his way all GM's would be helping Lebron somehow. He doesn't care about a player like Chandler being bought out and signing with the Lakers. Like with Cousins signing with the Warriors, there are 28 other teams in the league that could have offered the Suns something for Chandler or offered Chandler a better contract but they didn't. Unless someone has clear cut evidence of under the table deals there won't be anything done.

No one seemed to have an issue until Tyson showed he had more in the tank than he displayed in Phoenix. Of course it looks like that when you see highlights on ESPN or selectively posted on Twitter. Look at the stats themselves and it's virtually the same with a slight increase in rebounds because he's seeing the floor almost twice the amount he was here. How many people have watched a Laker game where they're not playing the Suns though? I would guess no one that is complaining about Chandler being cut to help the Lakers since his numbers are essentially the same. I know he had a couple of plays in this first couple of games where he showed a lot of energy but energy doesn't always equal positive production, see Josh Jackson for evidence of that. Compare the stats between here and LA this year and he hasn't played better, he's shooting worse there and rebounding a little more but actually his rebound rate is down since he's seeing almost twice the amount of playing time but only 2 more rebounds.

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He hasn't improved in LA either if you compare the brief numbers this season between his time as a Sun and Laker. He's averaging more minutes in LA now but that's pretty much it. In 7 games in Phoenix he averaged 12.7 minutes a game to go with 3.7 ppg, 5.6 rpg, and 0.1 block all while shooting 66% from the field. As a Laker in 16 games he's averaging 21.1 minutes to go with 3.6 ppg, 7.6 rpg, and 0.4 blocks all while shooting 55% from the field. So almost twice the playing time and he's grabbing 2 more rebounds and his shooting dropped by 10%.

I don't think Tyson was giving 100% here but I didn't need to see him as a Laker to believe that. For some reason Tyson gets less blame for signing with the Lakers and not playing hard in Phoenix than James Jones, Sarver, Lebron, and McD, even though McD was already fired when Tyson was bought out. Could Chandler have brought back something in a trade? Maybe, but I'm not so sure that's an easy yes or no question. He was in the final year of a deal that was paying $13.8 million this year. That's a considerable cap hit that isn't easy for a contender to swallow. It's much harder for a contender to take that on while sending out a player that wouldn't hurt our cap situation beyond this year. No one wanted to take on additional salary to dump Chandler either so what options did we have? Let him continue playing while fans want him sat since he has no future here, but that would keep his value somewhat decent until a trade can be found, or sit him and hope a team decides to trade for a guy who has been in the league 18 years that isn't playing on the worst team in the league? If he didn't suffer from lots of injuries then sitting him might have been ok but for how long? No one wanted to see him end his career glued to our bench. It's likely he would've been bought out after the trade deadline anyways, waiving him now expedited all that.

If Lebron wasn't a Laker then I doubt Suns fan talk about Chandler for more than a week after he got waived. Suns fans hate the Lakers and seeing them benefit from a player we waived isn't fun but no one wanted Chandler to get meaningful minutes here because there was no future for him as a Sun. He was over the hill and not producing as a Sun this season. He should have been waived in the offseason but he wasn't, maybe we could have found a trade but we don't know if McD tried or not. I think he did, I doubt a trade for Chandler was declined by us so long as it didn't hurt out cap in the future. I can't see Sarver veto'ing McD's trade involving Chandler and then allowing James Jones to waive him 2 weeks into the season. Sarver is an idiot but a scenario like that is too hard to swallow. If Sarver was fine with buying him out so soon then we should have done it sooner but we didn't, for some reason, and it was highly unlikely someone would have traded for him so early in the season anyways so waiving him before the season started should have been the route taken if we weren't willing to wait it out until the trade deadline to see if a trade would materialize for him.

The Suns were in a no win situation with Chandler because they didn't trade him well before this season. That's on McD, not James Jones, not Lebron, and not Sarver. It may partly be Sarver's fault but we don't know for certain. If real evidence comes out of James Jones colluding with Lebron or that Sarver vetoed a trade for Chandler, then we have something to talk about but until that's produced it doesn't help us to pine over what Chandler could have been on our bench.

For the reasons you state here, I have been more than willing to let the Chandler issue go. But if James Jones gives them a second player, it becomes impossible for me to discount the probability of collusion.
 

1Sun

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Yikes. I know this guy personally, and he doesn't talk for the sake of talking. This is a very serious tweet. I wonder to what new information he is referring...
 

Willie D

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PBJ article from last Friday certainly implied this is no fait accompli

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix...nix-reach-deal-to-renovate-talking-stick.html

Even funnier, an earlier Journal article had The Sarverfish complaining that the Suns' shittteh record.is due, in part, to old facilities. So "If I had a better arena we'd.win more." This is the old banker's dilemma--business borrower is broke but goes.to the bank and boldly says, Well if you give me more money, I can fix the problems.
 

BC867

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Just to complete the results of my letter writing campaign to Sarver's co-owners, Adam Silver and Jerry Colangelo, I received a response from "Bill" in NBA Fan Relations.

As expected, his response read, in part, "We will keep in mind your perspective as we move forward." Uh, Bill, I'd rather see our Suns move forward.

At least, Jerry had the courtesy to wish a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.

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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Just to complete the results of my letter writing campaign to Sarver's co-owners, Adam Silver and Jerry Colangelo, I received a response from "Bill" in NBA Fan Relations.

As expected, his response read, in part, "We will keep in mind your perspective as we move forward." Uh, Bill, I'd rather see our Suns move forward.

At least, Jerry had the courtesy to wish a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.

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I’m just amazed you received a personalized response.
 

BC867

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I Finally Get It

If I were an editorial writer with AzCentral.com/AzRepublic, here is what I'd write.

When Robert Sarver waved his #1 foam finger in the stands after having led the group that purchased the Suns from Jerry Colangelo and his group, he wasn't saying that the Suns were (or would be) #1.

If he waved the finger today, it would be that the Suns are #30 (out of 30). That is a lot of other fingers to lift in the air, with our Suns at the bottom of the NBA.

Or that Phoenix or Arizona would be his #1. Sarver divested himself of his Tucson business and purchased banks in San Diego. That is his #1.

No, I think that his 'I'm #1' finger was saying to Jerry and the people of Arizona that he -- Robert Sarver -- was now #1. The sooner he could force Jerry out, the better. And rub his nose in it.

Jerry was an excellent marketing man. That is how he began his career in Chicago. And, in the Valley, he was a key member of The Phoenix 40, who made all of the business decisions for the Valley, not the politicians. Jerry was dedicated to his adopted City and State for a long time.

Yes, Robert Sarver waving his #1 finger denoted that he is #1. Not the Suns. Or its fans. Not Phoenix. Nor Arizona. And, sure enough, that is how it has worked out.

Jerry Colangelo works for the 76ers. And when it comes to the running the Phoenix Suns into the ground (for his profit), Robert Sarver is #1. No one else.

That would be my editorial. 'Anyone care to comment?

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BC867

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Whole post based on one incident 15 years ago. You should really let it go.

You missed the metaphor, Chap. When I criticize Sarver waving the foam finger, I am criticizing everything that has followed for all these years.

From the start, #1 for him evidently didn't mean the Suns. It meant that Sarver was now #1. Not Jerry, who was a solid part of our community.

It has doomed the team and its fans ever since. For cripes sake, look at the results. He is an out-of-State banker destroying our basketball team.

I don't want to see the Valley of the Sun lose it first professional team and a Phoenix institution. Or, at best, see our team regarded as a laughingstock.

Other than during rush hour, I can be at Talking Stick Arena in 15 minutes from NE Phoenix. No, Chap, from my perspective, I don't want to let it go!
 

Chaplin

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You missed the metaphor, Chap. When I criticize Sarver waving the foam finger, I am criticizing everything that has followed for all these years.

From the start, #1 for him evidently didn't mean the Suns. It meant that Sarver was now #1. Not Jerry, who was a solid part of our community.

It has doomed the team and its fans ever since. For cripes sake, look at the results. He is an out-of-State banker destroying our basketball team.

I don't want to see the Valley of the Sun lose it first professional team and a Phoenix institution. Or, at best, see our team regarded as a laughingstock.

Other than during rush hour, I can be at Talking Stick Arena in 15 minutes from NE Phoenix. No, Chap, from my perspective, I don't want to let it go!
Look, there is PLENTY of things that can be used as ammunition against Robert Sarver. In the giant box of ammunition filled with armor-piercing bullets, Sarver waving a foam finger 15 years ago is the Nerf pellet at the bottom of the box with a hole in it. To me, it's not even worthy of being "bad" anymore. We all know 100% that if he's anything, he definitely is a fan of the team. So he was a little over-exuberant back when he was a first-time owner. So what? Even if you want to use that as him being unprofessional, it's pretty weak, because today he's professional enough.

His problem today isn't that he's a fan of the team, it's that he has no idea how the league and sport actually works.
 

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Look, there is PLENTY of things that can be used as ammunition against Robert Sarver. In the giant box of ammunition filled with armor-piercing bullets, Sarver waving a foam finger 15 years ago is the Nerf pellet at the bottom of the box with a hole in it. To me, it's not even worthy of being "bad" anymore. We all know 100% that if he's anything, he definitely is a fan of the team. So he was a little over-exuberant back when he was a first-time owner. So what? Even if you want to use that as him being unprofessional, it's pretty weak, because today he's professional enough.

His problem today isn't that he's a fan of the team, it's that he has no idea how the league and sport actually works.
Excellent explanation.
 

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I’d like to see more of this at Suns games

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StreetTruckinTitan

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Unless a new investment group approaches Saver & Co with a $1B Im afraid fans are stuck with this fiasco.
 

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